Stellaris Dev Diary #101 - Marauders, Pirates and the Horde

[Jim Starluck]

Once this happens, the Marauder empire becomes a Horde, and will begin expanding in all directions, claiming empty systems and sending fleets to destroy the Starbases of any empire that will not submit to the Khan.

Just to clarify, does this supercede the earlier Dev Diary about Starbases being indestructible but conquerable? As in, the Horde actually CAN destroy them? Or do they just conquer them like everyone else does?

Also, suggestion re: pirates spawning: perhaps, in addition to needing an unclaimed system to spawn in, they should also need a system not visible to the sensors of any empire? A little more like Civ-style Barbarians in certain regards.

So endless pirates and a Mongol horde. Basically EU and CK in space.

No, no, you're doing it wrong. Lemme show you how it's done:

So endless pirates and a Mongol horde. Basically EU and CK... INNNNN SPAAAAAAAAACE!!

 

[Orkonkel]

I neeeeed 2.0.

 

[terrycloth]

I havent seen this question anyway so...

If you as a player have the civic Barbaric Despoilers,

1. you go and capture some slaves.. what happens if you capture those slaves less than 20% habitability, due to their own traits, civics, different habitability preference.. Does it mean they are useless as slaves? It could possble result in very unhappy slaves, because except being slaves, the planet does not suit them (tropical vs artic).
2. Where do initially captured slaves go.. are they assigned automatically or do you assign them? If automatically, they may go to planet unsuited for them.
3. If there is no space in your planets.
4. Using raiding bombardment stance, do I correct understand, that they disregard fortress and defensive armies on the planet?
5. Any info on the Despoilation Casus Beli?

If 1 mean you have very very unhappy slaves, then Barbaric Despoilers, is not as great as it seems.

Why do you care if your slaves are happy? It doesn't affect their productivity. Default chattel slavery usually ends up with a lot of zero-happiness slaves anyway.

 

[JosunUrashima]

I think it's something Stellaris needs to either fix or address somehow. Strategy is about accepting tradeoffs and making zero-sum decisions based on limited resources. It's why chess only lets you move one piece at a time. Piece movement becomes a very scarce resource that you have to maximize. It's a balancing act that I think Stellaris hasn't quite hit yet (but, of course, all comments are pre-2.0, into which the developers are clearly pouring a lot of thought).

Personally, I love the idea of critical resources in Stellaris. I've always thought it would be a good idea. Your description is exactly how I'd see it play out. If you have shield resources you go down the road of the Federation, building amazing defensive technology. Without them, maybe armor, etc. I like the idea of having your strategy in part defined by what's available on the game board, with different empires evolving based on what resources they have available.

This also does a great job in other games of driving midgame conflict. If your neighbor suddenly unlocks a powerful resource that you don't have, peace may just no longer be an option. Or that backwater empire might suddenly become a powerhouse.

Oh I would be a very happy camper if this happened! I would love the game more than I already do! Especially as it would be something that could easily affect the sorts of builds ships would have both on your own part and other empires.

PLEASE DEV'S! Introduce critical resources!


(though it should be noted with the presence of Special Resources this is something one could do for a mod)

 

[JosunUrashima]

Come here, my son.

It is time.

*hugs the blorg and it's squishy funginess*

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

Oh I would be a very happy camper if this happened! I would love the game more than I already do! Especially as it would be something that could easily affect the sorts of builds ships would have both on your own part and other empires.

PLEASE DEV'S! Introduce critical resources!


(though it should be noted with the presence of Special Resources this is something one could do for a mod)

They had those in an earlier version of Stellaris. They worked exactly as you described, giving bonuses to various things. It didn't really work out, and so they got mostly removed.

(There are still some remnants of these resources around, like Alien Pets and Betharian Stone, but they're nowhere as powerful as they used to be.)

 

[methegrate]

They had those in an earlier version of Stellaris. They worked exactly as you described, giving bonuses to various things. It didn't really work out, and so they got mostly removed.

(There are still some remnants of these resources around, like Alien Pets and Betharian Stone, but they're nowhere as powerful as they used to be.)

That's not the way I understood it.

Right now special resources give a bonus. So lythuric gas gives 20% better shields. (I think that number is correct, but something like that.) Either way, it's a moderate bonus that can be overcome with a somewhat better fleet. That's not bad, but it's not something you build a strategy around either.

I believe the difference between builds is that in previous versions that bonus applied per station. So I'd build a lythuric gas refinery at a specific starport, where in the current build it simply applies across all of my ships.

What I have in mind is the Civilization model. Some resources would give a bonus like current Stellaris. They're differences of degree. Others allow you to build or do things you otherwise couldn't. They're differences of kind. So under this model lythuric gas might be required to build shields at all. Or perhaps required to build advanced shields of any kind. Under this model you make empire-wide decisions around the options that resource opens up, or around the options foreclosed by a lack of resources. It's like coal, iron or oil popping up on the map in Civ. If I want to be an industrial power, I simply have to secure a supply of coal, full stop.

I'm not going to change my strategy around 10% extra hull points, but I will build an empire around the fact that I can build cloaks but not shields. I won't start a war or launch a major diplomatic push around someone getting +20% explosive weapon damage, but I will if my neighbor can suddenly build fighter fleets and I can't. I feel like that's the big difference.

 

[RELee]

Stellaris Team:

And me ladies, if present.

 

[Shachza]

Well, if it were me, I'd fight and glass their disgusting homeworld and declare "Mission Accomplished"!

"You'll only get a hug from when I'm a cold, dead corpse!"

 

[Red_warning]

Mongol tribesmen in spaaaaaace

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

That's not the way I understood it.

Right now special resources give a bonus. So lythuric gas gives 20% better shields. (I think that number is correct, but something like that.) Either way, it's a moderate bonus that can be overcome with a somewhat better fleet. That's not bad, but it's not something you build a strategy around either.

I believe the difference between builds is that in previous versions that bonus applied per station. So I'd build a lythuric gas refinery at a specific starport, where in the current build it simply applies across all of my ships.

What I have in mind is the Civilization model. Some resources would give a bonus like current Stellaris. They're differences of degree. Others allow you to build or do things you otherwise couldn't. They're differences of kind. So under this model lythuric gas might be required to build shields at all. Or perhaps required to build advanced shields of any kind. Under this model you make empire-wide decisions around the options that resource opens up, or around the options foreclosed by a lack of resources. It's like coal, iron or oil popping up on the map in Civ. If I want to be an industrial power, I simply have to secure a supply of coal, full stop.

I'm not going to change my strategy around 10% extra hull points, but I will build an empire around the fact that I can build cloaks but not shields. I won't start a war or launch a major diplomatic push around someone getting +20% explosive weapon damage, but I will if my neighbor can suddenly build fighter fleets and I can't. I feel like that's the big difference.

Yeah, more involved and interesting Strategic Resources would be much better.

 

[newatomicturist]

Except you can build over the fleet cap. Just think of it as administrative costs for having too much military for your empire, or perhaps the military industrial complex corrupting the government when it's too well funded resulting in ever increasing waste.

Yes, I can build over the cap, but it's kind of extremally artificial. There, at least, should be more options to increase the cap. For now, only thing that adds anything worthwhile to NavCap is the basic spaceport, random techs (that may or may not pop up at all) and ascension perk that for some reason gives more NavCap than all spaceports and pops combined multiplied by techs. And then comes 2 planet strong FA with something that seems to be 10000 NavCap, but it isn't. FA may have 500 NC but somehow manages to manage the overstack of 9500 that would kill the economy of the rest of the galaxy combined. Why not make the central planetary facilities (Admin Center, Capital, Emp Complex) generate hard or soft amount of NC as they are supposed to make empire management easier? With warfare focused DLC, the game should become more warfare friendly.

 

[Hertzila]

Yes, I can build over the cap, but it's kind of extremally artificial. There, at least, should be more options to increase the cap. For now, only thing that adds anything worthwhile to NavCap is the basic spaceport, random techs (that may or may not pop up at all) and ascension perk that for some reason gives more NavCap than all spaceports and pops combined multiplied by techs. And then comes 2 planet strong FA with something that seems to be 10000 NavCap, but it isn't. FA may have 500 NC but somehow manages to manage the overstack of 9500 that would kill the economy of the rest of the galaxy combined. Why not make the central planetary facilities (Admin Center, Capital, Emp Complex) generate hard or soft amount of NC as they are supposed to make empire management easier? With warfare focused DLC, the game should become more warfare friendly.

How tiny empires do you usually play with? If the +200 NC Ascension Perk gives you more NC than your spaceports do, you seriously need to work on either your expansion rate or economy. Or you should really increase the galaxy size and play again with more space for expansion.

I just checked and in the last game I have screenshots of (it was a few months ago, before 1.8, but still) I had around 200-300 NC by the time I started blobbing. In the last screenshot, I have well over 1500 NC. I beat the FE with under 700 NC. From memory, most of my games go the same route and I almost never take that +200 NC AP. I also generally have no problem going wildly over my NC if I deem it necessary (and it usually is).

If you're stuck under 200 NC, there's a hitch elsewhere in your plans, be it expansion, economy, or something else. Stellaris is already plenty friendly to warfare, perhaps too friendly. Likewise, Fallen Empires have an absolutely massive fleet because they would be complete pushovers otherwise. They also do have pretty insane resource production.

 

[JosunUrashima]

They had those in an earlier version of Stellaris. They worked exactly as you described, giving bonuses to various things. It didn't really work out, and so they got mostly removed.

(There are still some remnants of these resources around, like Alien Pets and Betharian Stone, but they're nowhere as powerful as they used to be.)

There's more then those actually around, their just not as plentiful, but I mean in the sense the other poster was talking about, like literal critical/strategic resources that make it possible to, for example, access shield tech. Like say to be able to use shields you have to have access to Shieldeca Crystals, and that the number of such crystals you have determines how many ships you can equip with shield's.

That's not the way I understood it.

Right now special resources give a bonus. So lythuric gas gives 20% better shields. (I think that number is correct, but something like that.) Either way, it's a moderate bonus that can be overcome with a somewhat better fleet. That's not bad, but it's not something you build a strategy around either.

I believe the difference between builds is that in previous versions that bonus applied per station. So I'd build a lythuric gas refinery at a specific starport, where in the current build it simply applies across all of my ships.

What I have in mind is the Civilization model. Some resources would give a bonus like current Stellaris. They're differences of degree. Others allow you to build or do things you otherwise couldn't. They're differences of kind. So under this model lythuric gas might be required to build shields at all. Or perhaps required to build advanced shields of any kind. Under this model you make empire-wide decisions around the options that resource opens up, or around the options foreclosed by a lack of resources. It's like coal, iron or oil popping up on the map in Civ. If I want to be an industrial power, I simply have to secure a supply of coal, full stop.

I'm not going to change my strategy around 10% extra hull points, but I will build an empire around the fact that I can build cloaks but not shields. I won't start a war or launch a major diplomatic push around someone getting +20% explosive weapon damage, but I will if my neighbor can suddenly build fighter fleets and I can't. I feel like that's the big difference.

This is basically like I was talking about. This would change the strategy and make the game more exciting and challenging and add new surprises to each new game as your left wondering just what resources you'll get handed.

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

There's more then those actually around, their just not as plentiful, but I mean in the sense the other poster was talking about, like literal critical/strategic resources that make it possible to, for example, access shield tech. Like say to be able to use shields you have to have access to Shieldeca Crystals, and that the number of such crystals you have determines how many ships you can equip with shield's.

Ah, I see. Apologies for misunderstanding.

I like this idea. It effectively puts a cap on the number of fully-effective warships that the entire galaxy can have, and thus makes it vital to fight over certain areas if you want to have a combat-capable fleet.

(Then again, it might lead to the situation where you can't build shields due to lacking Shieldeca Crystals and I can't build hangar bays due to not having Fightera Powder, so both of us are going into battle with deeply suboptimal fleets. That's kinda cool.)

It would create an experience very different to Stellaris, that's for sure, because in Stellaris every part of the galaxy is pretty much equally important. However, not every game needs to be the same, and there should always be room for experimentation.

It's a good idea. I'm not sure it can be implemented in the Clauswitz engine, but if you or someone else wants to make it, then I'm happy to offer support.

 

[Strager]

It would create an experience very different to Stellaris, that's for sure, because in Stellaris every part of the galaxy is pretty much equally important. However, not every game needs to be the same, and there should always be room for experimentation.

Don't tell people to "go mod it" - guy is making a good effort to provide ideas and suggestions to the dev teams. What he is describing is how I expect Stellaris to be after another year or two of DLCs and patches. Right now "every part of the galaxy is equally important" but 2.0 marks the first time that this isn't the case and I fully expect them to expand on this further in future expansions.

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

Don't tell people to "go mod it" - guy is making a good effort to provide ideas and suggestions to the dev teams.

You know what? I give up.

 

[methegrate]

(Then again, it might lead to the situation where you can't build shields due to lacking Shieldeca Crystals and I can't build hangar bays due to not having Fightera Powder, so both of us are going into battle with deeply suboptimal fleets. That's kinda cool.)

And in fact, I think the decisions you make around lack of resources is even more of the point. When you don't have shield crystals, what do you do? Do you build fleets around another philosophy? Launch a war to acquire some? Start a major diplomatic push to trade for some?

When fighter powder appears in your opponent's territory and you don't have any, how big of a crisis is that? Do you need to strike now before they can start building carriers, or are you confident your fleet can handle this?

Personally, I wouldn't call it suboptimal fleets. Civilization is linear enough that (most of the time) not having resources makes your army weaker. Stellaris is diverse enough, though, that a good system of strategic resources could make for asymmetric fleets. This civilization specialized in armor because that's what they had, while this civilization specialized in shields, another in engine power, etc.

It would add scarcity to Stellaris, which is something I think the game still struggles with. (Reasonably so. They're going for grand space opera, which means playing on a huge scale. Scarcity is tough to achieve there.) And, as I mentioned above, it would periodically shake up the status quo as vital resources appear on the map due to technology, discovery and sometimes just random chance.

 

[Ganggreenkhan]

They had those in an earlier version of Stellaris. They worked exactly as you described, giving bonuses to various things. It didn't really work out, and so they got mostly removed.

(There are still some remnants of these resources around, like Alien Pets and Betharian Stone, but they're nowhere as powerful as they used to be.)

Yeah those days were horrible... if you gave a system with the resource to a sector you lost it and the sector didn't make use of it. Then there were the ship resources and you could put one module per resource on a space station and it was a nightmare getting the bonuses on you fleet.... real nightmare nobody who was there wants to go back to that.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Yeah those days were horrible... if you gave a system with the resource to a sector you lost it and the sector didn't make use of it. Then there were the ship resources and you could put one module per resource on a space station and it was a nightmare getting the bonuses on you fleet.... real nightmare nobody who was there wants to go back to that.

The game has advanced enough that I'm sure a working model of the system could be developed. Starbases have replaced starports, sectors can quite adequately share certain resources directly, there's really nothing that'd prevent another go at having Strategic Resources be, well, more strategic.

I'd love it if shield tech were capped by the availability of the Shield Resource. Higher-tiers of component being locked behind having a particular Resource seems like a really cool idea.