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Stellaris Dev Diary #101 - Marauders, Pirates and the Horde

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today, we continue talking about the Apocalypse expansion and 2.0 'Cherryh' update, on the topic of Marauders and Pirates.

Marauders (Apocalypse Feature)
Marauders are a new type of non-playable empire that those with the Apocalypse expansion can encounter in the galaxy. They are essentially nomadic FTL societies that have eschewed planetary living in favor of living on ships and stations in and around a handful of resource-rich systems, subsisting largely on raiding each other and extorting tribute from settled empires. Being born spacefarers, they are hardy warriors and expert ship crew, able to muster impressive fleets despite their relative lack of technology compared to other older civilizations (such as Fallen Empires). Marauders are always hostile to regular empires, but will generally not attack them unless you attempt to enter their home systems, or they are in the process of raiding them.
2018_01_18_1.png

2018_01_18_2.png


Marauders will occasionally set out to raid settled empires they have established contact with. Before raiding, they will offer said empire a chance to pay them off with a hefty tribute of minerals, energy or food. If you refuse, they will send a fleet to that empire's territory, pillaging stations and raiding planets for slaves, stopping only when they are either destroyed or satisfied with the amount of booty they have amassed. While in the process of raiding, they can still be bought off with tribute, but the price will be raised significantly from if you just agreed to pay them off from the start. Settled empires can pay a Marauder empire to conduct a raid on one of their rivals, both diverting their attention from yourself and potentially weakening that rival's military and economy. A Marauder empire can be wiped out by destroying all stations and ships in their home systems, but these systems are well defended and will take a powerful mid to late game navy to deal with.
2018_01_18_4.png

2018_01_18_8.png


Settled empires can also enlist the aid of Marauders as mercenaries. At the start of the game, it is possible to hire them as Generals or Admirals with a high starting skill and special traits, and after a certain amount of time has passed, the option to hire their fleets will also be unlocked. Marauder fleets cost a large energy payment up-front, and consist of a fixed-size fleet that cannot be split, merged or disbanded, with a leader that cannot be reassigned. The fleet does not count towards your naval cap and will not cost any maintenance, but will only serve you for a period of 5 years, after which you will have to renew their contract by paying the full cost again.
2018_01_18_3.png


Horde Mid-Game Crisis (Apocalypse Feature)
Also new in the Apocalypse expansion is something we're calling the Horde Mid-Game Crisis. This is an event chain that can trigger after the first 100 years of the game, where one of the Marauder empires unifies under a Great Khan. Once this happens, the Marauder empire becomes a Horde, and will begin expanding in all directions, claiming empty systems and sending fleets to destroy the Starbases of any empire that will not submit to the Khan. At any time, it possible for a regular empire to submit to the Khan and become a Satrapy, a type of subject that has to pay part of its income and naval capacity in tribute to the Khan, but is otherwise left to its own devices. The Horde will grow stronger for every system it conquers and Satrapy it acquires, but it is a fragile construct, held together only by the personality of the Khan. If the Great Khan is killed in battle, or falls victim to disease or assassination, the Horde will collapse, at which point one of several things will happen to the Horde and its Satrapies: It may dissolve into a myriad of squabbling successor states, or a new, democratic Federation may form out of its ashes. Regardless, the appearance of the Khan and the Horde is sure to shake up the galactic scene of any game in which it makes an appearance.
2018_01_18_5.png

2018_01_18_6.png


Pirate Rework (Cherryh Feature)
Finally, though not directly related to Marauders, we wanted to mention that we have made some changes to pirates in the 2.0 'Cherryh' update. Back in the dev diary about Starbases, we talked about discouraging 'snaking' and leaving empty systems inside your borders by adjusting the influence costs. This turned out not to work so well in testing for a variety of reasons, and so we decided on a different solution, by expanding on the concept of pirates. Now, once the Birth of Space Piracy event has fired, Pirates will be able to spawn in empty systems bordering your empire. These pirates will attack your systems and pillage your stations until they are destroyed, and will grow stronger and more numerous over the course of the game. They are especially likely to spawn in systems that are fully surrounded by your borders, making any empty systems in the middle of your empire into potential hotbeds of trouble that you are likely going to want to take control of sooner or later. As part of these changes, we have removed most of the static pirate spawns in the galaxy, leaving only their home system with the Pirate Galleon.
2018_01_18_7.png


That's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about Cherryh and the Apocalypse expansion, on the topic of Edicts and Unity Ambitions.
 

NoOneBCE

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hmmm not sure about the Pirate change, it seems counter productive to claiming space system by system.

Forcing players to spend the points to colonice completely empty systems in essance forcing them to blob the same as before does not seem to be condusive to the more Interesting borders the system by system approach + Hyperlanes promised.
 

TGK72

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As those Merauders and Hordes as well as previously Fallens and Awakens seem to care nothing for Naval Capacity maybe it would be nice to get rid of that ridiculous feature? "Sorry Mr President, we can't build another battleship because... eeee... we don't have enough population, and it's eeee... serious science at work, a rocket science I would say, that requires us to.... eeeee... have babies before we build another battleship. Well, we still can do it, but ...eeeeee... they get more expensive if we don't get laid frequently enough..." :)

"Mr. president, this fool and all his science mumbo-jumbo doesn't know what he's talking about. Of course we can build another battleship, this is Space Murica! We'll just have to put more funding towards our admiral positions and reach out into more expensive private company's for staffing and maintaining them."

You do know we can go over the limit too right? That naval capacity simply represents how many ships the empires own facilities and population can support before additional expenses regarding incentives and private enlistment start to become necessary. The system as it stands is reasonable and makes sense, I wouldn't want it removed.
 
Last edited:

EU3NOOB

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Can you pay off a Blorg marauder faction with hugs? Please tell me you can!

(Would be a unique payoff method that costs nothing but puts a temporary happiness penalty on your empire. I mean, you are hugging Blorgs.)
Gah! That's utterly revolting! You're hugging Blorgs! BLORGS! They're the most disgusting race in existence and you want to hug one!
 

Butlerian

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I am hyped for nonstandard AI civilizations in the form of the Maraurders, so I don't wanna be that guy who complains about the 5% bad more than he praises the 95% good, BUT:
  • "Life in the void has become second nature to them"
  • Home system doesn't contain even a single (real) habitat, in spite of Voidborne using almost exactly that same phrase
  • No real habitats means no pop tiles means you can't mount heroic rescue missions to bring back your kidnapped people
One cannot shake the feeling that something has been squandered here.
 
Last edited:

typhado

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Looking pretty good so far. Like the space pirates spawning in empty space, space mongols sounds good, mid game chrisis should make games more fun for me.

I have a question though:

How will pirates spawning in empty space work with Xenophobe Fallen Empires? Usually Xenophobe FE get vicious to anyone who takes space near them leaving large patches of empty space, is this space now going to be filled up with pirates constantly spawning?
 

Surimi

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Forcing players to spend the points to colonice completely empty systems in essance forcing them to blob the same as before does not seem to be condusive to the more Interesting borders the system by system approach + Hyperlanes promised.

If I'm remembering right, there are no completely empty systems now. All systems have some resources so you'll never be forced to claim completely useless systems just to avoid piracy.

It's also worth noting that the mechanic is being presented as a counterbalance to the rewards of snaking or weird border gore. Since it's always potentially going to be rewarding to try and wall off your rivals or block neutral systems for you to expand into exclusively, making this harder and more annoying doesn't necessarily mean it's never going to be a good idea to do it anyway.

Is that just going to be a special event for the Khan only, or is this Becoming a Thing for everybody?

Wiz mentioned in stream that, for now, it only applies to the Khan, but long term there might be some kind of espionage system which allows for other uses of assassination.
 

TempusxX

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so I mentioned earlier that I would like to create a marauder empire but i wasn't exactly complete what i was talking about. See we know from what is shown that Marauders in their empire live on Habitats, space stations.

so when I mentioned that I'd like to play a marauder empire I was thinking of exactly how the marauders live only on habitats/space stations and on their ships. If someone ever made a mod like that I would so try it out

if we are getting Maruader's why not a Marauder Fallen Empire, an Empire that managed to get together thanks to a khan, and when a khan died a new khan to his/her place
 

Butlerian

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How will pirates spawning in empty space work with Xenophobe Fallen Empires? Usually Xenophobe FE get vicious to anyone who takes space near them leaving large patches of empty space, is this space now going to be filled up with pirates constantly spawning?
Well, that's essentially the exact situation with the Maquis in Star Trek.
Buffer zone set up to keep 2 empires apart -> instantly chock full of pirates and outlaws.

...although the true answer to the question is that I expect Xenophobe FE events to be totally rescripted as part of the terrain / hyperlanes rework, so I think it unwise to conjecture on the inconsistencies of 1.9 xenophobes with 2.0 pirates.
 

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so I mentioned earlier that I would like to create a marauder empire but i wasn't exactly complete what i was talking about. See we know from what is shown that Marauders in their empire live on Habitats, space stations.

so when I mentioned that I'd like to play a marauder empire I was thinking of exactly how the marauders live only on habitats/space stations and on their ships. If someone ever made a mod like that I would so try it out

I think we can essentially go full space station hab in 2.0. The latest stream showed Wiz emptying a planet by resettling all the pops off it. Presumably you can do this to all your normal planets and end up with habitats only. Mix in the Barbaric Despoiler civic and you're a marauder!
 

shadowclasper

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Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today, we continue talking about the Apocalypse expansion and 2.0 'Cherryh' update, on the topic of Marauders and Pirates.

Marauders (Apocalypse Feature)
Marauders are a new type of non-playable empire that those with the Apocalypse expansion can encounter in the galaxy. They are essentially nomadic FTL societies that have eschewed planetary living in favor of living on ships and stations in and around a handful of resource-rich systems, subsisting largely on raiding each other and extorting tribute from settled empires. Being born spacefarers, they are hardy warriors and expert ship crew, able to muster impressive fleets despite their relative lack of technology compared to other older civilizations (such as Fallen Empires). Marauders are always hostile to regular empires, but will generally not attack them unless you attempt to enter their home systems, or they are in the process of raiding them.
View attachment 328124
View attachment 328125

Marauders will occasionally set out to raid settled empires they have established contact with. Before raiding, they will offer said empire a chance to pay them off with a hefty tribute of minerals, energy or food. If you refuse, they will send a fleet to that empire's territory, pillaging stations and raiding planets for slaves, stopping only when they are either destroyed or satisfied with the amount of booty they have amassed. While in the process of raiding, they can still be bought off with tribute, but the price will be raised significantly from if you just agreed to pay them off from the start. Settled empires can pay a Marauder empire to conduct a raid on one of their rivals, both diverting their attention from yourself and potentially weakening that rival's military and economy. A Marauder empire can be wiped out by destroying all stations and ships in their home systems, but these systems are well defended and will take a powerful mid to late game navy to deal with.
View attachment 328127
View attachment 328132

Settled empires can also enlist the aid of Marauders as mercenaries. At the start of the game, it is possible to hire them as Generals or Admirals with a high starting skill and special traits, and after a certain amount of time has passed, the option to hire their fleets will also be unlocked. Marauder fleets cost a large energy payment up-front, and consist of a fixed-size fleet that cannot be split, merged or disbanded, with a leader that cannot be reassigned. The fleet does not count towards your naval cap and will not cost any maintenance, but will only serve you for a period of 5 years, after which you will have to renew their contract by paying the full cost again.
View attachment 328126

Horde Mid-Game Crisis (Apocalypse Feature)
Also new in the Apocalypse expansion is something we're calling the Horde Mid-Game Crisis. This is an event chain that can trigger after the first 100 years of the game, where one of the Marauder empires unifies under a Great Khan. Once this happens, the Marauder empire becomes a Horde, and will begin expanding in all directions, claiming empty systems and sending fleets to destroy the Starbases of any empire that will not submit to the Khan. At any time, it possible for a regular empire to submit to the Khan and become a Satrapy, a type of subject that has to pay part of its income and naval capacity in tribute to the Khan, but is otherwise left to its own devices. The Horde will grow stronger for every system it conquers and Satrapy it acquires, but it is a fragile construct, held together only by the personality of the Khan. If the Great Khan is killed in battle, or falls victim to disease or assassination, the Horde will collapse, at which point one of several things will happen to the Horde and its Satrapies: It may dissolve into a myriad of squabbling successor states, or a new, democratic Federation may form out of its ashes. Regardless, the appearance of the Khan and the Horde is sure to shake up the galactic scene of any game in which it makes an appearance.
View attachment 328128
View attachment 328129

Pirate Rework (Cherryh Feature)
Finally, though not directly related to Marauders, we wanted to mention that we have made some changes to pirates in the 2.0 'Cherryh' update. Back in the dev diary about Starbases, we talked about discouraging 'snaking' and leaving empty systems inside your borders by adjusting the influence costs. This turned out not to work so well in testing for a variety of reasons, and so we decided on a different solution, by expanding on the concept of pirates. Now, once the Birth of Space Piracy event has fired, Pirates will be able to spawn in empty systems bordering your empire. These pirates will attack your systems and pillage your stations until they are destroyed, and will grow stronger and more numerous over the course of the game. They are especially likely to spawn in systems that are fully surrounded by your borders, making any empty systems in the middle of your empire into potential hotbeds of trouble that you are likely going to want to take control of sooner or later. As part of these changes, we have removed most of the static pirate spawns in the galaxy, leaving only their home system with the Pirate Galleon.
View attachment 328130

That's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about Cherryh and the Apocalypse expansion, on the topic of Edicts and Unity Ambitions.
You guys continue to impress. The Pirate rework especially sounds like the perfect way to balance the whole thing. Does this mean that the influence cost to settle a system will now be fixed regardless of distance? But the risk of pirates will go up? (After all, a snaked system will be surrounded by many more 'empty' systems, and you'll end up with more 'lawless' space. Honestly it'd be pretty cool if you actually made a mechanic for 'lawless space' with this as a foundation.

Frontier space is space that hasn't been explored and is way the hell out from the colonies.

Lawless space borders on existing colonies and has been explored by one or more empires.

No such planets in the game at this time. They have been consumed by the mists of time, and the Marauders themselves are unlikely to remember their origins at this point...
would be pretty cool if they might be remnants of one of the precursor event empires...
They will cease to exist if you manage to clean out their systems, allowing you to claim them for yourself. This is not something that you will realistically be able to do until quite late in the game, though.
will they cease to exist if you wiped them out while one of their mercenary fleets were hired? or will that then leave some of their fleets bouncing around? Cause it'd be pretty cool if they turned into normal space nomads if something like this happened.
 
Last edited:

JosunUrashima

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If they're always hostile, then how an AI Federation would act if it's attacked by random Marauders? By Horde? Will said Federation ever strike back with the purpose of destroying the enemy? And if it won't, then how you expect them to survive and remain even semi-competitive?

How Players+AI composed Federation will act? Will we be able to commit federation members' fleets to the cause of fighting with random Marauders? Will federation members' fleets automatically come to help if player's space is attacked by Marauders/Horde?

Really, I think we need some military diplomacy. Something like target designation for allied fleets, to which friendly AI (or human) would heed. Since Cherryh is focused on war, such feature is absolutely necessary.

Since I've advocated we draw more features from other paradox games, i believe that would be the Attach allied Units thing from CK2 when at war ad dealing with vassal armies and allies.
 

JosunUrashima

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And hasn't Wiz gone on record saying he wants to do away with the stereotypical 4X win conditions?

I would love more kinds of victory conditions. I remember making a point of winning all four of the main ones in Gal Civ 2 (Conquest, Diplomacy, Economy/Cultural and Technological) and actually tended to have more fun going for the latter three than the first.
 

pieman

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Nice addition of more to deal with in the mid game.

I would love to see some not military, large scale threats as well though. Things such as galactic economic crashes (would require a major economy overhaul obviously), space plagues, gammer ray burst events to mitigate etc.

It'd need to be something more in depth than another research project event to be worth implementing though.
 

JosunUrashima

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My only concern is these new threats will arrive toothless. I hate to word it like this, because it's just an observation not a judgement, but the game always seems to be balanced around the more creative-minded players who don't want anything to affect them until they are good and ready, if even then. And just to be clear, my expectation isn't that the game is relentlessly punishing: there's just very few 'negatives' for you to deal with in Stellaris.

Or to look at it differently, there was an article on Shadows of War talking about how the game is at it's best when you don't play well. Most of the really interesting personalities and events really only exist as part of failure, success is generally a sanitized experience. In Stellaris it doesn't even feel like you have to play particularly well: just make sure you have enough food and energy and don't piss off your neighbors if you can help it. Maybe there's something to be said about that, but take Democracy 3 for example: generally no matter what you do someone is going to hate you. Someone will be unhappy. It never feels like you make 'the right' decision, you simply make 'your' decisions and deal with the outcomes. I'd love for pirates and marauders to be something you have to deal with, and the type of threat that can actually shake up how you play, but given the history of the game and other such features aimed at providing this I can't say I'm highly optimistic it won't go the route of unrest and be something you can easily manage or ignore.

I am worried about this admittedly, at least in a more general longer term sort of thing then with it being a problem now.

@Wiz Will our fleets be able to “patrol” without micromanagement? This would help deal with pirates emerging without having to send a little fleet to a specific system every time. Maybe a fleet stance similar to auto explore but instead they patrol?

Maybe they will make pit stops to repair?

Also this is my first post so sorry if it’s badly formatted or against some unwritten rules.

This is something I would actually like, with the option to perhaps even map out your own patrol area's.

Though, to expand on that, one thing I'd love to see borrowed from is the idea that unless you sign a non-aggression treaty, another empire could in theory attack your ships if their outside your space. This would especially be a big thing for both Xenophobic races and Militarist ones.

Gah! That's utterly revolting! You're hugging Blorgs! BLORGS! They're the most disgusting race in existence and you want to hug one!

But I want to hug a Blorg...



Actually, this is for @Wiz are there plans to introduce campaign mode, like a pre-set galaxy with all the pre-made races in it? With special event chains and things?
 

Person012345

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As those Merauders and Hordes as well as previously Fallens and Awakens seem to care nothing for Naval Capacity maybe it would be nice to get rid of that ridiculous feature? "Sorry Mr President, we can't build another battleship because... eeee... we don't have enough population, and it's eeee... serious science at work, a rocket science I would say, that requires us to.... eeeee... have babies before we build another battleship. Well, we still can do it, but ...eeeeee... they get more expensive if we don't get laid frequently enough..." :)
Except you can build over the fleet cap. Just think of it as administrative costs for having too much military for your empire, or perhaps the military industrial complex corrupting the government when it's too well funded resulting in ever increasing waste.
 

Person012345

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My only concern is these new threats will arrive toothless. I hate to word it like this, because it's just an observation not a judgement, but the game always seems to be balanced around the more creative-minded players who don't want anything to affect them until they are good and ready, if even then. And just to be clear, my expectation isn't that the game is relentlessly punishing: there's just very few 'negatives' for you to deal with in Stellaris.

Or to look at it differently, there was an article on Shadows of War talking about how the game is at it's best when you don't play well. Most of the really interesting personalities and events really only exist as part of failure, success is generally a sanitized experience. In Stellaris it doesn't even feel like you have to play particularly well: just make sure you have enough food and energy and don't piss off your neighbors if you can help it. Maybe there's something to be said about that, but take Democracy 3 for example: generally no matter what you do someone is going to hate you. Someone will be unhappy. It never feels like you make 'the right' decision, you simply make 'your' decisions and deal with the outcomes. I'd love for pirates and marauders to be something you have to deal with, and the type of threat that can actually shake up how you play, but given the history of the game and other such features aimed at providing this I can't say I'm highly optimistic it won't go the route of unrest and be something you can easily manage or ignore.
Are you saying that hard difficulty needs to be harder?