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Stellaris Dev Diary #101 - Marauders, Pirates and the Horde

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today, we continue talking about the Apocalypse expansion and 2.0 'Cherryh' update, on the topic of Marauders and Pirates.

Marauders (Apocalypse Feature)
Marauders are a new type of non-playable empire that those with the Apocalypse expansion can encounter in the galaxy. They are essentially nomadic FTL societies that have eschewed planetary living in favor of living on ships and stations in and around a handful of resource-rich systems, subsisting largely on raiding each other and extorting tribute from settled empires. Being born spacefarers, they are hardy warriors and expert ship crew, able to muster impressive fleets despite their relative lack of technology compared to other older civilizations (such as Fallen Empires). Marauders are always hostile to regular empires, but will generally not attack them unless you attempt to enter their home systems, or they are in the process of raiding them.
2018_01_18_1.png

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Marauders will occasionally set out to raid settled empires they have established contact with. Before raiding, they will offer said empire a chance to pay them off with a hefty tribute of minerals, energy or food. If you refuse, they will send a fleet to that empire's territory, pillaging stations and raiding planets for slaves, stopping only when they are either destroyed or satisfied with the amount of booty they have amassed. While in the process of raiding, they can still be bought off with tribute, but the price will be raised significantly from if you just agreed to pay them off from the start. Settled empires can pay a Marauder empire to conduct a raid on one of their rivals, both diverting their attention from yourself and potentially weakening that rival's military and economy. A Marauder empire can be wiped out by destroying all stations and ships in their home systems, but these systems are well defended and will take a powerful mid to late game navy to deal with.
2018_01_18_4.png

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Settled empires can also enlist the aid of Marauders as mercenaries. At the start of the game, it is possible to hire them as Generals or Admirals with a high starting skill and special traits, and after a certain amount of time has passed, the option to hire their fleets will also be unlocked. Marauder fleets cost a large energy payment up-front, and consist of a fixed-size fleet that cannot be split, merged or disbanded, with a leader that cannot be reassigned. The fleet does not count towards your naval cap and will not cost any maintenance, but will only serve you for a period of 5 years, after which you will have to renew their contract by paying the full cost again.
2018_01_18_3.png


Horde Mid-Game Crisis (Apocalypse Feature)
Also new in the Apocalypse expansion is something we're calling the Horde Mid-Game Crisis. This is an event chain that can trigger after the first 100 years of the game, where one of the Marauder empires unifies under a Great Khan. Once this happens, the Marauder empire becomes a Horde, and will begin expanding in all directions, claiming empty systems and sending fleets to destroy the Starbases of any empire that will not submit to the Khan. At any time, it possible for a regular empire to submit to the Khan and become a Satrapy, a type of subject that has to pay part of its income and naval capacity in tribute to the Khan, but is otherwise left to its own devices. The Horde will grow stronger for every system it conquers and Satrapy it acquires, but it is a fragile construct, held together only by the personality of the Khan. If the Great Khan is killed in battle, or falls victim to disease or assassination, the Horde will collapse, at which point one of several things will happen to the Horde and its Satrapies: It may dissolve into a myriad of squabbling successor states, or a new, democratic Federation may form out of its ashes. Regardless, the appearance of the Khan and the Horde is sure to shake up the galactic scene of any game in which it makes an appearance.
2018_01_18_5.png

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Pirate Rework (Cherryh Feature)
Finally, though not directly related to Marauders, we wanted to mention that we have made some changes to pirates in the 2.0 'Cherryh' update. Back in the dev diary about Starbases, we talked about discouraging 'snaking' and leaving empty systems inside your borders by adjusting the influence costs. This turned out not to work so well in testing for a variety of reasons, and so we decided on a different solution, by expanding on the concept of pirates. Now, once the Birth of Space Piracy event has fired, Pirates will be able to spawn in empty systems bordering your empire. These pirates will attack your systems and pillage your stations until they are destroyed, and will grow stronger and more numerous over the course of the game. They are especially likely to spawn in systems that are fully surrounded by your borders, making any empty systems in the middle of your empire into potential hotbeds of trouble that you are likely going to want to take control of sooner or later. As part of these changes, we have removed most of the static pirate spawns in the galaxy, leaving only their home system with the Pirate Galleon.
2018_01_18_7.png


That's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about Cherryh and the Apocalypse expansion, on the topic of Edicts and Unity Ambitions.
 

methegrate

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My only concern is these new threats will arrive toothless. I hate to word it like this, because it's just an observation not a judgement, but the game always seems to be balanced around the more creative-minded players who don't want anything to affect them until they are good and ready, if even then. And just to be clear, my expectation isn't that the game is relentlessly punishing: there's just very few 'negatives' for you to deal with in Stellaris.

Or to look at it differently, there was an article on Shadows of War talking about how the game is at it's best when you don't play well. Most of the really interesting personalities and events really only exist as part of failure, success is generally a sanitized experience. In Stellaris it doesn't even feel like you have to play particularly well: just make sure you have enough food and energy and don't piss off your neighbors if you can help it. Maybe there's something to be said about that, but take Democracy 3 for example: generally no matter what you do someone is going to hate you. Someone will be unhappy. It never feels like you make 'the right' decision, you simply make 'your' decisions and deal with the outcomes. I'd love for pirates and marauders to be something you have to deal with, and the type of threat that can actually shake up how you play, but given the history of the game and other such features aimed at providing this I can't say I'm highly optimistic it won't go the route of unrest and be something you can easily manage or ignore.

Personally, I think this has a lot to do with the fact that in Stellaris you pretty much can have everything.

The game doesn't really force you into tradeoffs or zero-sum decisions all that often. By midgame, you have enough resources to build everything, enough energy to support everything, etc. With the exception of super-warlike species, you can generally stay on good terms with almost everybody. Since you don't really need anything, so there's nothing you need to fight over. There are no critical resources that might not appear within your borders, forcing you to go get them, etc.

In most games, if I choose to be rich in one area I have to be poor in another. The sheer scope of Stellaris makes it so that you don't have to make that choice. There's no choice you make that will make something else unstable. It's also why (at least in my experience) there's a "right" way to play Stellaris. Since you can have everything, there's not really a decision that's right in some circumstances and wrong in others.
 
Last edited:

Devanor

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Not sure how I feel about this. A few rogue drones is one thing, but wouldn't this be like saying that the Gestalt Consciousness is constantly turning in on itself? They were suppose to be exempt from the pirate event anyway. It makes more sense to just leave them as normal space pirates from other races.
upload_2018-1-18_21-46-29.jpeg
 

TheDeadlyShoe

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Personally, I think this has a lot to do with the fact that in Stellaris you pretty much can have everything.

The game doesn't really force you into tradeoffs or zero-sum decisions all that often. By midgame, you have enough resources to build everything, enough energy to support everything, etc. With the exception of super-warlike species, you can generally stay on good terms with almost everybody. Since you don't really need anything, so there's nothing you need to fight over. There are no critical resources that might not appear within your borders, forcing you to go get them, etc.

In most games, if I choose to be rich in one area I have to be poor in another. The sheer scope of Stellaris makes it so that you don't have to make that choice. There's no choice you make that will make something else unstable. It's also why (at least in my experience) there's a "right" way to play Stellaris. Since you can have everything, there's not really a decision that's right in some circumstances and wrong in others.
well, the downside of contradicting your ethics is less influence and more unrest. unrest was useless though...but in Cherryh it won't be so easily solved.
 

Devanor

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He can't die of old age? That's a pretty ham-fisted way to deal with the problem. And it's silly.
I agree with nweismuller:
I think the implication is that he's a Chosen One, much as your own empires can get. And Chosen Ones don't die of old age.
It states in the Drum of War event pop-up that he's "rumored to be a powerful psychic".
 

samz812

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OMG i already cant wait for 2.0 and this is not helping my need to play it NOW XD i would like to ask if if you guys are planning on if not now maybe in the future giving the pirates some more unique station visuals rather than a copy paste of the currant Enclave stations with different color lights, just something a bit more unique and something akin to there style.

also
space khans,cool,so,next will be``````errrr``````space crusaders?

 

Shift28

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@Wiz Will our fleets be able to “patrol” without micromanagement? This would help deal with pirates emerging without having to send a little fleet to a specific system every time. Maybe a fleet stance similar to auto explore but instead they patrol?

Maybe they will make pit stops to repair?

Also this is my first post so sorry if it’s badly formatted or against some unwritten rules.
 
Last edited:

Dr_Gentech

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I'd assume he's saying "he" just like some countries refer to a clock as "she" (despite being an object). The Khan may or may not be female or non-gendered alien.
Svenske does have genders for nouns, but I do not think there's a defined gender for Khan (I may be wrong) and there is a neuter gender in general. It depends on whether Wiz is translating from han or den or det. It's not uncommon for people who speak Swedish or Danish to accidentally use gendered pronouns when it is not intended in English, but SAOL has tried to correct this.

Edit: nvm Wiz addressed it already, should have read down before responding...
 
Last edited:
Dec 21, 2016
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the new pirate are most likely to be a problem in the first version of 2.0
they will be very hard to balance and very likely to be annoying
maybe give a hint about where they gonna show up in advance?
or combine with the new starbase system so pirate can only spawn 3 system away from any starport or above
 

I_am_Nemo

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This may come up on the stream soon enough, but do ground defenses have any impact on slave raiding? From a logical standpoint, the marauders have to not only get down to the surface, but get the slaves back up to their ships - a couple hastily deployed hover-tanks could at least encourage the raiding party to cut their expedition short.
 

Rip Off Productions

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Not sure how I feel about this. A few rogue drones is one thing, but wouldn't this be like saying that the Gestalt Consciousness is constantly turning in on itself? They were suppose to be exempt from the pirate event anyway. It makes more sense to just leave them as normal space pirates from other races.
how do you know this isn't the case? all he said was that the Hivemind/Machine Empires will have special flavor text for their pirates, whatever they might be, and them being outsiders could easily be what it is.
 

Shift28

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@Wiz also are any of the crises going to need to be rebalanced after the new mechanics? Will Prethoryn be harder to fight without a doom stack?
 

FiddleSticks96

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how do you know this isn't the case? all he said was that the Hivemind/Machine Empires will have special flavor text for their pirates, whatever they might be, and them being outsiders could easily be what it is.

Fair enough, I don't know, but that is what happens when humans lack context, we fill in the blanks with the worst case scenario.
 

Sweawm

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@Wiz

Hey, a really great idea for a future feature that's bouncing around here and Reddit is paying for pops that have been taken by Marauders. Perhaps if one had good relations with Marauders, you could pay to ransom back pops of your primary species providing you had space for them. Xenophiles could also ransom any enslaved pops, regardless of species, allowing them to build empires with a diverse range of species without having to war or assimilate others. Xenophobes could 'ransom' other species too, a debt those ransomed will have to *ahem* repay to their generous benefactors.
 

Spaceman78

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Personally, I think this has a lot to do with the fact that in Stellaris you pretty much can have everything.

The game doesn't really force you into tradeoffs or zero-sum decisions all that often. By midgame, you have enough resources to build everything, enough energy to support everything, etc. With the exception of super-warlike species, you can generally stay on good terms with almost everybody. Since you don't really need anything, so there's nothing you need to fight over. There are no critical resources that might not appear within your borders, forcing you to go get them, etc.

In most games, if I choose to be rich in one area I have to be poor in another. The sheer scope of Stellaris makes it so that you don't have to make that choice. There's no choice you make that will make something else unstable. It's also why (at least in my experience) there's a "right" way to play Stellaris. Since you can have everything, there's not really a decision that's right in some circumstances and wrong in others.

Does this mean you like this or dislike this?

I would dislike have an optimal way or the one way to play the game to win.

However I do like the inclusion of critical resources. For example Civ5 has some critical resources like horses and iron. If you want to build horsemen or spear man, you do need those resources, either by discovering, trading or conquering. This makes interesting game play as such resources creates conflict.

What I would like to see is that due to circumstances or resources you emphasize your society or research:
Perhaps you like resources for armor or shields, you may emphasize in lets say cloak technology. While your neighbor has lots of that and has heavy armored ships, but less cloak because he doesn't have those resources.

Due to everyone starting with basically the same kind of technologies: armor shields missiles etc, you may emphasize on a certain branch of laser tech, while your neighbor has empathize on another category of laser tech. Kind of like Star Trek the Breen technologies vs Klingon cloak vs "standard" Federation. Or you emphasize on fighters and carriers while other focuses on corvette or destroyers (bigger ships require certain resources) etc, while another has to focus on the bigger ships.
 

Darkspysrival

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So endless pirates and a Mongol horde. Basically EU and CK in space.
 

Axe99

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Cheers for the DD Wiz and the extra info Goosecreature :D. Appropriately apocalyptic content, and by the sound of it a great way of making the galaxy a bit more dynamic. This is in no way a criticism of how they currently sound, but I'd bet you'll expand on marauders as time goes by to make them even more interesting and interactive - little things like:

If someone destroys their space stations, there is a chance of Marauder pops appearing as refugees (assuming your empire accepts them).

are very cool :cool:.