Naval Rebalance | Designer Corner

[unmerged(742252)]

Umm, not exactly what you are asking for, but you can flag a port to not be used for repairs. Just CTRL-Click the Anchor Icon for the port, and it will not be used for repairs.

Really? LMAO I'll have to try that text time I play

 

[Ossiv]

Will historical ships designs be correct in line with real life? This's the in-game design of the Admiral Graf Spee:

View attachment 846144

In the actual designer it was impossible to put a heavy gun battery in the stern. In reality it was different. Based on the in-game ships designs, Graf Spee is twice as weak in firepower as Dunkerque. Here's historical design of Graf Spee:

View attachment 846168

P.S.
Waiting for the pack with ship models xD

Dunkerque really had double firepower compared to Admiral Graf Spee. Dunkerque carried 8 330mm (13 in) guns that fired 552-560 kg shells, range 40 km. Admiral Graf Speed carried 6 280mm (11 in) guns that fired 300-336 kg shells, range 36 km. In HOI IV one turret represents 6 guns, so AGS has got only one turret.

German Panzerschiff had heavier armor than contemporary heavy cruisers, although lighter than battlecruisers. Panzerschiff had 100mm belt, 140mm main turret and 45-70mm deck armor, while Hipper-class heavy cruisers had 70-80mm belt, 105mm main turret and 20-50mm deck armor. Also, Panzershiff were not slow, their speed was about 29 knots, while Hipper reached 32 knots. In HOI this is all wrong, Panzerschiff have been given light cruiser armor and they are slow. That really needs to be fixed.

Developers, please give German Panzershiff their historical heavy armor and speed. They were not limited by the Washington Naval Treaty and therefore had heavier armor and firepower than any other similar size warship. That's why they were considered capable of convoy raiding alone, being able to fight screens up to cruiser size.

 

[wagnerleung0079]

Plz also rework the Washington Naval Treaty. The current one only limited the ship by Production cost, it basically didn't allow players to build any historical Treaty battleship. Is it possible to change the Treaty to limit the ship by the tier of ship hull and the amount and kind of installed modules like tank designer does?

 

[GrandVezir]

Firstly I want to say that you can no longer have both medium cruiser and light cruiser guns on the same design, fitting both will invalidate the design. This will eliminate one of the largest exploits in current ship design and should prevent ships being unintentionally protected by screening.

Potential new designs to exploit capital ship screening and positioning:

• CA-DP
• BC-LA

 

[Nikarus]

German Panzerschiff had heavier armor than contemporary heavy cruisers, although lighter than battlecruisers. Panzerschiff had 100mm belt, 140mm main turret and 45-70mm deck armor, while Hipper-class heavy cruisers had 70-80mm belt, 105mm main turret and 20-50mm deck armor. Also, Panzershiff were not slow, their speed was about 29 knots, while Hipper reached 32 knots. In HOI this is all wrong, Panzerschiff have been given light cruiser armor and they are slow. That really needs to be fixed.

100mm was the average>low end for heavy cruisers built around the late 20s early 30s (and only Graf Spee claims 100mm, the other 2 Deutschlands claim 80mm, frankly on the low end). Glancing through other CAs, there's a lot of 114-127mm belts around.

Further thoughts. If the Panzerschiff get buffed in armor (6 to what?) and speed (25kn to 29) does that mean the starting US swarm of Portland and New Orleans can both be bumped up to 32kn, and at least 1 armor more than the new panzerschiffs (as they had 127mm)?

Perhaps you should direct your area of complaint to the armor on some CLs in the game like the Konigsbergs (6) which historically only had about 50mm.

 

[wagnerleung0079]

Would Naval Attack from Aircraft count as Torpedo Strike and the damage and chance of critical hits be affected by Torpedo Damage Reduction and Incoming Torpedo hit Critical chance modifiers in Armor?

If Naval Attack from Aircraft are not the same thing as Bomb Strike, would there be a deck Armor module that has a Bomb Damage Reduction and Incoming Bomb hit Critical chance modifiers added into this rework?

 

[xtfoster]

Potential new designs to exploit capital ship screening and positioning:

• CA-DP
• BC-LA

Not seeing either of those as a problem. For that matter, I'm not even sure the changes they have announced will allow it.
It seems like the mechanic that prevents adding a Light Cruiser Battery to a ship with a Heavy Cruiser Battery (or vice versa) would also prevent adding a Light Battery (since they both fall under Rapid Fire Guns).
Last time I checked you can't add Cruiser or Destroyer Batteries to a Heavy Ship Hull, so all you would be left with for the BC-LA would be Secondary Batteries which doesn't seem worth it considering the long build time for a Heavy Ship Hull.

 

[Kizzaris]

Dunkerque really had double firepower compared to Admiral Graf Spee. Dunkerque carried 8 330mm (13 in) guns that fired 552-560 kg shells, range 40 km. Admiral Graf Speed carried 6 280mm (11 in) guns that fired 300-336 kg shells, range 36 km. In HOI IV one turret represents 6 guns, so AGS has got only one turret.

German Panzerschiff had heavier armor than contemporary heavy cruisers, although lighter than battlecruisers. Panzerschiff had 100mm belt, 140mm main turret and 45-70mm deck armor, while Hipper-class heavy cruisers had 70-80mm belt, 105mm main turret and 20-50mm deck armor. Also, Panzershiff were not slow, their speed was about 29 knots, while Hipper reached 32 knots. In HOI this is all wrong, Panzerschiff have been given light cruiser armor and they are slow. That really needs to be fixed.

Developers, please give German Panzershiff their historical heavy armor and speed. They were not limited by the Washington Naval Treaty and therefore had heavier armor and firepower than any other similar size warship. That's why they were considered capable of convoy raiding alone, being able to fight screens up to cruiser size.

Ok, Schanrnhorst with 9 283mm guns have same firepower as Richelieu with 8 380mm guns in game.
My main emphasis is on another point. In my view, if we are have a graphic interpretation of the ships design in the designer, the main points must correspond to the real drawings. The number of turrets and main caliber guns is fundamental. If give a choice of three turrets, with two, three, and four guns, each with different firepower, reliability, and weight, designer gets much better. The tank designer is more detailed than the ships designer, although tanks were produced by the thousands and ships by the units.

 

[Beerman]

Great!, so now we are forced to research more naval techs to get a decent surface fleet. Currently it take at least 3 years to build a carrier or battleship, assuming you did the research for the following - Battleship hull, battleship armor, battle ship guns, secondaries, AA, radar, fire control, and now we are forced to research ammo upgrades along the tech tree. With all the research done, you better have enough naval exp to implement the new design! After that, a 1944 battleship will be done by around 1947 because we can only have access to 5 dockyards associated with the ship. Ridiculous! Then repeat the process for fleet escorts which require more modules such as ASW, light attack for destroyers, light attack for cruisers, minesweeping, minelaying, air attack, sonar, floatplanes, and even armor for your light cruisers. Don't forget doctrines which use naval exp.
This game must increase the amount of research slots, you can literally rule half the world and still have only 5 research slots and not be able to build a decent navy, Ridiculous. Research slots should be based off population and infrastructure (1st world nations vs 3rd world nations). I really hate this naval system, sorry folks, Rant over.

 

[Dimmie_Dumm]

Currently it take at least 3 years to build a carrier or battleship

I'd be fine with that if we were allowed to implement changes during construction and keep the progress going. Like it happened historically, duh. Heck, when the situation required it, capital ships sailed off half-finished!

 

[Razgriz13]

I have 2 very small questions:
-Can we finally have gun tech be considered Destroyer/Cruiser/Battleship tech? I would love to use bonuses from tech trees on those.
-Can we finally have cruiser subs avaliable in the tech tree?

 

[Invader_Canuck]

For overstacking ships, why not make fleet battles dependent on fleet sizes themselves. Fleets have limited engagement ranges. Two giant fleets engaging shouldn't have a stacking penalty because naturally the two fleets would expand the area of engagement to accomodate their sizes. One giant fleet chasing a 4 ship raiding group should suffer a stacking penalty. Why? All 150 ships in the megadeathstack will not be able to fire on the 4 ships running for their lives. Something like, if one fleet is more than 3x larger than the smaller fleet, it starts suffering some stacking penalty.

 

[xtfoster]

Great!, so now we are forced to research more naval techs to get a decent surface fleet.

Wait what? They added the new DP techs (3 total, but we already had 1, so +2), but they combined the armor techs from Cruisers and Heavy Hulls, so 3 down from 6. That sounds like a net -1 to me.

 

[$ilent_$trider]

I'd be fine with that if we were allowed to implement changes during construction and keep the progress going. Like it happened historically, duh. Heck, when the situation required it, capital ships sailed off half-finished!

And the front didn’t fell off?

 

[Miguelinileugim]

that is not the same. Take a ship with 35 speed & 10 visibility, it has a hit profile of 31 with the new calculation. your calculation would give a hit profile of 8 for that same ship.

Damn I screwed up, i meant visibility + 200 lol. Instead of doubling both I doubled the right side and halved the left side lol.

The formula should be then:
( (visibility * 200) / (speed + 30) )

 

[xtfoster]

I have 2 very small questions:
-Can we finally have cruiser subs avaliable in the tech tree?

I still don't understand why some hulls are only available to some countries.
Its not like Germany was the only country who could have built Panzerschiffe (excepting the big 5 who were prohibited by the Washington/London Naval Treaties.) (And not that I would, I usually convert them to CVLs when I play as Germany or just scrap them).
Its not like there was anything novel (other than the Long Lance torpedos) about the Japanese Torpedo Cruisers. The 2 that existed were rebuilt Kuma-class CL (and never saw action as torpedo cruisers).
Pretty much any country that could build a large warship could build a Coastal Defense Ship (although they might have to import the machinery and armament, but that would be true for any country except the Big 5 - even the USSR didn't have the capability of building the guns for the Project 23 Battleships (but they were working on it) and IIRC they purchased most of the machinery abroad as well.)

 

[DukofDeth]

@Corax Perhaps the penalties to size should have a time factor. Common sense still dictates that more "guns" shooting will always win out in the end so the longer an engagement drags out for the less penalty a large fleet will have; this could even play into the positioning penalty to account for a portion of the fleet maanging to maneuver into an intercept position to cut off escape. Smaller fleets can fully engage quicker; larger ones not so much but as time goes by they will eventually dominate. This could even be used to encourage the usual Death Stack being broken up into several Strike Forces such that each additional Strike Force able to operate in a Sea Zone can improve the positioning penalty faster over time to represent the eventual enveloping of the enemy.

Assuming the enemy is not also sending in its own Death Stacks.

I've a feeling someone may have already said this yet I am seeing concerns being raised that even a 75% over-stacking penalty will not always deter over-stacking.

 

[Axe99]

German Panzerschiff had heavier armor than contemporary heavy cruisers, although lighter than battlecruisers. Panzerschiff had 100mm belt, 140mm main turret and 45-70mm deck armor, while Hipper-class heavy cruisers had 70-80mm belt, 105mm main turret and 20-50mm deck armor. Also, Panzershiff were not slow, their speed was about 29 knots, while Hipper reached 32 knots. In HOI this is all wrong, Panzerschiff have been given light cruiser armor and they are slow. That really needs to be fixed.

It's worth bearing in mind that the Deutschland and Hipper classes were very different ships. The Deutstchlands (Deutschland, Scheer, Graf Spee) - which are the ships commonly referred to as the Panzerschiffs - had a top speed of about 26-28kts, while the Hippers (Hipper, Blucher, Prinz Eugen) had a top speed of 32kts unforced, and 32.5kts forced.

In terms of armour thicknesses, the Deutschland's had an 80mm max belt (you might be adding the longitudinal splinter bulkheads to this to get your thicker belt, or perhaps the plating behind the armour?) and a 45mm deck in the citadel (there was a tiny bit of armour, 17-18mm, on the upper deck, and some other bits and pieces lower down, but the 45mm citadel deck is the key horizontal armour) - where they were particularly strong was their turret armour, with 140mm faces and a max of 105mm on the roof. Your figures are what I've got for the Hippers except for the turret, where my sources give them a max (on the face) of 160mm . All figures taken from Keep and Schmolke's books on both classes, and I checked with Skwiot's German Naval Guns for the Hipper's turret face armour thickness.

In terms of HoI4 figures, though, it's worth noting that the modules in the game are very "rough approximations", with the values provided being there for flavour rather than to exactly match a specific ship's armour values (to have enough modules to match all the different combinations would be a lot of work for accurate flavour text, for relatively little gameplay benefit).

 

[andichu_go]

Seems like a lot of nice quality of lifechanges, but I am curious if they're hiding in AI tweaks so that the AI actually bothers to build new heavy ships -- instead of pumping out cheap destroyers.

 

[marcelo r. r.]

pls add a speed description for each ship in the taskforce units list.(i dont know proper name, its when u click a taskforce and ships are show).

those who looking for organizing a fleet by ship speeds, have a painful time memorizing the each class speed or, clicking individually to check.