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Imperator Dev Diary: Traditions and more inventions

Hi all!

Today we’ll be covering changes to Military Traditions, as well as showing you some iteration points on the new invention system.

Military traditions will be receiving a similar treatment to inventions, in that they will now exist in a tree-structure, with a modicum of choice, and continuing to be unlocked by their own unique resource, Military Experience.

The military traditions screen currently appears as below; though it’s worth noting that this view is very WIP, and is likely to be entirely changed in the near future.


1.png

2.png



As you can see here, there are now twice as many trees as before - we’ve split up the existing trees into two themed parts, such as Greek Kingdom traditions and Greek Poleis traditions.

As a Greek, for example, I would be able to follow either of these trees at the beginning of the game.

The bonuses themselves have received a balance pass, but haven’t changed drastically at this juncture; the military flavor and abilities unlocked from old trees have been preserved and distributed, however, there is one notable exception to this:

3.png


Each of the new trees is now explicitly linked to a geographically adjacent or culturally related set of tradition trees; the Greek Poleis traditions, for example, allow you the ability to unlock Levantine traditions. Likewise, the Roman traditions allow you to opt-in to Greek traditions should you so desire.

The unlock nodes for these particular traditions are usually separated from the rest of the tree - it should remain inefficient to look further afield, though the opportunity to craft your civilization in different ways is a core part of the vision I have for Imperator.

This does of course mean that should you be able to generate enough Military Experience (the sources of which will be discussed in a future dev diary), you will eventually be able to unlock almost any tradition category from anywhere in the world. This is likely to require a campaign’s-worth of experience gathering, however.

We’ve also added instant effect blocks to these traditions, so as per inventions, we’re able to fire arbitrary script effects on adoption of a specific tradition - how exactly we’ll use this is as yet undecided, but gives both us and modders a lot more power over making trees feel unique.

And now we’re back onto inventions!

The technology and inventions dev diary was very well received, but also came with some constructive community feedback.

As we mentioned, we hadn’t quite decided how to deal with invention cost - so based on feedback and balance, we’re dropping the gold cost for inventions. Innovations (as mentioned last week) will be required to unlock inventions, but will now be the sole resource for doing so. These will still be generated through technology levels, but may also be granted in special cases from elsewhere.

This means that unlocking all inventions over the course of a campaign becomes more or less impossible - what becomes important is the path you will take through them. This also added the need for more character and identity for some inventions, in order to be able to craft your civilization into something unique that differs from playthrough to playthrough:

4.png


(Visuals still WIP! The star means nothing, and is debug only ;))

Here, we’ve added another layer of choice-making. You’ll notice above that some inventions have a unique ornament. This indicates a cornerstone invention that has significant or gameplay altering effects.

This can be a significant modifier boost, however it can also be one-shot effects such as raising stats of important characters or rulers, unlocking related aspects to features (for example, Great Wonder building effects), or changing how you interact with characters - I’ll provide a few examples below:


5.png

6.png

7.png



Another UI solution you may have noticed, is that these tree screenshots have all appeared at different zoom levels. We’re implementing a common zoom-area utility for tree-graphs such as Missions, Inventions and Traditions, which will function similarly to the focus trees of HOI, or the family tree viewer in Crusader Kings III.

That’s all for now - until next week!

/Arheo
 
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anduls

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I don't like trees. Trees seems now to be the prime design principle at Paradox. I like more the Stellaris research system. The worst trees are focus trees in HOI4.
 
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IsaacCAT

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I don't like trees. Trees seems now to be the prime design principle at Paradox. I like more the Stellaris research system. The worst trees are focus trees in HOI4.

In some cases the tree structure is justified. But many times you end up forcing everything to fit in a tree when it is not natural or real.

We should have a graphical representation of what can we achieve and how it can be achieved (requisits).

But it is the player who has to build his/her planning as when and what he/she wants to achieve.

If the planning is already drawn, it takes some of the fun from the player. I would rather like all options presented at the start of the game and a post aar planning drawn by the game each time.
 
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Marcus Pica

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In some cases the tree structure is justified. But many times you end up forcing everything to fit in a tree when it is not natural or real.

We should have a graphical representation of what can we achieve and how it can be achieved (requisits).

But it is the player who has to build his/her planning as when and what he/she wants to achieve.

If the planning is already drawn, it takes some of the fun from the player. I would rather like all options presented at the start of the game and a post aar planning drawn by the game each time.
Some decisions, inventionc etc logically follow from one to the other especially in games that are supposed to be as historically authentic as PDX GSG. An example is the HOI4 national focus trees - there need to be some logical historical path that would lead to historical or even alt-historical developments. This structure is important for reasons of immersion and most importantly in HOI4 to implement an AI that chooses historical or plausible alt-historical paths. Otherwise there would be an anarchy of illogical focuses and the AI or even the player would choose the more gamey ones.
 
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IsaacCAT

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Some decisions, inventionc etc logically follow from one to the other especially in games that are supposed to be as historically authentic as PDX GSG. An example is the HOI4 national focus trees - there need to be some logical historical path that would lead to historical or even alt-historical developments. This structure is important for reasons of immersion and most importantly in HOI4 to implement an AI that chooses historical or plausible alt-historical paths. Otherwise there would be an anarchy of illogical focuses and the AI or even the player would choose the more gamey ones.

I am not saying that shall not be prerequisits, specially for historic events. However, some developments do not need to follow a tree path for the player. For the AI it is nice and desirable. For the player not so much.
 

Ater

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I'm sorry but I have a major problem with this DD and previous once for 2.0. I was kind of having fun playing patch 1.5 but thees DDs have gotten me so exited for 2.0 that I just can't play 1.5 any more!

But please take your time with the patch, I don't mind waiting for quality. :cool:
 
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manager2525

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Very interesting!

I am curious though how they will handle the more spread out cultures like Greek. Meaning that Cyrene makes sense to have access to Levantine traditions but not to Gaulic while Masilia to have access to Gaulic but not to Levantine and so on.
 
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Very interesting!

I am curious though how they will handle the more spread out cultures like Greek. Meaning that Cyrene makes sense to have access to Levantine traditions but not to Gaulic while Masilia to have access to Gaulic but not to Levantine and so on.
Hadn't even considered that...so at the moment if Massilia want to adopt their nearby Barbarian traditions, they will probably have to go and raid a Levantine Pop to integrate, then a North African pop to integrate, in order to unlock the node for Barbarian (or whatever the path is, but it looks like Greek only goes into Levantine and Persian traditions at the moment). :oops:
 
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Hadn't even considered that...so at the moment if Massilia want to adopt their nearby Barbarian traditions, they will probably have to go and raid a Levantine Pop to integrate, then a North African pop to integrate, in order to unlock the node for Barbarian (or whatever the path is, but it looks like Greek only goes into Levantine and Persian traditions at the moment). :oops:
This is what, for me, ruins the rework. At least, the military tradition in the tree could be dynamic based on POPs or even by script. (Levantine for Phrygia, Barbarian for Massilia, Italic for Epirus, Persian for Bosphorus Kingdom, Indian for Bactria...). I agree that too much dynamism would reduce replayability, but it shouldn't be as static as what is announced so far.
 
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Aigle édenté

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Would it be possible to keep the old technology money system, while each innovation or invention would make the price for further innovation/invention cheaper ? It would not only make research easier and more achievable, but it would also simulate the widespread of technology, making each new discovery easier thanks to the precedent one.
 

schnizzle

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This is already shaping up to be a great expansion that might very well bring imperator back to the player count it deserves. Considering the rework of innovations and military traditions I very much hope national ideas are next. For me this is the most important factor that needs to be changed (followed by barbarian incursions/migrations and maybe the implementation of a way of live system like in CK)
Just picking from a small pool of ideas is so much below the customisation potential ideas can have.
But after the last few great DDs I'm confident that you'll find a good solution to it.
 

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though the opportunity to craft your civilization in different ways is a core part of the vision I have for Imperator.
That is so amazing to read! It's nice playing a game, when the core vision of the dev align with your own.