Imperator Dev Diary : Population Growth and Map Changes

[Arheo]

Greetings all,

My part of today’s developer diary focuses on further changes coming to the population system in 2.0.

The changes to civilization value mentioned previously opened up further opportunities for a rethink on population growth. In 1.5 and before, cities were largely sustained by prolonged inwards migration. While this is not something I necessarily want to change, we’ll be splitting up where population growth comes from, with the dual intentions of letting cities stand their own ground when growing pops, and allowing for more engagement in how you promote growth in owned territory.

Firstly, base pop growth, and pop growth from stability have been reduced significantly.

Secondly, civilization value now contributes to population growth, simulating an increased growth rate in developed metropoles.

Thirdly, the population growth rate from stored food has been slightly reduced, however, the food consumption of tribesmen has been reduced, making it easier to boost growth in undeveloped tribal territories without also affecting the inherently low population capacity of said land.

Lastly, various sources of population growth have been slightly reduced to accommodate the new increases from civilization value.

What does this achieve?

Overall, there should be slightly less global growth in the average game, but still enough control to make long-term decisions valid, and for local factors to have much more of an impact on the fabric of the game.

These graphs show the 2.0 build prior to population changes, and post population changes. As you can see, the newer system (bottom) results in less total population over time, with a marginally nerfed warm period event being one of the main factors.

Games in 1.5 had a tendency to balloon in population density towards the endgame, due in part to the availability of inventions and modifiers affecting pop growth. With population now being intrinsically related to army sizes, we felt it was time to return to a more realistic* growth pattern that still allows the player to manipulate the world situation to their advantage.

Related to these changes, domestic migration has been slowed down slightly, and settlement production buildings (with the exception of the Legation) now reduce outward pop migration to almost 0 (unless there are extenuating circumstances such as occupation or overpopulation).

*The academic consensus appears to be that the usual global increase in population entered a bit of a plateau at around the time Imperator is set, to around the time it ends.

Research Efficiency

Somewhat tangentially to population changes, we’re also going to be gating the maximum research efficiency of nations. The base maximum research efficiency of nations will now begin at 125%. This value can be relatively easy to achieve for smaller nations, and should still offset technological advancement positively if focused upon, however, a great disparity in tech between larger empires and city-states was simply too easy to achieve.

We still want technology to be a valid choice in nation-building, however, and numerous nodes have been added to the invention tree, increasing the maximum research efficiency that a country can achieve - if you want to build a state as a shining beacon of technological advancement, this is entirely possible, but you’ll have to weigh up this decision against other valuable advancements.

With that, I’ll hand over to @Chopmist to take you through some of the map changes coming in 2.0!

[The eagle eyed among you also noticed the recurrence of the infamous ‘glowing borders’ bug in a recent screenshot. This has since been resolved.]

 

[PDX_Chop]

Marius Map Changes
The cartographically committed among you may have noticed that Anatolia and Phoenicia have received a facelift for the Marius patch.

These changes began as small tweaks to the region as we reworked the Antigonid split events, but grew as the patch progressed. In the end the whole peninsula was overhauled, Anatolia being an important region across the timespan of the game and to the Diadochi wars in particular, and one which was arguably not well represented pre-2.0.

Population centers, road routes, impassables, lakes, rivers, and more have been tweaked to better reflect the region in the early Hellenistic era. Many thanks to our betas and forumites for their research and suggestions, especially @Samitte and @Ketchup & friends, who will no doubt recognise their labors here.

The starting situation in Anatolia.

In addition southern Anatolia is now split between small native tags who cannot directly threaten Antigonus but make movement more awkward and soften the underbelly of the kingdom, representing the lax central control around these mountains.

Lycia and Olbe will begin as subjects of the Antigonids, who will retain the Persian road from Kelainai to Perge along with the Pamphylian coast unless they abandon the east. This will make the Cilician Gates much more important until these tribes are brought under proper control, and provide more native Anatolian starts, several cultures of which have now received formable tag decisions.

As part of these changes, the Anatolian culture group has been broken up, with the addition of cultures. Moreover, Bithynian has been moved from the Hellenic to the Dacian group, which has also received the new Mariandynian culture. Elsewhere, Paeonian has been added to the Illyrian group, and Talaiotic at long last added to the Occidental group.

A post-division view of southern Anatolia, northern Phoenicia, and Cyprus.

These changes will hopefully make fighting in and ruling over Asia more interesting, though other parts of the world haven’t been totally ignored.

The above screenshot also highlights the changes to mountain passes, the smallest of which are no longer ownable, instead being wastelands with very low combat width which serve as choke-points where a smaller force can hold off a larger. Cilicia Pedias is surrounded by such passes, with only the coastal route to Pamphylia avoiding these bottlenecks.

For those who like specifics, some of the notable changes are summarized below. That’s all from me!

Countries:

• Anatolian
  • Selgia, Sagalassia, Kotenna, Solymia, Pednelissia, Homonadia, Isauria, Larandia, Oroandia, Ambladia, Lalasia, Olbe, Tymbradia, Isindia, Arkyandia, Ormelia, Kibyratia, Oroandia, Maryandia, Kaukonia, Lycia
• Hellenic
  • Apollonia Pontica, Mesembria, Odessos, Krounoi, Kallatis, Tomis, Orgame, Arkades, Lappa, Issa, Chersos, Epidaurum, Apollonia, Tieion, Sesamos
• Illyrian
  • Maedia
• Levantine
  • Ibasim

Cultures:

• Anatolian
  • Pisidian, Milyadian, Oroandian, Cabalian, Lalasian, Cennataean, Morimenian, Cataonian
• Dacian
  • Bithynian, Mariandynian
• Illyrian
  • Paeonian
• Occidental
  • Talaiotic (!)

Formables:

• Lycia, Caria, Lydia, Cabalis, Milyas, Pamphylia, Lalasia, Isauria, Pisidia

Major Rivers:

• Cilicia
  • Ceyhan (Pyramus), Berdan (Cydnus)
• Britannia
  • Thames (Tamesis), Humber estuary (Abus)
• Scythia
  • Don (Tanais), Volga (Rha)
• Cisalpine Gaul
  • Po (Padus)
• Hispania
  • Ebro (Iberus)

The fertile Padus valley.

 

[Snow Crystal]

Am I reading too much into it, or does this mean that the game is in a closed beta?

We have had betas on the project since long before it went live, helping us test things and provide research.
As far as I know, all PDS projects do.

 

[Snow Crystal]

Thanks for the info! If I may ask, is there gonna be any livestream soon?

I believe we have one planned for Wednesday.

Could you please answer the question regarding the Hellenic Flavor Pack from the Deluxe Edition?

How will it impact the unit graphics (levies and legions)?

The unit models from the Flavor Pack will be used for Legions, whereas Levies will use the same model as other Greek nations.

@Arheo I don't know if it had been mentioned before, but how many innovations (the things we use to unlock inventions) do we get from a single tech level?

1. It is also possible to get it from other sources, though they are quite rare.

 

[Snow Crystal]

We long to see you again, but I think he was asking for a 2.0 livestream ...

We have wanted one for a while, but it is unclear when exactly what will happen. I don't know what the great Troyster has planned, or for when.

@Snow Crystal thanks a lot. If I understand correctly, there is also no restriction on how we use them? For example innovation gained from a civic tech can be spent on a military invention?

Correctomundo.

 

[Arheo]

FINALLY <3


I think this could be achieved by just let population in a territory increasing pop growth itself, atm "Stratera Balance"-mod does this by +0.03% PopGrowth per 10 inhabitants.

Just Civ Value looks a bit arbitrary for me.

In reality this would result in difficult-to-control snowballing, though I understand the attraction.

Is the initial decline in population due to all the wars going on at the start? Almost makes me feel bad.
I suppose we'll have less deaths now that carpet sieging isn't a thing anymore as well right?

Mostly yes; there also tends to be a lot of unit-migration in the starting period which 'hides' a lot of starting pops as migrant units.

 

[Arheo]

One last question from me about tech:
Is there a max level/cap of the advancements, which provide innovation points? E.g. if my faction reaches lvl 20 in martial advances, there will be no additional innovation point gained afterwards, because you can only gain 20 points per advancement type.
Or would it be theoretically possible to get 1000 innovation points, if I could manage to research that fast.

There's no explicit cap, though it'll get harder to acquire tech levels as time goes on, with ahead of time penalties.

 

[Arheo]

i have to ask a very important question, the one nobody asked in the history of paradox existance. am i allowed?

no

 

[PDX_Chop]

What culture did the previously Bithynian Greek states get? And is the Anatolian Pontic culture still present?

Seems I missed this, Pontic no longer exists in the Anatolian group and the Greeks in Heraclea Pontica and eastwards are now majority Pontic Hellenic (renamed from Greco-Pontic). West of that, Greeks on both sides of Marmara are now majority Propontic until Abdera in the north and Parion in the south.

Any chance this overhaul includes flavor related to Quinda, which Plutarch notes as having 1200 talents still in the treasury when Demetrius took it back after Ipsos?

As Samitte said it is now on the map, and there is also some related content in the Antigonid missions.

 

[PDX_Chop]

Maybe Alexandria ad Issum can be added instead of Myriandios. Finally both places were united. (According to my search.)

Myriandros will change names if the Antigonids develop Alexandreia kat Isson as a port of Antigoneia in their first mission, or it is owned by another Diadochi. It now has the Alexandria modifier regardless however.

 

[PDX_Chop]

Please add Hypanis river (Southern Buh) near Olbia !!!

Minor rivers weren't mentioned in the post, but the Hypanis has also been added