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Imperator Dev Diary 2020-14-12: The Longest Diary

Greetings all!

Today, you’ll be taken through a deep dive into the Antigonid mission trees coming in the Heirs of Alexander Content Pack.

Before we get started on that, however, I have a few housekeeping points to mention. Firstly, this will be the last dev diary of the year, as we are now leading up to Christmas vacations. Secondly, this also means that indeed, Marius and Heirs of Alexander will not be coming this year. This is a -very- comprehensive update, and we are going to take the time to get it right.

Yet you came here not for housekeeping, but for content; and content we shall provide.

1.png


Some of you noticed this button in an early version of the UI rework - the time has come to explain more.

Selecting Heirs in Monarchies

No longer will the line of succession be an immutable certainty, altered only by accidental death.

For a hefty cost in resources and perceived legitimacy; you will be able to grant your approval to anyone in your ruler’s direct line of succession. As you might imagine, this may have consequences amongst the other successors…

This minor feature was something we’ve wanted to add for a while, and in the course of doing so, it became apparent that this allowed for the creation of an additional government type; namely, an elective monarchy.

Elective Monarchy

Strictly speaking, there were no traditionally elective successions that we know of during our starting time period (yes, that is a challenge - prove me wrong!), however, the election of Kings was a tradition which exists in many of our core nation’s histories - including Rome.

Monarchy government types will be able to enable Elective Succession with a Law, as with all other succession types.

2.png


This variety of succession law greatly reduces all ordinary contributions to succession value; and instead gives all eligible characters in your nation a ‘vote’ towards the next monarch, chosen from amongst their valid successors.

The factors behind their preference for any given candidate are quite wide, including difference in stats, culture, religion, and quite prominently: age.

You will still be able to anoint a chosen candidate with the Anoint Successor feature, however this will be much less impactful than it is in other succession types.

In practice, elective monarchies can result in an unpredictable succession that yields you a monarch of advanced age - why would this be good?

Well, aside from being pretty fun, and encouraging out-of-the-box thinking in order to manipulate elections, successors in Elective Monarchies do not receive a pretender loyalty malus: they put all of their energy into getting themselves elected, and not stirring up trouble.

Unit Models

We’re not all the way there yet, but here’s a preview of the Scythian Levy:Legion models:

3.png



And the Iberic culture group Levy:Legion models:

4.png


And now it’s over to @Chopmist to take you through the Antigonid mission coming in the Heirs of Alexander DLC, in our latest attempt at creating the longest dev diary known to man.

/Arheo
 
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Looks good, looks immersive, you know what else is good immersive 100% certified historical fresh? That's right:

I'M ONCE AGAIN ASKING FOR THE REMOVAL OF PUNIC CULTURE AND RELIGION FROM THE GYMNESIAN ISLANDS.

Please not even funny anymore, Pitiüses (Ibiza, Formentera) islands phoenician settlements no disputes there, Mallorca and Menorca, no such luck pal, Give me Talayotic Culture or give me death!

''The end of the TCMi (Talayotic Culture Minorca) took place with the incorporation of the island to the Roman world, which, according to classical written sources, took place in 123 BC. During this long period which predates the Roman conquest, a series of cultural traits did not changed over time and, consequently, formed part of the same culture'' Source: http://menorcaheritageseminar.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/1_Talayotic-Culture-of-Menorca.pdf

There was some punic influence yeah, but like you can also say that of Italy, the Iberian Peninsula, Grecee, Gaul and i don't see you making them all punic culture, just the places were there was punic settlements should be, and Mallorca and Menorca there were not

I'm not the only one to point this out in here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/balearic-islands.1307909/

THERE ARE DOZENS OF US DOZENS

EDIT: Attaching previous post of mine replying to another DD: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...5th-of-june-2020.1399409/page-4#post-26662539 TO PROVE THAT MY DETERMINATION WILL NOT WANE TILL THE ISSUE IS RESOLVED
Don't worry, I've got this one.

I am once again.png

This is why I shouldn't go to bed at 6am...
 
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To me the Antigonid kingdom have always been one of the more interesting starts, both playing as the nation and watching them when playing as other nations. So much happens early on with risk of implosion and wars on every front.

I really like the new mission trees and it's going to be interesting both to try them out as a players and to watch what the AI chooses. I just have one major problem with them and that is that you don't get a follow up tree if you succeed in the beginning. You only get it if you fail. I really whish there was another three that you only get if you succeed in the beginning so that you get a follow up no matter if you fail or succeed in the beginning.

I really don't like having to fail on purpose in the beginning to be able to get a follow up mission three.
 
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To me the Antigonid kingdom have always been one of the more interesting starts, both playing as the nation and watching them when playing as other nations. So much happens early on with risk of implosion and wars on every front.

I really like the new mission trees and it's going to be interesting both to try them out as a players and to watch what the AI chooses. I just have one major problem with them and that is that you don't get a follow up tree if you succeed in the beginning. You only get it if you fail. I really whish there was another three that you only get if you succeed in the beginning so that you get a follow up no matter if you fail or succeed in the beginning.

I really don't like having to fail on purpose in the beginning to be able to get a follow up mission three.

There will be one additional mission tree for all Diadochi as follow up, if they succeed with their specific mission trees - also for the Antigonids, if they secure their position in the early game. I guess this tree is about the restoration of Alexanders Empire, which fits very well for the Antigonids.
 

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Looks good, looks immersive, you know what else is good immersive 100% certified historical fresh? That's right:

I'M ONCE AGAIN ASKING FOR THE REMOVAL OF PUNIC CULTURE AND RELIGION FROM THE GYMNESIAN ISLANDS.

Please not even funny anymore, Pitiüses (Ibiza, Formentera) islands phoenician settlements no disputes there, Mallorca and Menorca, no such luck pal, Give me Talayotic Culture or give me death!

''The end of the TCMi (Talayotic Culture Minorca) took place with the incorporation of the island to the Roman world, which, according to classical written sources, took place in 123 BC. During this long period which predates the Roman conquest, a series of cultural traits did not changed over time and, consequently, formed part of the same culture'' Source: http://menorcaheritageseminar.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/1_Talayotic-Culture-of-Menorca.pdf

There was some punic influence yeah, but like you can also say that of Italy, the Iberian Peninsula, Grecee, Gaul and i don't see you making them all punic culture, just the places were there was punic settlements should be, and Mallorca and Menorca there were not

I'm not the only one to point this out in here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/balearic-islands.1307909/

THERE ARE DOZENS OF US DOZENS

EDIT: Attaching previous post of mine replying to another DD: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...5th-of-june-2020.1399409/page-4#post-26662539 TO PROVE THAT MY DETERMINATION WILL NOT WANE TILL THE ISSUE IS RESOLVED
Based
 
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Dear @Chopmist, thanks for the reply.

After reading some comments (@Marcus Pica @R Rex and @Sadrallah Chaim Al-Adnani ) we have taken a closer look the screenshots (In this DD and the previous ones).

We've found some troubling stuff:

16.png

macro_builder_destroy_building.PNG

I. Alexandria ad Issum is still not implemented!

It should be between Myriandos and Issos.
  • Should be a city (founded by Alexander himself)
  • Alexandria modifier
  • strategic location: it should control the Syrian gates
  • remained important through the whole period and later.
Dear @Trin Tragula , you know about the issue. It’s surprising since at least 1 other currently absent Alexandria (Alexandria by the Latmus) IS fixed. (especially surprizing because of II.)


II. Two tiles in Cilicia are removed:
  • Phlaouiopolis and Sipha are merged into 1 tile (Pindenisson)
  • Thebai Kilikias is replaced by Adanos and the current Adanos is deleted.
Can you explain why it was done?

Everywhere else the number of tiles will be either increased or remains the same.

why it’s not good:
  • Cilicia becomes a more important region now (Seleucid mission), with warfare there more common. But less tiles means less opportunity for tactical maneuvers, forts etc.
  • Phlaouiopolis and Sipha have different terrain (Plains and Hills), merging them doesn’t make sense.
  • According to DARE, the new location of Adanos (Adana) seems to be more accurate, but a replacement tile for Augusta (Thebai Kilikias) could easily be carved out of the impassable terrain north of it while leaving the bulk of it in place. Why wasn’t it done?
  • NOT removing these tiles would allow a better looking AND historically accurate border between Cilicia Trachea and Cilicia Pedias along the river.
I and II. is a really bad combo for Cilicia.

What do @Sadrallah Chaim Al-Adnani @Samitte and @crownsteler think about this?

2.png

III.Your’re changing Oros Libanos and Bargylos Mons into impassable terrain. This is reasonable, but what happens to the Cedar of the Gods modifier that increases wood output?

Without these 2 tiles:
  • North Phoenicia becomes notably less valuable.
  • You’ve erased notable regional flavour.

IV. Cities created by missions.

Multiple missions create cities in food-producing settlements, doing that violates the game’s meta and effectively harms the player or AI.
12.png

  • 3 out of 4 Attract Greek colonists choices, 3 (Maked, Kuna and Magarsa) produce food. (Grain, livestock and fish respectively). This leaves Trapezon as the only viable option and makes the whole mission a trap or fake choice.
  • Moving the city from Pherai to Pagasai may be historically accurate. But as Pagasai produces grain!
You already got complaints (e.g here and here) about poorly designed generic missions that demand to build things in nonsensical places.

WHY are doing this? Depending on how many new missions do this, the new trees might actually cripple the diadochi.


5.png

V. The rework in Caria looks good, but it seems Milet didn’t get any new tiles. Since all other minors have more now. And their current Ally Istros will be a feudatory of Thrace, removing the alliance.

Did you check what mean it means for Balance? will Milet still be able to defend itself?


Depending on how movements of armies and fleets will be changed:

VI Tamassos and Chytroi connect opposing coastal tiles on Cyprus directly. This might provide fast avenues across the island. This somewhat reduces the importance of the new impassable mountain. We’ve already proposed a solution to this: cut both tiles in 2 (east and west), adding 2 new tiles (Ledra and Idalion).

The majority of the new chnages look good

VII.
With many new islands in the Aegean, sea tiles might need adjustment.
  • 1 fleet could block too many straits
  • Pirate havens with the new buildable port mechanics?

The majority of the new chnages look good, but the things listed above ARE problematic.

Dear devs, we hope you'll read this and rework these things before releasing 2.0!
 
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With many new islands in the Aegean, sea tiles might need adjustment.

Another issue with those islands is that most of those are absolutely tiny, if you're worried about balance, this is a a huge balance issue. They need a new terrain type with a very low pop cap, something like -60-75%. With a few exceptions these were not major population centres. Telos even at its height wouldnt have had more then 1500 pops. In my opinion its ridiculous to fill out the Aegean even more, its already got a crazy high province density compared to the population those islands could sustain. Heck, some of them are barely more then glorified rocks. There are many parts of the map that could use more province density - the Aegean, and especially tiny mountainous islands like Tilos, Simi and from what it looks like Nisiros, arent worth the extra thinking the AI needs to do.
 
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There will be one additional mission tree for all Diadochi as follow up, if they succeed with their specific mission trees - also for the Antigonids, if they secure their position in the early game. I guess this tree is about the restoration of Alexanders Empire, which fits very well for the Antigonids.

But from my understanding you'll get that one at the end no matter the route you go? You will get that one at the end even if you go the failing route.

If you go the failing rout you get a extra "bonus" three, if you succed you don't. I would love for it to be unique threes for them booth.
 
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But from my understanding you'll get that one at the end no matter the route you go? You will get that one at the end even if you go the failing route.

If you go the failing rout you get a extra "bonus" three, if you succed you don't. I would love for it to be unique threes for them booth.

I understand your desire, but so you have at least one special mission tree more and not only one, if you succeed to secure the Antigonid position.

But I wonder, if the devs change the alliance possibility between the Antigonids, Thrace and Egypt in 2.0. If they do, it requires some sneaky strategies to not fail in the early game and keep the antigonid realm together.
 
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Lord Lambert, looks like you have your work cut out for you...RIP your vocal cords :D

Seriously though, all these changes...it just speaks one thing:

RELEASE A BETA FOR US YOUR LOYAL BETA TESTERS! ;)

Now, go and rest with your well earned holidays Dev team!...and stay safe!! Go watch cnn for quality content and info like I do!
Yes yes.
 

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Another issue with those islands is that most of those are absolutely tiny, if you're worried about balance, this is a a huge balance issue. They need a new terrain type with a very low pop cap, something like -60-75%. With a few exceptions these were not major population centres. Telos even at its height wouldnt have had more then 1500 pops.
adding these small islands increases tactical options. Adding them is not bad.

But you are right about spamming megacities there.

Here’s an improved version of your idea:

Prohibit constructing of Aqueducts on single-tile islands.
  • limits pop capacity
  • realism: impossible to build them across the sea
  • Islands could still have different terrain (mountain, plain, forest etc.)
I really don't like having to fail on purpose in the beginning to be able to get a follow up mission three.
If you go the failing rout you get a extra "bonus" three, if you succed you don't. I would love for it to be unique threes for them booth.
I understand your desire, but so you have at least one special mission tree more and not only one, if you succeed to secure the Antigonid position.
The Antigonids will be exactly like France, you have to repeat the historical fail to unlock new stuff (FF and Vichy focus trees as France, extra missions as Antigonids).
 
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Prohibit constructing of Aqueducts on single-tile islands.
  • limits pop capacity
  • realism: impossible to build them across the sea
  • Islands could still have different terrain (mountain, plain, forest etc.)

I would like to see in a future update a change to the pop limit/capacity. I want building effects almost reworked (effects and some enhancements to the buildings, but not a new building system) and combined with that, I would remove pop capacity increase from buildings and introduce other ways to do that. That would solve the problem of the unproportional high amount of Aqueducts in the current building and city system. Maybe give Aqueducts a very small percentage increase of pop capacity or just stick with something completely different. With modifiers you still can limit small islands of becoming mega cities with any new way to increase pop capacity.

But as long as we would have to wait for such an update, your idea would be a quick and fine interim solution!
 
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However, as I'm native of the Cilicia, Mopsouestía Port is wrong, definitely. I hope you'll rearrange it settlement's status and remove it's port. Actually, even Ceyhan river doesn't allow allow the port there!

Many rivers were much more navigable in the ancient past. Mopsuestia definitely had a port in the past. (As did Adana and Tarsos). The Periplus of Pseudo-Skylax mentions the Pyramos is navigable beyond Mallos, Strabo too mentions the Pyramos is navigable (and he has personally visited the area). In medieval times when we have some clearer sources, we know it was the last shipping port on the Pyramos of importance (there might have been another, small port further upstream, but with the trade routes crossing at Mopsuestia it was of no importance.).
 
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Will "Subject progression system (aka Vassal Rework)" come back in the future? Was looking forward to it :)
 
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Don Wing

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Yes, Islands (minor,small islands) should need a feature of limiting pop, perhaps a new terrain type, Island/minor island, wich according to actual game system still could have climate feature as cold, arid, etc.

- Small Islands should have similar pop cap as deserts.

ALSO about terrain:
Mayor Rivers and Farmland should have it´s bonus increase, perhaps from 10% to 12%
Farmland pop increase also food prod. form 3 to 3.5
Forest: construction cost -5%

ALSO: DISEASE, SANITATION, HEALTH, should be added as a feature
 
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Phil Carter

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I stopped playing Imperator half a year ago (after 200 hours). But looks like these updates will bring me back :) Looking forward to Marius and Heirs of Alexander!
 
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Scanz

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Make please menu on the right corner like in all PDX games. no need to invent a bike with square wheels that will not be comfortable for all players
 

ValaraukoIV

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Looks really nice! The mission trees for Thrace and the Antigonids seem very promising! The different paths of the antigonids should probably make the game in the eastern med a lot more interesting, adding a lot of replayability

They seem quiter a bit better, or at least more interesting than the Seleucids and a lot better than the Ptolemys to be frank. The Ptolemys especially seem a bit lackluster to me. The fact that they do not seem to have the ability to try and attract greek settlers while the Antigonids and Seleucids do seems very strange to me. I have to of course look what the missions do exactly, when it comes out, but I do hope that there are at least some things about trade across the indian ocean. Ofc it only became very important during roman times, but why wouldnt a stronger, better led ptolemaic egypt not try and exploit those lucrative routs
 
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