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Imperator Dev Diary, 10th of February 2020

Hi all,

As the eagle-eyed amongst you noticed last week, I included a subtle hint upon the subject of today’s DD.

Accompanying the Deity rework that you have already been introduced to, we’re working on a dynamic Holy Sites feature. In keeping with the organic way that Pantheons and deities work, we wanted holy sites to be entirely within player control - something you could dedicate, destroy, and utilise, without having a strict, pre-existing list of sites from day 1.


How will they work?

Any territory can be designated a Holy Site to a Deity which exists as part of your pantheon, and which does not currently have a designated Holy Site. The territory needs to be of the same dominant parent religion as the deity, and there will be a substantial cost for doing so. There can only be one holy site for a deity in the world (consider them a parent temple): if you want to acquire the site for a deity in your pantheon yet it is owned by someone else, you’ll need to resort to more violent means.

If you own and control the holy site dedicated to a deity, the passive and active effects of that deity will be increased. They will have a ‘level’ which is tied directly to the city status of the territory in which they are placed. This ties into some further goodies which I’ll explain more about in a future diary.

You can, of course own holy sites dedicated to Deities that are not part of your pantheon, though you will receive no additional bonuses for doing so.


What about historical sites?

There will be a bunch of pre-scripted holy sites such as the temple of Apollo at Delphi, or the Asclepeion at Epidaurus. Many deities will not have pre-scripted sites.


Can we destroy holy sites, once they’re created?

You will be able to desecrate holy sites, effectively removing the dedication for ephemeral bonuses, and allowing the site to be rededicated elsewhere. This will harm your relations with countries who worship this deity as part of their pantheon.


As a bonus, here’s a WIP wireframe of how your new Religion View might look, after the 1.4 update:


Zkmi1-DVwaAj9tPHK9vWJh0tx1VuHwy8dAaoESiBl7EtkkQwe1IuflG6a4EkSrl7QX1q6hyq2YCkAq_pnql0_MbCyOzvgbIjU4WaHDVTPyedMrgZ267BVlbOxMdcUT4vVCxijq6e



Next week, we’ll be back to have a look at some of the Missions that will be coming as part of the paid Content Pack: Magna Graecia, that will accompany the 1.4 release, as well as a look at the revised holdings mechanic, which contains a new take on character land ownership.
 

Rubidium

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Will Judaism have Jerusalem as a holy site? I ask because it appears to me that Judaism might get a short deal due to its monotheistic nature. May it have more connections in that regard to figures and events in the religion that occurred much as it appears that the holy sites in this for the polytheistic faiths are connected to deities themselves. Just thinking of this is a testament to how unique Judaism is in respect to this period of history.
Hopefully Judaism (and maybe Zoroastrianism) have unique mechanics to deal with the difference between monotheism and polytheism.
 

The Founder

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That is actually not the case presently. Just as with all current Paradox Games, the DLCs in use for any multiplayer is dictated by the DLCs that the host owns. Punic Wars included (have tested this personally already)
The idea seems to be that the savegame resides with teh host.
The other participants? That can change all the time. So using their DLC's really will just cause issues.
 

ManusDomini

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How will this work for monotheistic or dualistic religions like Judaism and Zoroastrianism?
Premodern Zoroastrianism was not dualistic, it varied from henotheism to polytheism, but a pseudo-monotheistic approach to our holy Avesta was only developed by the 19th century due to pressure on Indian Parsis from Anglo-American missionaries and the translation works of Martin Haug. In reality, Zoroastrianism - and especially not the Armenian Zoroastrianism which is the main branch present in the actual game - really shouldn't be presented as monotheist like it currently does, but be described as what they actually are in this period: polytheist worship of the Yazatas and Ahura Mazda.
 

The Founder

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How will this work for monotheistic or dualistic religions like Judaism and Zoroastrianism?

The new mechanic for religions will need some thinking to work well with more innovative religions lile judaism, zoroastrianism and buddhism
I have a simple Solution: Have the same god for all 4 selections.

People often converted to Monotheism because "hey, it is just another god to keep track off."
It took a while until Monotheism went all Highlander on the other gods.
 

Moments Hunter

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Holy sites should also increase migration attraction of the city they are build in.

And some crazy ideas:
1) export of relegion - what if your religious power/attraction is so strong that people in other states would slowly convert to your religion? Simply because your gods are that powerful or sexy. Of course convertion will start at borders but then POPS will migrate and spread your religion further.
2) banning selected religions in your state - I would like to have options in Laws section to ban minor religions in my state. This would of course increase (extremely) unhappiness and rebellion risk but should help with convertion.
3) I would like to experience some stories with mythological flavor (history purists close your eyes now) - straight up copying Age of Mythology here...but what about fighting some cult of Kronos? Or some death cult or end of the world cult or holy snake whatever. Sequence of events which could result in creating cult's holy site which would spread this crazy religion. Or appereance of mythological creatures (at least what people would think).

Anyway, good to see more content being created. Keep it coming!
 
Last edited:

MensIuguolo

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If you own and control the holy site dedicated to a deity, the passive and active effects of that deity will be increased. They will have a ‘level’ which is tied directly to the city status of the territory in which they are placed. This ties into some further goodies which I’ll explain more about in a future diary.
YES YES YES
 

Gurkhal

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I'm getting more and more excited about this "deity system". Paradox should get ready for long and detailed lists of various pantheons from the ancient world that players want to add into the game. Myself included. :p
 

REDrake

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I'm getting more and more excited about this "deity system". Paradox should get ready for long and detailed lists of various pantheons from the ancient world that players want to add into the game. Myself included. :p
Obviously. After all, what are players for their countries if not gods themselves?
We should get the option of putting our names for gods. Caligula did it...
 

Don Wing

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This addition is great, historically many romans end up worshipping Isis, Mithra, etc while still worshipping roman (hellenic) gods, this is a great FUN and HISTORICAL development to the game.
 

tribunus_plebis

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Just to throw some marketing information your way: I would readily throw down €5 for a set of unique hellenic (or other religious group) diety portraits. If it were to include some 3d art for unique sanctuaries I could see this increase.

I am very much in favour of adding more unique art in game. I quite like the art (and music) style and I'd love to see more of it. Also because I having a hard time of replicating a suitable art style fro in game. ^^ (Cosmetic DLCs are also by far the best kind of DLCs, as they are completely optional.)

I think €5 is more than fair for optional cosmetic upgrades, I'm totally in for that if it brings artwork for specific deities, particularly the Hellenic Pantheon. I really like visual artwork as an immersive and flavor tool.

Regarding the 3d for major religious sites, will this be featured? I mean, considering that the model Hellenistic Temples as Zeus and Artemis are already present (and that in architectural terms, there were not massive variations from one another) this should be quite easy to implement no?...
 

Arheo

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The new mechanic for religions will need some thinking to work well with more innovative religions lile judaism, zoroastrianism and buddhism

To do some of the mentioned religions justice, we'd need a new system. That's not going to be part of this update, but something I'm considering for the future. There's only so many hours in the day :(
 

Todie

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To do some of the mentioned religions justice, we'd need a new system. That's not going to be part of this update, but something I'm considering for the future. There's only so many hours in the day :(

Even if you cant fit in sepparate mechanics / systems, im sure you can go some way towards making them justice through event pools and modifiers etc - like a larger happiness boon for jewish pops when their omen gets used, but no / less effect on jewish pops for more generalized religious hapiness boons (from poletheistic omens or events?)

I would swear @Trin Tragula mentioned a few weeks back that judaism would get special treatment...

There's only so many hours in the day :(

maybe once you hire those new content designers, the hours won’t seem quite as short anymore.
 

Trin Tragula

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I would swear @Trin Tragula mentioned a few weeks back that judaism would get special treatment...

What I said was that Judaism is not a focus at this point but it will have some rules that separates it a bit from the rest.
As Arheo says we would need a whole update to do Monotheistic religions justice most likely :)
 

Rubidium

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What I said was that Judaism is not a focus at this point but it will have some rules that separates it a bit from the rest.
As Arheo says we would need a whole update to do Monotheistic religions justice most likely :)
I guess we'll have to wait until the eventual Josephus update.

But hopefully there will be at least something to keep Judaism from usually having a pantheon of "the LORD, Isis, Set and Poseidon."
 

Denkt

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But hopefully there will be at least something to keep Judaism from usually having a pantheon of "the LORD, Isis, Set and Poseidon."
Monotheistic religions wont have a Parthenon.

In the Archimedes update the old Omen system will be removed to give place for a system of Patron Deities. In a polytheistic religion the player will have power over which deities are considered patron deities in a State Pantheon, gaining access to different passive bonuses as well as time limited omens.