HOI4 Dev Diary - The Baltic States 1/2 and Poland 3/2

Hello and welcome to another dev diary for the Barbarossa patch! Today I’m back with you to talk about not one, not two, but three new focus trees coming with the upcoming expansion: Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia!
Baltic States Map.png


The Baltic States were in a difficult position in the build-up to world war 2; only recently liberated from Russian and German rule and less than 20 years on from a bloody struggle against both imperialist powers. In the 30s, each of the states had established authoritarian rule in fear of German and Soviet invasions, and a player hoping to survive as a Baltic state must take some extreme measures to overcome these overwhelming odds...

The Baltic States, like the Chinese, will share some branches of their focus tree while other branches will be unique to each country. This week I am going to talk about the shared branches; the industrial branch and the communist political branch.
Baltic Total Focuses.png


Starting up with the industrial branch, each Baltic state was in something of a similar situation economically; relying heavily on foreign investment and equipment for their industry and armed forces. As such, each Baltic state may decide if they wish to put their faith in the democratic nations to supply their economy, or the Axis powers to fuel the war machine.
Baltic Industry Branch.png


The other common issue facing the Baltics was that they had previously been occupied by the Soviets and Germany, and their industry was sorely lacking. So, the Balts can attract workers to their capital and begin their rearmament and develop their research sector.
Attract Workers.png


Lastly, by modernising their industry, the Baltic states may become much more self-sufficient and end their reliance on foreign powers to fuel their war machine. They may expand raw resource production in their nation, which for Estonia and Latvia means the development of their on-map resources.

Lithuania however was uniquely very reliant on its agriculture, and thus starts the game with a variant of the “Agrarian Society” national spirit which can be slowly turned into a great benefit via their industrial tree.
Natural Resources.png


Next up, each of the Baltic States had recently endured bloody struggles against the USSR, so popular support for communism was vanishingly low. A Baltic state hoping to overthrow the government and establish an independent communist state must do so through war.
Estonia civil war.png


The Balts can either choose to rely on the Soviet intervention or attempt to reconcile relations with the Baltic lower classes and try to maintain their independence while establishing communism on their own.
Restore Workers Republic.png


Once the revolution is done and your nation is communist, the player will have the option to re-establish the Lithuania-Belarus SSR. In the case you sided with the Soviets, the USSR will grant you their half of Belarus with the rest coming either through war or the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
Lithuania Belarus Soviets.png


If you are independent however, Belarus must be acquired through adversarial means. The Baltic state must propagandise support for unification in Belarus similar to the Spanish Civil War garrison control system. When time runs out, Belarus will be released and fight a civil war; the victor will be annexed into either the victorious Baltic nation or the USSR.
Latvia Belarus decisions.png


The Baltic nation will also be able to try to convert their neighbours to communism through a propaganda war. No matter which path the Baltic player takes to establish socialism across the Baltics; they will be able to form the United Baltic SSR.
Baltic Socialist Republic.png


From there, they may use their newfound strength against Scandinavia and Poland and achieve communism across the entire Baltic Sea.
Baltic Warpath.png

That’s all for the Baltic States this week, next week I will be talking about the entirely unique political trees for each Baltic state.



Something worth bringing up here is we did make some changes to the Polish tree since we last talked about it. Firstly, I do just want to show off some of the new focus icons we got since I wrote those dev diaries and I feel like our artists have done a really great job. There are more, but I don't want to spoil all of them just yet! ;)
Poland focus icons.png


We originally planned to have Poland get an off-map reactor to essentially get them control of 1 nuke during play as an exile nation. This to reflect their role in the nuclear project, but we were already a bit on the fence on if this was too immersion breaking for the gameplay purpose, and it seemed many of you thought so too so we removed the off-map reactor and moved the focus to the industry branch.
Poland atomic bomb.png


Next, I managed to find time to implement Karl Albrecht von Habsburg as an option for monarchist Poland. He has his own branch which involves pressing the Habsburg claim on Czechoslovakia.
Karl Albrecht I.png

Habsburg Path.png


Claiming Czechoslovakia uses the same decision system as claiming Lithuania for the Commonwealth branch, and once the two nations are united, the ambition of West-Slavic unification is realised and the new nation may declare itself protector of the western Slavic peoples living in Germany.
West Slavia.png


Karl Albrecht I was known for the service he provided to the Polish army, and it’s unlikely that willingness to serve would vanish upon becoming King. So, as Soldier-King, he will gain a plethora of unique personality traits as well as becoming a field marshal.
Soldier King.png


With Hungary aligning itself with Poland’s enemies, Karl Albrecht can demand that Horthy step down in favour of Otto von Habsburg and force Hungary down their Habsburg path, diplomatically aligning them with Habsburg Poland.
Demand Habsburg Rule.png


Galicia-Lodomeria represented Habsburg rule over Poland and as such, Karl Albrecht may restore the Diet of Galicia which as well as giving the Royal Sejm national spirit, moves the nation’s capital to Krakow. While this centralises the capital between Poland and Czechoslovakia and surrounds the capital in defensible hills, the old Polish capital is also very close to the German border and may prove an easy target…
Diet of Galicia.png


I feel I should also clarify the mechanics behind electing a monarch. When the Fulfil the 5th of November Act focus is complete, candidates come forward and present themselves to be King. So while it would make little sense for the regency council to reach out and invite candidates like Pavel Bermondt-Avalov to be King, Pavel is certainly the type to try and present himself for King.
Cossack King Event.png


The final thing I'd like to mention is that during testing we noticed that it was quite a chore to scroll back and forth between the Polish tree with it being so wide, so I implemented a system where the Polish tree automatically compacts itself when you've chosen a political path.
Tree compacting.png


That’s all for this week, next week we will be covering the paths unique to each Baltic state and for now I’ll leave you with this teaser.
funny_hat_dot_png.png
 
  • 280Like
  • 78Love
  • 61
  • 12
  • 6
  • 1Haha
Reactions:

es333

Lt. General
53 Badges
Apr 16, 2007
1.595
1.637
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Knights of Honor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
In 1922 Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Poland signed the Warsaw Accord - also know in Finnish 'reunavaltiosopimus' or in English literally 'a border state treaty'. Particularly due to the Polish motion, this treaty had an intention to create a counter reaction for the German and Soviet economic and political supremacy in the north- and northeastern Europe.

However, this treaty failed as the Finnish Parliament never ratified it and in 1935 Finland ultimately resigned the Warsaw Accord and instead announced supporting neutrality and the Nordic tendency from now on.

So Lithuania isn't Baltic? Joking aside, Finland was called a Baltic state before and after 1922. This treaty has very little to do with this. Anyway, I'll explain the terminology a bit:

To sum it up shortly. The "Baltic states" was a geographical term that denoted countries on the eastern shore of the Baltic sea. It became a geopolitical term after World War 2 and nowadays it is also seen as a cultural/mentality/identity term. That's why a lot of people falsely think that the Estonians are Balts although they're ethnically, culturally, historically and by mentality/identity unrelated to the Balts.

The mental change of the term "Baltic states" during the 20th century is a very interesting process. The modern notion of the 3 countries being "states" leaves an impression that they're somehow so similar and identical to each other that they can be called "states" instead of "countries". Of course anyone familiar with the area knows that the reality couldn't be further from that.

So there being no notion of Finland regarding this term in the game is actually fine as it would not make sense for 95% of people playing HOI 4 as they base their mental image of the area based on the information used nowadays and only a small amount of people very familiar with 20th century mental geography and geopolitics would understand why Finland would be tied to the other Baltic countries.

This topic isn't really crucial enough for any changes to be necessary.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Jopa79

Colonel
45 Badges
Aug 14, 2016
974
499
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
Finland was called a Baltic state before and after 1922. This treaty has very little to do with this.

I'm very well aware about Finland being the "fourth" Baltic State - particularly considered so by the foreign nations. And this is mainly derived because of the foreign nations knew very little of the Finnish identity if they knew it at all. In 1922 Finland had been independent only five years and I don't think the Finnish national spirits were familiar for many, but rather the European countries thought the Finns incorrectly as Baltic people.

Finland signing the Warsaw Accord indeed very strongly supported the false idea - Finland being one of the Baltic States - as it was signed with three other countries of which two were Baltic nations, or their language is still considered as Baltic or Balto-Slavic.

To sum it up shortly. The "Baltic states" was a geographical term that denoted countries on the eastern shore of the Baltic sea. It became a geopolitical term after World War 2

The assumption, Finland being a Baltic State came to refer as Finland was among the countries at the Baltic Sea that had gained independence from the Russian Empire. But while having and supporting the previous, also Poland should be considered as a Baltic State, further Polish language is part of the Balto-Slavic language family.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

es333

Lt. General
53 Badges
Apr 16, 2007
1.595
1.637
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Knights of Honor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
I'm very well aware about Finland being the "fourth" Baltic State - particularly considered so by the foreign nations. And this is mainly derived because of the foreign nations knew very little of the Finnish identity if they knew it at all. In 1922 Finland had been independent only five years and I don't think the Finnish national spirits were familiar for many, but rather the European countries thought the Finns incorrectly as Baltic people.
Estonia is called a Baltic state because foreign nations knew and know very little of the Estonian identity if they knew/know it at all. Most European countries thought/think the Estonians incorrectly as Baltic people. This is all identical to to Finland.

But what you don't understand is that in a game like HOI 4, the actual reality has been changed based on the opinions of people in 2020. It doesn't matter that people in pre-WW2 Europe were completely ignorant and wrong about Estonia/Finland and their identity. What matters is what they were seen as, not what they actually are.

Simple example: If Estonia would have remained independent after WW2 then nobody would even think about the Estonians being Baltic and in this alternate historical reality, Paradox would make HOI 4 and Estonia would have very little to do with the actual Baltic nations just because of the mental image of modern Europeans while in reality both Estonian & Finland were seen as Baltics before WW2.

When studying history, the modern narrative has to be thrown out of the head to understand the viewpoints of people actually living during the time period that is studied.

TL;DR Estonia and Finland have never been Baltic nations as "nation" is defined on culture, history, mentality and identity but everybody saw those 2 countries as a part of the Baltics pre-WW2. There's no reason to get worked up about this as no one is saying that Finland is Baltic in the modern era. In a few decades, the same thing that happened to Finland will happen to Estonia. If Estonia has existed even longer as an independent nation, then nobody will call Estonia, Baltic as more people (and foreign governments) will be more knowledgeable about countries which have existed for a while.
 

BusterKeaton15

Recruit
40 Badges
May 6, 2020
4
0
22
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Surviving Mars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
Hello and welcome to another dev diary for the Barbarossa patch! Today I’m back with you to talk about not one, not two, but three new focus trees coming with the upcoming expansion: Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia!
View attachment 717411

The Baltic States were in a difficult position in the build-up to world war 2; only recently liberated from Russian and German rule and less than 20 years on from a bloody struggle against both imperialist powers. In the 30s, each of the states had established authoritarian rule in fear of German and Soviet invasions, and a player hoping to survive as a Baltic state must take some extreme measures to overcome these overwhelming odds...

The Baltic States, like the Chinese, will share some branches of their focus tree while other branches will be unique to each country. This week I am going to talk about the shared branches; the industrial branch and the communist political branch.
View attachment 717412

Starting up with the industrial branch, each Baltic state was in something of a similar situation economically; relying heavily on foreign investment and equipment for their industry and armed forces. As such, each Baltic state may decide if they wish to put their faith in the democratic nations to supply their economy, or the Axis powers to fuel the war machine.
View attachment 717413

The other common issue facing the Baltics was that they had previously been occupied by the Soviets and Germany, and their industry was sorely lacking. So, the Balts can attract workers to their capital and begin their rearmament and develop their research sector.
View attachment 717414

Lastly, by modernising their industry, the Baltic states may become much more self-sufficient and end their reliance on foreign powers to fuel their war machine. They may expand raw resource production in their nation, which for Estonia and Latvia means the development of their on-map resources.

Lithuania however was uniquely very reliant on its agriculture, and thus starts the game with a variant of the “Agrarian Society” national spirit which can be slowly turned into a great benefit via their industrial tree.View attachment 717420

Next up, each of the Baltic States had recently endured bloody struggles against the USSR, so popular support for communism was vanishingly low. A Baltic state hoping to overthrow the government and establish an independent communist state must do so through war.
View attachment 717422

The Balts can either choose to rely on the Soviet intervention or attempt to reconcile relations with the Baltic lower classes and try to maintain their independence while establishing communism on their own.
View attachment 717423

Once the revolution is done and your nation is communist, the player will have the option to re-establish the Lithuania-Belarus SSR. In the case you sided with the Soviets, the USSR will grant you their half of Belarus with the rest coming either through war or the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
View attachment 717424

If you are independent however, Belarus must be acquired through adversarial means. The Baltic state must propagandise support for unification in Belarus similar to the Spanish Civil War garrison control system. When time runs out, Belarus will be released and fight a civil war; the victor will be annexed into either the victorious Baltic nation or the USSR.
View attachment 717425

The Baltic nation will also be able to try to convert their neighbours to communism through a propaganda war. No matter which path the Baltic player takes to establish socialism across the Baltics; they will be able to form the United Baltic SSR.
View attachment 717427

From there, they may use their newfound strength against Scandinavia and Poland and achieve communism across the entire Baltic Sea.
View attachment 717426
That’s all for the Baltic States this week, next week I will be talking about the entirely unique political trees for each Baltic state.



Something worth bringing up here is we did make some changes to the Polish tree since we last talked about it. Firstly, I do just want to show off some of the new focus icons we got since I wrote those dev diaries and I feel like our artists have done a really great job. There are more, but I don't want to spoil all of them just yet! ;)
View attachment 717428

We originally planned to have Poland get an off-map reactor to essentially get them control of 1 nuke during play as an exile nation. This to reflect their role in the nuclear project, but we were already a bit on the fence on if this was too immersion breaking for the gameplay purpose, and it seemed many of you thought so too so we removed the off-map reactor and moved the focus to the industry branch.
View attachment 717429

Next, I managed to find time to implement Karl Albrecht von Habsburg as an option for monarchist Poland. He has his own branch which involves pressing the Habsburg claim on Czechoslovakia.
View attachment 717430
View attachment 717436

Claiming Czechoslovakia uses the same decision system as claiming Lithuania for the Commonwealth branch, and once the two nations are united, the ambition of West-Slavic unification is realised and the new nation may declare itself protector of the western Slavic peoples living in Germany.
View attachment 717431

Karl Albrecht I was known for the service he provided to the Polish army, and it’s unlikely that willingness to serve would vanish upon becoming King. So, as Soldier-King, he will gain a plethora of unique personality traits as well as becoming a field marshal.
View attachment 717432

With Hungary aligning itself with Poland’s enemies, Karl Albrecht can demand that Horthy step down in favour of Otto von Habsburg and force Hungary down their Habsburg path, diplomatically aligning them with Habsburg Poland.
View attachment 717433

Galicia-Lodomeria represented Habsburg rule over Poland and as such, Karl Albrecht may restore the Diet of Galicia which as well as giving the Royal Sejm national spirit, moves the nation’s capital to Krakow. While this centralises the capital between Poland and Czechoslovakia and surrounds the capital in defensible hills, the old Polish capital is also very close to the German border and may prove an easy target…
View attachment 717434

I feel I should also clarify the mechanics behind electing a monarch. When the Fulfil the 5th of November Act focus is complete, candidates come forward and present themselves to be King. So while it would make little sense for the regency council to reach out and invite candidates like Pavel Bermondt-Avalov to be King, Pavel is certainly the type to try and present himself for King.
View attachment 717435

The final thing I'd like to mention is that during testing we noticed that it was quite a chore to scroll back and forth between the Polish tree with it being so wide, so I implemented a system where the Polish tree automatically compacts itself when you've chosen a political path.
View attachment 717437

That’s all for this week, next week we will be covering the paths unique to each Baltic state and for now I’ll leave you with this teaser.
View attachment 717449
That’s
Had some conversations with our Polish beta testers and we determined that "Zapadoslavia" doesn't make sense as a name as a Poland-lead union. So, when you annex Czechoslovakia you will get renamed to something along the lines of "The Kingdom of West Slavia".
that’s a nice name
 

Shaka of Carthage

General
12 Badges
Sep 7, 2017
1.946
1.447
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Zaptem

Recruit
Jun 24, 2021
1
5
Hi! I was going trough the Baltic states' focus trees, and I would like to point out a few awkward phrasings in the Latvian tree. As a native Latvian speaker some of them sound really bad and culturally ignorant. I am aware of the fact that the names most likely will be changed in the future but I would like to suggest some corrections which may make these names more historically accurate and may offer a deeper role playing experience. First of all if you by Diev's keepers refer to the Latvian pagan religion then in my opinion it should not be partially translated, just use the Latvian name Dievturi as it is the name of the religion. Secondly you should look into Latvian symbolism as the symbol you used for the focus 'The Old Ways' is a Lithuanian symbol and has nothing to do with Latvian culture. If you want to find Dievs' sign, you can literally google 'Dieva Zīme' and it is usually drawn as a baseless triangle (just the two sides) with three dots over it. Although in my opinion a much better fit would be 'Māras Zīme' as it represents one of the most important Gods of the Latvian pagan religion. Another good option would be 'Jumis Zīme' which is one of the most popular signs in Latvian culture, it represents wealth and good harvest.
 
  • 3
  • 2Like
Reactions:

LordHoth

Sergeant
76 Badges
Jan 3, 2012
78
56
  • Cities in Motion
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Darkest Hour
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Pride of Nations
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
This looks very promising.

Yet, parts of what is described here is also completely unrealistic—the Estonian SSR being a part of the Belorussian SSR, for example. I don't have many hopes that more realistic goals (for example, the Estonian SSR being given an option to get old Ingermanland which would be culturally more uniform with the Estonian mainland; also perhaps the areas around Pskov for a logical expansion of lands—it *should not* be that the only way to play the Baltic countries is to unify them!) but perhaps the developers will listen to these options. It would even be nice if there was a (very very very) small off-chance that foreign tensions cause the early 1920's hope of Finland-Estonia-Latvia-Lithuania-Poland to come true....

The few things I would mention:

- Both Latvia and Estonia should have at least one dockyard. Both of these countries had, by 1940, several submarines (Latvia had four old ones; Estonia two new ones that were built in the UK and in construction during 1936, ready and in operation 1937). The Estonian subs, when finished, were the pride of the Baltic Sea, and only the Polish Orzel-class was a newer design by the start of the war.
- The Estonians and Finns often (almost annually for a time) participated in joint military exercises (much more often than Estonia and Latvia which happened twice during the two decades), and Estonia should have a group of focusses that would bring it to Finland's side in the Soviet attack. The Estonian & Finnish fleets were supposed to mine the approaches to Tallinn and Helsinki in the Gulf of Finland while artillery could close off the Gulf at its narrowest to the east of Helsinki-Tallinn.
- It's highly misleading to describe the countries as unindustrialized.
- I also think it's highly misleading to say that the countries are incredibly anti-communist by default. For example, the last overt Communist action in Estonia, would have taken place in 1924; more than twelve years previously. The USSR was obviously the main threat to the countries' independence, but Germany was also considered as a possible enemy (the two Estonian naval simulation enemies were the USSR and Germany). Soviet propaganda, along with the violent suppression of the Participants in the War of Liberation Party, would give the Communists better odds than what I think are described.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Hadar

Corporal
31 Badges
Aug 10, 2006
28
3
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities in Motion
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
Actually I would love to see more fringe candidates for Polish throne. Some may have much weaker tree but still it would be cool to try them out. For example:
- Hans Heinrich XV von Hochberg with claims for Silesia, Lusatia and Meissen, basically suicide option because Germany and Czechoslovakia would be extremely hostile against him (while any Polish monarch should be banned from joining Comintern) during interwar period he campaigned for Silesia independence (in Silesia biggest extent, because he had possession everywhere in Silesia),
- Prince Kiril of Bulgaria with possibility of alliance with Bulgaria and taking Bulgarian throne after death of his older brother,
- Janusz Franciszek Radziwiłł - 100% conservative in XIX century sense, hostile against nationalist, bonus to agriculture and air force, in good relationship with Sanation,
- Zdzisław Lubomirski - buff to underground state and diplomacy, supports democracy, tries to mediate internal conflicts between nationalist and Sanation,
- Wilhelm von Urach - alliance with Germany, claims on Lithuania and big boost to industry (he was chief engineer of Daimler-Benz, but during the France occupation he was chief engineer of Renault), son of Mendog II, he would happily became German puppet and exchange everything west of Vistula for all Lithuanian and Kievan Rus' lands
- etc.

As starting point, in 1918 following people were considered for Polish throne (copy paste from Polish Wikipedia so sorry for Polish versions of names:
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Królestwo_Polskie_(1917–1918)#Kandydaci_do_Korony

just choose those who still have any sense in 1936 (or closest relative). :p
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Hadar

Corporal
31 Badges
Aug 10, 2006
28
3
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities in Motion
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
Wait, really? A Hohenzollern? A protestant king on the Polish throne would be a sight to see xD
He committed suicide in 1920, so he is no longer a option in 1936. But to be honest he was probably suggestion of Wilhelm II rather than somebody that Polish Regency Council wanted to see on Polish throne. :p
 
  • 1
Reactions:

gtu660

Private
4 Badges
Feb 17, 2018
11
0
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Surviving Mars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
Poland stuff you say?
 

Hadar

Corporal
31 Badges
Aug 10, 2006
28
3
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities in Motion
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
Yeah, I love Central and East Europe althist :p I play mostly EU games and majority of my campaigns are in Europe somewhere between North Sea, Mediterranean Sea, Caspian Sea and White Sea. :p

For example just after WW1 there were fringe plans to perform reslavinisation by Poland and Czechoslovavia formerly Slavic territories in Germany (everything east of Limes Saxoniae and Limes Sorabicus) but it was so unlikely that nobody took it serious. But if in 1939 Poland without allies would be miraculously able to win with Germany, dethrone Nazis and occupy Germany then I can see possibility that someone could try to implement those plans - put Polish-German border on Weser and Fulde or Elbe and Saale and give Germans options - other you leave to "Germany Proper" or you start speak some Polish, Polabian (Closest relative to Polish, spoken West of Elbe as late as 18th century. The last native speaker of Polabian, a woman, died in 1756, and the last person who spoke limited Polabian died in 1825.) or Sorbian. And I would love to have such fringe options (of course something like that should extremely hard but still cool achievement for hardcores ;P). So I am always for althist stuff, as long as it is not notal sci-fi. :p
 

Matihood1

Colonel
17 Badges
Mar 7, 2014
978
472
Yeah, I love Central and East Europe althist :p I play mostly EU games and majority of my campaigns are in Europe somewhere between North Sea, Mediterranean Sea, Caspian Sea and White Sea. :p

For example just after WW1 there were fringe plans to perform reslavinisation by Poland and Czechoslovavia formerly Slavic territories in Germany (everything east of Limes Saxoniae and Limes Sorabicus) but it was so unlikely that nobody took it serious. But if in 1939 Poland without allies would be miraculously able to win with Germany, dethrone Nazis and occupy Germany then I can see possibility that someone could try to implement those plans - put Polish-German border on Weser and Fulde or Elbe and Saale and give Germans options - other you leave to "Germany Proper" or you start speak some Polish, Polabian (Closest relative to Polish, spoken West of Elbe as late as 18th century. The last native speaker of Polabian, a woman, died in 1756, and the last person who spoke limited Polabian died in 1825.) or Sorbian. And I would love to have such fringe options (of course something like that should extremely hard but still cool achievement for hardcores ;P). So I am always for althist stuff, as long as it is not notal sci-fi. :p
I mean, it sounds cool on paper but I just want to remind you that Poles and Czechs weren't even a majority in all parts of their own countries. A reslavization of eastern Germany wouldn't have been possible because there wouldn't have been enough people to reslavize those regions with.
 

RamboBilambo

Sergeant
42 Badges
Jun 13, 2019
63
252
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
Yeah, I love Central and East Europe althist :p I play mostly EU games and majority of my campaigns are in Europe somewhere between North Sea, Mediterranean Sea, Caspian Sea and White Sea. :p

For example just after WW1 there were fringe plans to perform reslavinisation by Poland and Czechoslovavia formerly Slavic territories in Germany (everything east of Limes Saxoniae and Limes Sorabicus) but it was so unlikely that nobody took it serious. But if in 1939 Poland without allies would be miraculously able to win with Germany, dethrone Nazis and occupy Germany then I can see possibility that someone could try to implement those plans - put Polish-German border on Weser and Fulde or Elbe and Saale and give Germans options - other you leave to "Germany Proper" or you start speak some Polish, Polabian (Closest relative to Polish, spoken West of Elbe as late as 18th century. The last native speaker of Polabian, a woman, died in 1756, and the last person who spoke limited Polabian died in 1825.) or Sorbian. And I would love to have such fringe options (of course something like that should extremely hard but still cool achievement for hardcores ;P). So I am always for althist stuff, as long as it is not notal sci-fi. :p
Generally, Paradox tries to stay way from depicting genocides and war crimes in their games and I think this would be too firmly in that camp to justify.
 

Saevynn

Corporal
13 Badges
Sep 18, 2020
48
159
  • Magicka
  • Magicka 2
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
If the Poland player choses to go with Habsburg, will Hungay gains cores on Austria and half of Yugoslavia? I'm interested in playing with my friend, both as Habsburg kings and I'm worried that he won't be able to recreate the Austro-Hungary, because of Czechoslovakia being mine (Polish).
 

RoarkTenjouin

Recruit
26 Badges
Aug 9, 2021
3
20
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Island Bound
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
If the Poland player choses to go with Habsburg, will Hungay gains cores on Austria and half of Yugoslavia? I'm interested in playing with my friend, both as Habsburg kings and I'm worried that he won't be able to recreate the Austro-Hungary, because of Czechoslovakia being mine (Polish).
He wouldn't need Czechoslovakia to core the rest of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, actually - the focus "Protect Czechoslovakia" will be bypassed if Czechoslovakia doesn't exist (or is the subject of another nation), and the decision to core the required parts of Yugoslavia and Romania is available after the focus "The Restoration of Austria-Hungary" - meaning that as long as he gets Austria to agree to be Annexed before Germany does the Anschluss, your friend could still get the rest of the cores, provided that you do all the heavy lifting against Romania and Yugoslavia.

He would get cores on Czechoslovakia when he completed The Restoration of Austria-Hungary, but you could just use the State Coring Tool mod if you don't wanna have the opinion debuff.