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HOI4 Dev Diary - The Baltic States 1/2 and Poland 3/2

Hello and welcome to another dev diary for the Barbarossa patch! Today I’m back with you to talk about not one, not two, but three new focus trees coming with the upcoming expansion: Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia!
Baltic States Map.png


The Baltic States were in a difficult position in the build-up to world war 2; only recently liberated from Russian and German rule and less than 20 years on from a bloody struggle against both imperialist powers. In the 30s, each of the states had established authoritarian rule in fear of German and Soviet invasions, and a player hoping to survive as a Baltic state must take some extreme measures to overcome these overwhelming odds...

The Baltic States, like the Chinese, will share some branches of their focus tree while other branches will be unique to each country. This week I am going to talk about the shared branches; the industrial branch and the communist political branch.
Baltic Total Focuses.png


Starting up with the industrial branch, each Baltic state was in something of a similar situation economically; relying heavily on foreign investment and equipment for their industry and armed forces. As such, each Baltic state may decide if they wish to put their faith in the democratic nations to supply their economy, or the Axis powers to fuel the war machine.
Baltic Industry Branch.png


The other common issue facing the Baltics was that they had previously been occupied by the Soviets and Germany, and their industry was sorely lacking. So, the Balts can attract workers to their capital and begin their rearmament and develop their research sector.
Attract Workers.png


Lastly, by modernising their industry, the Baltic states may become much more self-sufficient and end their reliance on foreign powers to fuel their war machine. They may expand raw resource production in their nation, which for Estonia and Latvia means the development of their on-map resources.

Lithuania however was uniquely very reliant on its agriculture, and thus starts the game with a variant of the “Agrarian Society” national spirit which can be slowly turned into a great benefit via their industrial tree.
Natural Resources.png


Next up, each of the Baltic States had recently endured bloody struggles against the USSR, so popular support for communism was vanishingly low. A Baltic state hoping to overthrow the government and establish an independent communist state must do so through war.
Estonia civil war.png


The Balts can either choose to rely on the Soviet intervention or attempt to reconcile relations with the Baltic lower classes and try to maintain their independence while establishing communism on their own.
Restore Workers Republic.png


Once the revolution is done and your nation is communist, the player will have the option to re-establish the Lithuania-Belarus SSR. In the case you sided with the Soviets, the USSR will grant you their half of Belarus with the rest coming either through war or the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
Lithuania Belarus Soviets.png


If you are independent however, Belarus must be acquired through adversarial means. The Baltic state must propagandise support for unification in Belarus similar to the Spanish Civil War garrison control system. When time runs out, Belarus will be released and fight a civil war; the victor will be annexed into either the victorious Baltic nation or the USSR.
Latvia Belarus decisions.png


The Baltic nation will also be able to try to convert their neighbours to communism through a propaganda war. No matter which path the Baltic player takes to establish socialism across the Baltics; they will be able to form the United Baltic SSR.
Baltic Socialist Republic.png


From there, they may use their newfound strength against Scandinavia and Poland and achieve communism across the entire Baltic Sea.
Baltic Warpath.png

That’s all for the Baltic States this week, next week I will be talking about the entirely unique political trees for each Baltic state.



Something worth bringing up here is we did make some changes to the Polish tree since we last talked about it. Firstly, I do just want to show off some of the new focus icons we got since I wrote those dev diaries and I feel like our artists have done a really great job. There are more, but I don't want to spoil all of them just yet! ;)
Poland focus icons.png


We originally planned to have Poland get an off-map reactor to essentially get them control of 1 nuke during play as an exile nation. This to reflect their role in the nuclear project, but we were already a bit on the fence on if this was too immersion breaking for the gameplay purpose, and it seemed many of you thought so too so we removed the off-map reactor and moved the focus to the industry branch.
Poland atomic bomb.png


Next, I managed to find time to implement Karl Albrecht von Habsburg as an option for monarchist Poland. He has his own branch which involves pressing the Habsburg claim on Czechoslovakia.
Karl Albrecht I.png

Habsburg Path.png


Claiming Czechoslovakia uses the same decision system as claiming Lithuania for the Commonwealth branch, and once the two nations are united, the ambition of West-Slavic unification is realised and the new nation may declare itself protector of the western Slavic peoples living in Germany.
West Slavia.png


Karl Albrecht I was known for the service he provided to the Polish army, and it’s unlikely that willingness to serve would vanish upon becoming King. So, as Soldier-King, he will gain a plethora of unique personality traits as well as becoming a field marshal.
Soldier King.png


With Hungary aligning itself with Poland’s enemies, Karl Albrecht can demand that Horthy step down in favour of Otto von Habsburg and force Hungary down their Habsburg path, diplomatically aligning them with Habsburg Poland.
Demand Habsburg Rule.png


Galicia-Lodomeria represented Habsburg rule over Poland and as such, Karl Albrecht may restore the Diet of Galicia which as well as giving the Royal Sejm national spirit, moves the nation’s capital to Krakow. While this centralises the capital between Poland and Czechoslovakia and surrounds the capital in defensible hills, the old Polish capital is also very close to the German border and may prove an easy target…
Diet of Galicia.png


I feel I should also clarify the mechanics behind electing a monarch. When the Fulfil the 5th of November Act focus is complete, candidates come forward and present themselves to be King. So while it would make little sense for the regency council to reach out and invite candidates like Pavel Bermondt-Avalov to be King, Pavel is certainly the type to try and present himself for King.
Cossack King Event.png


The final thing I'd like to mention is that during testing we noticed that it was quite a chore to scroll back and forth between the Polish tree with it being so wide, so I implemented a system where the Polish tree automatically compacts itself when you've chosen a political path.
Tree compacting.png


That’s all for this week, next week we will be covering the paths unique to each Baltic state and for now I’ll leave you with this teaser.
funny_hat_dot_png.png
 
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BOSSOVSKY

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I think Swiss and Austria are more likely to be in a Germany DLC, especially since their relations are less pronounced with Italy.

Or you can do DLC focused on Italy and Austria and Switzerland + make Yugoslav TAGs more attractive (e.g. Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia etc.). Then, the only thing left to do is to make a Scandinavian DLC (similar to the BoB DLC).
 

modddy00

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Is there any chance that more polish states will be added for more historically accurate borders and maybe even for giving most of polish ukrainian core territory to Ukraine but letting Poland keep the small part with Lwów in it?
 
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klopkr

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It would probably be possible, yeah, but we discussed options for this focus and moving it to the industry branch felt like the right call. It was an old focus from release that was attached to either the Cyclometer or the Bombe (don't remember which) and it didn't feel right to cut it. So it's just somewhere else. If you manage to survive against Germany long enough to research and build reactors, go ahead and nuke your way to Berlin ;)
Tbh i think it would be a fun niche mechanic to get to ask to pick the target for a nuking if your ally has them and has already used them.
So if you're in the allies, by the very late game if america starts launching nukes willynilly you can gently suggest berlin.

Maybe something like being able to press the nuke button and use your planes while someone in your faction has them and get to send a little notification to pick that target.

Also will Esti be into scandinavia?? I got big eyes for the next DD.
 

TwójstaryCrusander

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Możesz też zrobić DLC skupione na Włoszech, Austrii i Szwajcarii + uatrakcyjnić jugosłowiańskie TAG (np. Chorwacja, Słowenia, Bośnia itp.). Następnie pozostaje już tylko zrobić skandynawskie DLC (podobne do BoB DLC).
Most of the already present National focuses need to be enlarged (USA, Germany, Hungary, Czechoslovakia etc.)
 

BurningEGO

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Seriously.*

*at a guess, Poland-Lithuania gets a lot of cores.

Some countries gotta sacrifice long term power for short term power and more 'flexibility'. If you 'turtle it' instead of 'rushing the game' you might lose the oportunity to annex a few neutral countries or puppet them. I mean, beating the USSR and getting Poland-Lithuania will be gross, but it will take time to beat the USSR. Annexing the Czechs, Hungary and some of their southern neighbours might not wield as much manpower, but it will be much easier I bet.
 

wright1331

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I still dont get this, no one even plays these countries. Soviets and ITALY should be the only thing you guys focus on till you fix them... The damn game has been out for how many years and this is still lacking....
 
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I still dont get this, no one even plays these countries. Soviets and ITALY should be the only thing you guys focus on till you fix them... The damn game has been out for how many years and this is still lacking....
As stated before by the devs... revealing the Soviets will be happening at PDXcon. And Italy would a) be crammed into this DLC pack together with a massive rework of the Soviets and thus probably not fully utilized, and b) other then Italy the Baltics are affected directly by the Soviets, Poland and Operation Barbarossa. *Context: It matters*

EDIT: And as to who plays them. Without the FT noone probably would. But with the FT they are made interesting. They are given reason to be played! And thus i shall play as them.
 
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Kaiser Franz Ferdinand

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I still dont get this, no one even plays these countries. Soviets and ITALY should be the only thing you guys focus on till you fix them... The damn game has been out for how many years and this is still lacking....
As someone won ahs played as Lithuania. I disagree (not Lithuanian, btw). Also, the Soviets are going to be in this expansion, so stop whining.
 
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themrspartan

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When you do the USSR, please make the overwhelminging majority of political focuses options under communism... I really don’t want the main attraction to be a hyper unrealistic tsarist Russia in the 1930s/40s. I mean, really, come on, monarchism already has so much over-focus in this game.
Communist USA, Japan, Hungary, UK, Netherlands, India, Australia, and Trotskyist Mexico happened and so will monarchist Russia, no point in pretending otherwise at this point. As long as it doesn't subtract from their historical content I say go for it, not like it's particularly unlikely for communist countries to flip ideology or collapse outright.
 
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themrspartan

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I still dont get this, no one even plays these countries. Soviets and ITALY should be the only thing you guys focus on till you fix them... The damn game has been out for how many years and this is still lacking....
No one plays these countries YET. Hence the focus trees.
 
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him_15

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Not really interested in the Baltic countries focus trees to be honest, as long as Finland is also included I am more than happy though.
 
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Matihood1

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Is there any chance that more polish states will be added for more historically accurate borders and maybe even for giving most of polish ukrainian core territory to Ukraine but letting Poland keep the small part with Lwów in it?
Why just Lwów? If ever, the division should go alongside the Dmowski's line for Ukraine.
 
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Sir.Dr.X

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As I feared now, the communist branch in the Polish tree is being neglected. Especially in comparison with the extremely developed monarchist, sanacja or even nationalist branch, which is why I appeal to the creators once again to expand the communist branch of the Polish focus tree.

What's worth adding? It is definitely worth considering adding the possibility of selecting communist ministers and leaders. Currently, according to the developer's concept, we can choose Koszutska and Gomułka. And the way of independence and subjection to the USSR. This is, in my opinion, a very achistoric approach. In 1936, Koszutska was in Moscow, where in 1937 she was killed for her anti-Stalinist statements. It is doubtful that Stalin, who was already preparing the purges, would allow her to go to Poland and take over the leadership of the KPP, in which there were many comrades enjoying greater trust in the Kremlin. Hence, I would suggest leaving Koszutska as an alternative to the branch of socialist commonwealth. An alternative to her may be Gomułka or Edward Ochab. Ochab who in the years 1936-1937 was active in Poland as a district secretary in Częstochowa, Łódź (where he led the general strike of the textile workers) and Gdynia.

Ochab was arrested in April 1937 for strike activity, thanks to which he saved his life from the Stalinist purges in the KPP. Ochab, who ruled the People's Republic of Poland in 1956 as the first secretary of the Polish United Workers' Party.

He was clever enough not to attract Moscow's attention with ill-considered statements inconsistent with the party line, which led his Soviet comrades to perceive him as a "good Bolshevik". As it turned out, when Ochab took over the leadership, not only turned out to be a communist disloyal to Moscow, who focused on Polish independence. Ochab's first action as first secretary was to remove the Soviet "military advisers" from the cadres of the Polish People's Army. It is worth emphasizing that these "military advisers" until 1956 practically exercised control over the Polish people's army as well as the security services, being able to frequently change the orders of Polish officers. However, dismissing them meant that the PZPR gained independence in the field of uniformed services. It allowed for recovery. Moreover, assuming that the USSR might decide to intervene in Poland, he concluded an agreement with the People's Republic of China Mao. Thanks to this, in 1956 the Soviets decided not to use force and allowed Ochab's brother-in-law, the popular Gomułka, to take the position of first secretary. Ochab himself remained in the immediate vicinity of Gomułka until 1968. He also constantly supported the policy of Polish independence towards the USSR.

Gomułka, like his brother-in-law Ochab, was only to a certain extent loyal to Moscow. Unlike his brother-in-law, however, he did not hide his beliefs, which led to his recognition as a nationalist in 1948. Gomułka stayed in Poland in 1935-1936 and was active in the KPP in April 1936. He was arrested by the police, thanks to which he managed to avoid the Stalinist purges of the KPP. Gomułka, like his brother-in-law Ochab, was only to a certain extent loyal to Moscow. Unlike his brother-in-law, however, he did not hide his beliefs, which led to his recognition as a nationalist in 1948. Gomułka stayed in Poland in 1935-1936 and was active in the KPP in April 1936. He was arrested by the police, thanks to which he managed to avoid the Stalinist purges of the KPP. Gomułka left prison in 1939 and, together with Ochab, took part in the defense of Warsaw against the attacking Wermacht. After the fall of the capital, they both managed to get to the Polish territories occupied by the USSR. Gomułka was elected one of the PPR leaders in Moscow. He also became the first of the seven first secretaries of communist Poland. He was removed, arrested and expelled from the Polish United Workers' Party for nationalist apostasy in 1948. Bierut took his place. But, in 1956, Gomułka was released by his brother-in-law Ochab - who replaced the deceased Bierut. Gomułka returned to full power in 1956 and remained in office until 1970. Throughout the period of his rule, he focused on independence from the USSR and tried to make the economy of the Polish People's Republic independent of imports.

Another communist leader worth adding is Bolesław Bierut, who is often mentioned in the commentaries. Bierut was active in the Communist Party of Poland until 1933, acting as the head of the Red Aid, i.e. the komurka dealing with supporting revolutionary activities. He was arrested in 1933 by the Polish security services, and in 1936 he was temporarily removed from the KPP in absentia. So he became, in a sense, a victim of the Stalinist purges. This, however, did not change Bierut's approach to Soviet comrades, and paradoxically strengthened his loyalty to Moscow. Bierut was re-stabilized in 1940. He co-founded the Lublin government in 1944 and worked closely with Gomułka. At the same time, he was a man of Stalin's trust in the Polish Workers 'Party and then in the Polish United Workers' Party. Thanks to this, in 1948 he was promoted to the first secretary and also taking the position of the president of the Polish People's Republic. It is worth quoting the opinion popular among Polish historians that Bierut, as the first secretary, practically performed the ceremonial function. However, he became the object of a personal cult following the Stalinist pattern. Instead of Bierut, the party was ruled by Minc (dealing with the economy), Berman (controlling the security services) and Ochab (supervising the Central Committee of the Polish United Workers' Party and the Polish People's Army - the same who, after Bierut's death, took over the position of the first secretary and threw out Soviet advisers and officers from the Polish People's Republic. also led to the October thaw).

Bolesław Bierut would therefore be an ideal candidate for the leader of the Polish SSR.

It is also worth adding a focus or a decision to create an ORMO, i.e. a voluntary reserve of civil militia. Historically, ORMO was founded in 1944 as a paramilitary party militia. ORMO members were armed with firearms and wooden clubs. They were used to suppress protests, to pacify the resistance, and as a reserve force at the front. After the war, the ORMO in the PZPR decided that the ORMO was partially disarmed with firearms, but until the end of the PZPR, under the authority of the members of the ORMO, it was periodically mobilized and used to break up anti-communist riots. Whenever the Polish communist government suffered from a lack of manpower, the ORMO was called.
 
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Titi Plys

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not related to this, but, i would like some small changes to spanish civil war, like,make republican spain AI go to anti-fascist unity instead of "petition for french support", aswell as giving both sides some buffs and debuffs, because i find the way it is now bad for 1 reason:

-its unrealistic to have the anarchist revolution happening on 1936-1937, atleast with this, it will take until republican spain does it (or if ur a player and ur a dum-dum), and, the war doesnt last till it actually did in real life.

thanks in advance, have a good day.
 
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Glassius

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Wait Meka66, you have Polish beta-testers and they agree to set Danzig as demilitarized region? It was not, first shots in II World War were made there! Second question: if Baltics align with Britain, will they receive focuses for government in exile?

The Baltic state must propagandise support for unification in Belarus similar to the Spanish Civil War garrison control system. When time runs out, Belarus will be released and fight a civil war; the victor will be annexed into either the victorious Baltic nation or the USSR.
So you are giving a prometheism option for Baltic states, but not for Poland? Even though Poland was hosting Ukrainian government in exile before war?

I really hope Ruthenians will receive some love in Soviet Union update. They deserve it, but Paradox is not trying to earn their money.
I am counting on separate dev diaries for Ukraine and Belarus, before the USSR / Russian dev diaries.
So would Ukraine and Belarus become puppets?
And what is much more important for me, I think Belarusian civil war first of all should be started, because Belarusians wanted to establish their independent state on Belarusian national and non-communist basis. This idea was a main antagonist idea for Soviets in Belarus.
Ukraine will get focus tree?

Here is the full poland tree (sorry for rushjob photoshop :D)
4uPh8u6.png


Hey guys, you pointed out what is wrong with assiging different people to particular political and military options. Can you propose changes? Who should be assigned to which focus? Just like MrMcQue below? And like Sir.Dr.X clarified communists?
And please demote Wladyslaw Bortnowski from being a Field Marshall to a General.

You can quickly google some of these inventions / production facilities / developments for some quick info. They were a big part of Poland's pre-war development.
After all the 4-year plan stuff, things should culminate in the 15-year plan which was broken up into phases (you could limit this by year if necessary).
While I admire your history knowledge, I am against that idea. Proposed Polish focus tree is already very big and you want to make it even bigger and similar to your masterpiece mod. Personally I vote for a more simple presentation of Poland.

Since we know that Poland and Lithuania both share a big period of history toghether, wouldn't it make sense to actually give every Polish monarch a "mission" to complete to get all the Commonwealth land "back" as cores?
Not exactly. Lithuania from XVIII century was rather a Ruthenian state than Lithuanians as we now them today. Lithuanians conquered Ruthenian tribes, but were ruthenized afterwards.

Assign few light tanks as recon for Polish divisions, please.
Some Armored Recon or single Light Tank Battalions as part of those divisions to provide the number of tanks that should be present?
According to Niehorster, 1939 Polish Cavalry Brigade had 13 tanks and 8 armored cars, so that could be represented by Armored Recon in template, too few vehicles for a light tank battalion (of 60).
Motorized (Cavalry) Brigade had 16 light tanks and 26 tankettes, so interpreting tankettes as tanks could justify either Armored Recon or Light Tank Battalion in template, but not both.
True, it is difficult to describe their use in hoi4 mechanics. In fact, they operated as, for example, a dozen independent reconnaissance tank companies (13 TKS each). Maybe show these companies as support recon tank companies for other units?
Poland still had hundreds of light tanks, regardless of their organization
Please add 1 light tank battalion to the Polish cavalry and motorized brigade template to represent them.
To make it easier, on 20th February 1936 Polish army already had:
cars: 3701
1.382 motorcycles
610 tanks
264 armored cars
1.
2.

Sure, expecially people living in the Baltic region may have fun with the alt-history-trees, but seeing Poland and the Batlic States have larger trees than Germany or Italy is weird.
It is historically accurate. In 1935 Hermann Göring visited Józef Piłsudski and proposed military alliance against Soviet Union. Pierre Laval, French minister of foreing affairs, was researching a possibility to create a Small Entente including France, Poland and Czechoslovakia. He has met Józef Beck in Poland in 1935 for that. In 15th August 1939 Stalin proposed to UK and France a militiary alliance against Germany, but allies' diplomacy was too slow and he signed Ribbentrop-Molotov pact instead. Small countries had many options to choose from. In reality, their focus trees should be bigger than those of major powers!

Set aside the realism issue: Poland's 'colonial projects,' such as they were, were heavily tied to anti-Semitism. It feels like right now Paradox is either whitewashing that (and colonialism generally) or it's changed its policy on what can be included in the game, and either way I think it would be good to get a dev response.
You can't depict Poland sending 'settlers' to Madagascar and Palestine and pretend that it's just Noble Pioneers!
The reality was different, as I pointed somewhere before. TLDR:
1. It was France who proposed Madagascar to Poland, because they thought Polish would manage colony for French Jews.
2. Polish government was trying to use Jews colonization as excuse to convince Allies to acquire Palestine and Madagascar.
3. Poland sent a 3-people mission with 2 Jewish members who decided colonizing Madagascar is stupid. No one was relocated.
4. Jews were traveling to Palestine on their own, check the word Aliyah. Poland established a constant sea and air connection for them, but they were not forced to relocate.
5. Even though no antisemitic movement happened, Polish antisemites catched the idea. They were demanding relocation.

It was also already clarified by Adrianuse
As for the colonies of Poland, I regret the shallowing of the topic. I have already written about it here and here. The case is more complicated.

Most people here don't like the Poland colonies idea for a variety of reasons, the main one being it's extremely stupid and historically unrealistic, that being said your reasoning is stupid most of us don't want hysteria over muh antisemitism represented in game
On the contrary, I reckon quite a few players would have a problem with clearly anti-Semitic focuses as the Polish
I'm just worried about 'muh antisemitism,' apparently.
While Madagascar colony can be considered completely neglecting Jewish issue (government did not want to relocate Jews there, but Polish), there are focuses only about antisemitism: "Nationalist Education" and "Abolish Segregation Seating". I treat it as a compliment. Since Paradox is avoiding attrocities ingame, presenting examples of antisemitism in Poland is clearly showing how gentle and neglectable it was :) That is because I make assumptions of developer's good will. But if some people in Poland notice it, it will be scandalous. No antisemitism in Germany, only in Poland?

Why is it sensitive subject in Poland? There are consiracy theories, that foes of Poland are trying to falsify history and convince the world, Poland was responsible for Holocaust, Poland started II World War.

Below I put quotes I agree with and I don't want them to be lost.
A bit weird that independant Latvia uses the SSR flag from the 50s.
Any chance of Memel being known as Klaipeda when it's under Lithuanian control?
And an event renaming it to Memel when Germany annexes it?
AI should be able to do [Warsaw] urpsing in every historical game (excluding situation when german player change resistance level)
can you make the focuses to get Liberia and Madagascar moved to be shared? i think any ideology should be able to get some sweet colonialism, especially monarchists. doesnt make much sense for the colonial stuff to be under the communist tree. I think they could go near the bottom of the danzig focus tree, as you would need a strong port before having overseas territory

As always, links with propositions from my signature. They will get lost when I change it
 
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