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HOI4 Dev Diary - Naval Production, Repair and Damage

Hi everyone! Sorry about the late diary. We had to hunt down some gremlins in the machinery before stuff could be screenshotted. Today we are going to talk about quite a lot of big changes to naval production and repair as well as the new critical hits system for ships.

Ship Production
The current system of producing ships where you can assign 15 dockyards to the production of an individual vessel leads to results that are both quite ahistorical as well as not feeling like we want the naval play to feel. With big countries able to replace the loss of a big capital ship without much sweat it makes them less precious, and so we are changing this:
  • A Capital Ship can use up to 5 dockyards in its construction
  • Other ships can use 10 dockyards
  • Convoys can use the full 15
This essentially shifts capital ship construction speed to make each ship slower to make, but you can still build several in parallel. Constructing capital ships is complex and not exactly suitable for optimized assembly lines while we felt this still fit convoys very well with other ships in the middle. Speaking of capital ships, the definition is now a bit more flexible and will depend on the inclusion of certain design elements in your ships (such as a carrier flight deck or heavy guns), so if you construct your ships with those be aware that it will impact how streamlined their construction can be made.
Pasted_image_at_2018-09-12__3_58_PM.png


It is also possible to add custom names when you set up construction. The perfect time to remember to name your battleships awesome custom names rather than having to remember and do it once they are done. You can queue up several names if you so wish.


Ship Repair
Repair is also changing drastically. Before, repairing a vessel was free and just took time, now it’s using your naval industry to do so. You can decide how many dockyards to assign as a max and the level of the naval base will decide how much can be leveraged in each one. So if you have a level 5 naval base you can leverage 5 dockyards there and repair 5 ships at once.

repair.jpg


Bases can be prioritized for receiving dockyards if you have a lot of fleets suffering at once in various places and can even be disabled for repair so you don't accidentally send ships to repair where the enemy will sink them etc. You can even repair in friendly ports if you have docking rights, but are likely to have lower priority than their ships if there is a competition for attention.
Screenshot_1.jpg

If you look closely at the damaged Deutschland heavy cruiser you will see that there is a warning icon on top of it. This signifies that it has taken a critical hit to its propeller and is suffering a big penalty to speed...

Critical Hits
On top of the propeller damage shown off above there are a lot of different critical hits a ship can suffer in combat. The idea behind these is to add some cool storytelling to the fate of ships, and to introduce some lucky random elements. For example imagine there is a lucky hit on a fast and powerful German surface raiding vessel damaging its propeller or engine. Suddenly it is no longer able to escape the royal navy’s wrath as it has planned to do.

Different kind of hits have different effect, and also will cause different amount of direct damage. We are still finalizing the amount of types we have, but here is a non-complete list to wet your appetites:
  • Main Battery Turret Destroyed - reduced attack on main weapons and damage
  • Secondary Batteries Destroyed - reduced attack on secondary weapons
  • Broken Propeller - lower speed
  • Rudder jammed - reduced ability to disengage
  • Magazine hit - massive damage
  • Torpedo Tubes destroyed - reduced torpedo attack and damage
  • Heavy fires - reduced org and damage
  • Ballast tanks inoperable - reduced stealth for subs
  • Radar Inoperable - reduced detection
Suffering a critical hit is a good reason to repair your ships and they need to be fully repaired to remove the effects of the critical hit. There are several admiral traits designed to help you cope as well.

traits.jpg


“Safety First” Lowers the chance of the ships under this admirals command suffering critical hits in the first place while “Crisis Magician” unleashes your internal Scotty which will reduce any effects of critical hits through jury rigged repair, fancy maneuvering and probably a fair amount of god old duct tape.

Is this all? No, there will also be a brand new ship designer and the ability to refit. But that ship is not yet watertight, so it will sail in a future diary instead :)

See you all next week again for more Man the Guns updates!


Rejected Titles:
  • Duct tape and you - keeping the Kriegsmarine afloat in a crisis!
  • The rise of Boaty McBoatface
  • This dev diary was taking on water
  • There is nothing a scottish engineer with a degree in technobabble can’t fix
  • What are you sinking about?
 

Sventex

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I hope they remember to buff every nation with more factories. If France has to spend time now building fuel storage and more dockyards to handle repairs, they'll hardly have any military factories by the outbreak of war. It's already bad enough they only get 6 factories and a massive deficit in rifles at the start of 1936.
 

Qualitypunk1

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Someone meant specialized repair ships being added, which would be equal to maintenance companies in divisions. There were one or two Royal Navy Carriers dedicated to repairing aircraft.
Things I'm wondering about:
  • Are we going to build ships for lend lease?
  • Will we be able to stockpile ships like other unused equipment?
  • If a fleet loses its escorts will new ones be automatically assigned? Even if going into a stockpile
  • If I name a ship HMCS Uganda will it vote itself out of the war? Or HMS Nabob mutines for better pay?
Looking forward to learn more about Man the Guns.
 

Dalwin

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How can I, as Germany, build 1162 submarines in just 6 years if I have less dock capacity and longer production times?
They are NOT longer production times. Nor do you have less dock capacity except when some are conducting repairs and you have a fair degree of control over that.
 

Axe99

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This dev diary was taking on water

Dev diary looks pretty seaworthy to me :D. Cheers for the DD Podcat - this looks sensational - making naval countries have to spend the requisite effort to repair damaged ships both makes it much more historical (iirc Britain spent a similar amount of industrial effort repairing ships as it did building new ones) and strategic (bombing the dockyards of a nation whose navy one would prefer didn't get repaired quickly/built up for example).

The changes to ship construction also sound very good. It will make life a lot more palatable (and not easy, but more historically plausibly easier than it is now) for Japan, who will have a bit more of a window to run amok before those US CVs start sliding off the slips. For those who are concerned about this, it's important to keep in mind that naval warfare and strategy was not like that for land or air warfare* - and imo it's a good thing if naval strategy in-game isn't just land strategy with a ship icon on top of it (which it isn't in HoI4, and is coming a good deal less with MtG from every indication we've had so far :D).

And critical hits! Woot :D They look brilliant :cool:. Should add more depth and flavour to naval battles, and give ships more of a 'story'. On that note, it'd be kind of nice (although I'm not sure if worth the effort) if ships had a history of both times in repair and critical hits, as well as the ships they'd sunk or damaged, as part of a timeline.

Lastly, we get to name our ships on the slips :). This is also most welcome - I know not everyone will be excited for this, but I like being able to name my ships historically or, sometimes, quite ahistorically :eek:.

Soooo many possible pics for a dev diary about construction and repair. Here's one of Nevada entering dry dock in Feb 1942, ready for a lot of quality repair (and refit) work:

h83056.jpg


* Although there were obviously overlaps with air warfare, air warfare being an important part of naval warfare :).

Neat idea. I think it makes alot of sense to track partial damage and apply it in next strike even if convoys remain abstracted ( So that 100 hits by CAS for 10% damage result in 10 sunk convoys, not 0 ).

Something like this would be cool :). Wouldn't necessarily convert 100% of damage into sunk convoys, but something along those lines would be good.

I mean your absolutely right, but they have to shift balance a little in order to make the game more historical. Obviously if we could do ww2 all over again we wouldn't build any battleships, but in order for the game to vaguely follow historical Paterns battleships should start the game with significant power, but as you go down any naval docterine battleships should become worthless.

Worth keeping in mind the last battleship-on-battleship combat was in October 1944 (Battle of Surigoa Strait), and that even at the Battle of the Philippine Sea Marc Mitscher was keen to send the US Battle line against the Japanese fleet at night (Spruance wisely declined the suggestion). During WW2, if we only count ships lost at sea (and not in port), as many BBs/BCs were sunk by surface gunfire (six, counting Bismarck and Hiei as half each) as were by aircraft (also six, with Bismarck and Hiei counting as half again). It's easy to look at the US Fast Carrier Force at the end of WW2 and think that all BBs were obsolete, but the US Fast Carrier Force was hugely powerful full-stop - it didn't make all BBs obsolete as much as it made all other navies obsolete if the US was the opponent (submarines aside, but we're talking surface control rather than commerce raiding).

That's not to say that carriers didn't take over as the main naval strike weapon from around 1941 (which is still about half-way through the game), but BBs still had a role to play, and for more evenly balanced navies potentially quite an important one, as they could withstand far more punishment than a CV and stay operational.

Pretty sure cruisers was considered as obsolete as battleships was after ww2 with Maybe few exceptions. Missile cruiser is Another thing however.

The last big gun cruiser wasn't retired until this millenium (I think - at the very least close to), and the Soviet cruisers post-war were a concern for both the USN and the RN - the last US big-gun cruiser wasn't decommissioned until 1975 (although the missile cruisers took over in the 1960s) - but it was a while after WW2 before missiles took over as the main ship-to-ship strike weapon.

If I name a ship HMCS Uganda will it vote itself out of the war?

lololololol - love it :D. Cheers for the good chuckle :cool:.

How can I, as Germany, build 1162 submarines in just 6 years if I have less dock capacity and longer production times?

It's been a while since I checked, but when I tested historical builds for Germany, it was a doddle (and I'm a terrible min-maxxer). Given submarines can still have ten NIC put on them, I imagine they'll be able to be built a good deal quicker than historically, so you hopefully shouldn't have too much trouble and still won't have to plan ahead as much as Raeder and Doenitz did :).
 
Last edited:

Secret Master

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How can I, as Germany, build 1162 submarines in just 6 years if I have less dock capacity and longer production times?

Spawn more overlords? Harvest more vespene gas?

It's not like build costs for ships changed. o_O
 

controlvoice

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Are there going to be changes to the way we can remove damaged ships from a fleet for repairs? It is currently quite cumbersome to do if you have a large fleet. I wish it were as easy remove damaged ships as it is to remove low strength divisions from armies.
 

Dalwin

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Are there going to be changes to the way we can remove damaged ships from a fleet for repairs? It is currently quite cumbersome to do if you have a large fleet. I wish it were as easy remove damaged ships as it is to remove low strength divisions from armies.
So you want something easier than having them remove themselves automatically, make their own way back to their home port, and then rejoin the fleet automatically after being repaired? What did you have in mind?
 

Stug_Life

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So you want something easier than having them remove themselves automatically, make their own way back to their home port, and then rejoin the fleet automatically after being repaired? What did you have in mind?
Do I sense sarcasm lol ;) I just hope they make the Tripiz as beastly as what it was and they make u-boats good at combat
 

controlvoice

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So you want something easier than having them remove themselves automatically, make their own way back to their home port, and then rejoin the fleet automatically after being repaired? What did you have in mind?

This "feature" destroyed my entire fleet. I tried using this once and it stripped my fleet of damaged vessels and sent them back to port for repair. This weakened the existing fleet so much that it lost the next engagement and all my remaining ships were sent to the bottom. The only ships I had left were the damaged ships back in port.

A human player could have taken the most damaged vessels and sent them back to port manually and still preserved the main strength of the active fleet. I would not have lost the battle if I just stripped away the 1 battleship and 7-9 screens that truly needed repair. By relying on this "helpful" feature the AI removed the most vital elements in my fleet because they had sustained a certain level of damage.

To move a division from an army I click on the division and then right click on another army. The simplest thing in the world.

To move a ship from one fleet to another I can create a new fleet. Then it opens a long list of ships within the current fleet. I have to remember the name and the class of damage ship because when you create a new fleet it does not show the damage level of the ships. I have to squint at the small text. I have to scroll through dozens of ships, pick out the one that I need, and click on it to create a new fleet. The fleet screen doesn't even organize ships by class. It will scatter level II destroyers throughout the list instead of grouping them together for better organization.

Why is this so complicated? Why can't I move ships around as easily as I can move divisions?
 

grandad1982

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Love these changes or at least the intent behind them.

However the number of dockyards per ship seems totally off to me and I can see it leading to some really strange results. For example a small nation with only 5 yards can build a BB as fast as America but can't build much smaller DD at max speed? That's completely ludicrous. If you want to make ships take longer and be more precious just increase the base cost. The way you've done it is just weird.

@podcat could you explain more about why you chose the system you did target than just tweaking costs? It just seems to bring more balance and immersion problems than it solves to me.
 

Dalwin

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Love these changes or at least the intent behind them.

However the number of dockyards per ship seems totally off to me and I can see it leading to some really strange results. For example a small nation with only 5 yards can build a BB as fast as America but can't build much smaller DD at max speed? That's completely ludicrous. If you want to make ships take longer and be more precious just increase the base cost. The way you've done it is just weird.

@podcat could you explain more about why you chose the system you did target than just tweaking costs? It just seems to bring more balance and immersion problems than it solves to me.
Yes they can build a single BB as quickly as a larger nation, if they do nothing else. I don't see a problem with that. They also won't be able to build 5 of them at once in parallel.
 

kaguravitro

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oh men, like a little rule the waves, i will love it
 

Dalwin

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This "feature" destroyed my entire fleet. I tried using this once and it stripped my fleet of damaged vessels and sent them back to port for repair. This weakened the existing fleet so much that it lost the next engagement and all my remaining ships were sent to the bottom. The only ships I had left were the damaged ships back in port.

A human player could have taken the most damaged vessels and sent them back to port manually and still preserved the main strength of the active fleet. I would not have lost the battle if I just stripped away the 1 battleship and 7-9 screens that truly needed repair. By relying on this "helpful" feature the AI removed the most vital elements in my fleet because they had sustained a certain level of damage.

To move a division from an army I click on the division and then right click on another army. The simplest thing in the world.

To move a ship from one fleet to another I can create a new fleet. Then it opens a long list of ships within the current fleet. I have to remember the name and the class of damage ship because when you create a new fleet it does not show the damage level of the ships. I have to squint at the small text. I have to scroll through dozens of ships, pick out the one that I need, and click on it to create a new fleet. The fleet screen doesn't even organize ships by class. It will scatter level II destroyers throughout the list instead of grouping them together for better organization.

Why is this so complicated? Why can't I move ships around as easily as I can move divisions?
You asked for something easier. There is nothing easier than the current option. It is something altogether different to have something that exercises good judgment. If the game did both, what would be the player's function? It would be more like watching a movie than commanding a navy.
 

TDogFresh

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Ship Production
The current system of producing ships where you can assign 15 dockyards to the production of an individual vessel leads to results that are both quite ahistorical as well as not feeling like we want the naval play to feel. With big countries able to replace the loss of a big capital ship without much sweat it makes them less precious, and so we are changing this:
  • A Capital Ship can use up to 5 dockyards in its construction
  • Other ships can use 10 dockyards
  • Convoys can use the full 15
This essentially shifts capital ship construction speed to make each ship slower to make, but you can still build several in parallel. Constructing capital ships is complex and not exactly suitable for optimized assembly lines while we felt this still fit convoys very well with other ships in the middle. Speaking of capital ships, the definition is now a bit more flexible and will depend on the inclusion of certain design elements in your ships (such as a carrier flight deck or heavy guns), so if you construct your ships with those be aware that it will impact how streamlined their construction can be made.
[/spoiler]

Yikes, probably the worst thing by far out of this update. I love everything else. I understand where you guys are coming from with role playing the dock yards but I thought eliminating the 15 factory/dock cap was the end of these type of ideas. I know it wont be changed but wow do I hate the idea that I have to add 10 lines of battleships when we just added the function to stop making multiple strings of the same weapon/tank/ship.