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HOI4 Dev Diary - Naval Production, Repair and Damage

Hi everyone! Sorry about the late diary. We had to hunt down some gremlins in the machinery before stuff could be screenshotted. Today we are going to talk about quite a lot of big changes to naval production and repair as well as the new critical hits system for ships.

Ship Production
The current system of producing ships where you can assign 15 dockyards to the production of an individual vessel leads to results that are both quite ahistorical as well as not feeling like we want the naval play to feel. With big countries able to replace the loss of a big capital ship without much sweat it makes them less precious, and so we are changing this:
  • A Capital Ship can use up to 5 dockyards in its construction
  • Other ships can use 10 dockyards
  • Convoys can use the full 15
This essentially shifts capital ship construction speed to make each ship slower to make, but you can still build several in parallel. Constructing capital ships is complex and not exactly suitable for optimized assembly lines while we felt this still fit convoys very well with other ships in the middle. Speaking of capital ships, the definition is now a bit more flexible and will depend on the inclusion of certain design elements in your ships (such as a carrier flight deck or heavy guns), so if you construct your ships with those be aware that it will impact how streamlined their construction can be made.
Pasted_image_at_2018-09-12__3_58_PM.png


It is also possible to add custom names when you set up construction. The perfect time to remember to name your battleships awesome custom names rather than having to remember and do it once they are done. You can queue up several names if you so wish.


Ship Repair
Repair is also changing drastically. Before, repairing a vessel was free and just took time, now it’s using your naval industry to do so. You can decide how many dockyards to assign as a max and the level of the naval base will decide how much can be leveraged in each one. So if you have a level 5 naval base you can leverage 5 dockyards there and repair 5 ships at once.

repair.jpg


Bases can be prioritized for receiving dockyards if you have a lot of fleets suffering at once in various places and can even be disabled for repair so you don't accidentally send ships to repair where the enemy will sink them etc. You can even repair in friendly ports if you have docking rights, but are likely to have lower priority than their ships if there is a competition for attention.
Screenshot_1.jpg

If you look closely at the damaged Deutschland heavy cruiser you will see that there is a warning icon on top of it. This signifies that it has taken a critical hit to its propeller and is suffering a big penalty to speed...

Critical Hits
On top of the propeller damage shown off above there are a lot of different critical hits a ship can suffer in combat. The idea behind these is to add some cool storytelling to the fate of ships, and to introduce some lucky random elements. For example imagine there is a lucky hit on a fast and powerful German surface raiding vessel damaging its propeller or engine. Suddenly it is no longer able to escape the royal navy’s wrath as it has planned to do.

Different kind of hits have different effect, and also will cause different amount of direct damage. We are still finalizing the amount of types we have, but here is a non-complete list to wet your appetites:
  • Main Battery Turret Destroyed - reduced attack on main weapons and damage
  • Secondary Batteries Destroyed - reduced attack on secondary weapons
  • Broken Propeller - lower speed
  • Rudder jammed - reduced ability to disengage
  • Magazine hit - massive damage
  • Torpedo Tubes destroyed - reduced torpedo attack and damage
  • Heavy fires - reduced org and damage
  • Ballast tanks inoperable - reduced stealth for subs
  • Radar Inoperable - reduced detection
Suffering a critical hit is a good reason to repair your ships and they need to be fully repaired to remove the effects of the critical hit. There are several admiral traits designed to help you cope as well.

traits.jpg


“Safety First” Lowers the chance of the ships under this admirals command suffering critical hits in the first place while “Crisis Magician” unleashes your internal Scotty which will reduce any effects of critical hits through jury rigged repair, fancy maneuvering and probably a fair amount of god old duct tape.

Is this all? No, there will also be a brand new ship designer and the ability to refit. But that ship is not yet watertight, so it will sail in a future diary instead :)

See you all next week again for more Man the Guns updates!


Rejected Titles:
  • Duct tape and you - keeping the Kriegsmarine afloat in a crisis!
  • The rise of Boaty McBoatface
  • This dev diary was taking on water
  • There is nothing a scottish engineer with a degree in technobabble can’t fix
  • What are you sinking about?
 

GSP Jr

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Still waiting for a solution to end utterly annoying doomstacks...
With fuel, repair, and construction reworking you may very well be seeing that.
 

Louella

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Looks very interesting. Having to plan further ahead should make for some interesting games.

While build speed is unchanged, lead time is increased. It might be worth adjusting when different ship models become available? Ie. shifting '40 to '38 and '44 to '42 or something? Otherwise a 1944 capital ship researched on time will only be available in 1947.

At the same time though, it makes the early ships more relevant, instead of existing Battleship 2s and Carrier 2s being utterly obsolete by the time the war even starts. Like, iirc, the UK can get 2 bonuses to Carrier research, which, depending on strength sliders and such, can mean that you can build only 1944 model carriers, never having built any Carrier 2s or 3s, and only having the handful of Carrier 1s that the UK starts with.
 

Denkt

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It is quite easy to Tech rush to the best ships and given how much better they are compared to old ship it may make even more sense to do so if build time is so much longer. You can also refit ships which may make it possible to employ late Tech earlier.
 

balmung60

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Do heavy cruiser guns (8"/203mm/20cm) still cause ships to count as capital ships, or will you need to exceed that size before it faces the the dock allocation penalty?
 

Jamey

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They already have the x5 design, so maybe stacking up to 25 dockyards dedicated to capital ships would fit on the same row. Similar for x10 I guess for escorts? Bonus points for showing a staggered status bar?
I don't think it is that simple, as the UI would need to support dealing with the progress on the individual ships being produced so that you can swap off the production from some of the line.

Essentially, the current design works well for land production, but it does not work well for the new Naval Production. I hope that they can take the time to implement a Production UI which works well for Naval rather than using what they have.
 

Denkt

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Do heavy cruiser guns (8"/203mm/20cm) still cause ships to count as capital ships, or will you need to exceed that size before it faces the the dock allocation penalty?
Even Light Cruisers if not destroyers should probably be limited to 5 dockyards as they are quite big, however I suspect they want to limit the capital ship spam.
 

aokiryu

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Nice, I can't wait to play this expansion, however, I hope AI doesn't lose all its ships in the first month and I hope it can make one good naval invasion instead of sending its troops to being sunk without escorts and if they manage to land its troops they should not be sent back to the sea due to AI troops trip in the enemy sea zone.

If the player loses the sea battle in the Pacific and he is waiting to defeat the enemy in its homeland I hope that the AI can make one good naval invasion of USA or of Japanese mainlands depending on which country you are playing.

I wish that the AI doesn't lose all its ships for the enemy land-based torpedo bomber because it likes to sail in water controlled by enemy planes, I hope AI is able to give air support to her ships.

If those things don't get fixed the new expansion will be a fail.
 

praftd

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I do not like these changes.
It's already hard enough to catch up to the larger powers in terms of navy and now you're making production even slower and adding on top that dockyards have to be diverted to repair.
Being able to devote less dockyards to larger ships just seems absurd. Larger ships take more resources, therefore you should be able to allocate more dockyards to them, not less.
Using dockyards instead of naval bases for repair is just an unneeded change and one that will make naval base upgrades obsolete.
I do like the changes regarding critical hits, however.

It is actually making it better for minors in many ways.
 

praftd

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Nice, I can't wait to play this expansion, however, I hope AI doesn't lose all its ships in the first month and I hope it can make one good naval invasion instead of sending its troops to being sunk without escorts and if they manage to land its troops they should not be sent back to the sea due to AI troops trip in the enemy sea zone.

If the player loses the sea battle in the Pacific and he is waiting to defeat the enemy in its homeland I hope that the AI can make one good naval invasion of USA or of Japanese mainlands depending on which country you are playing.

I wish that the AI doesn't lose all its ships for the enemy land-based torpedo bomber because it likes to sail in water controlled by enemy planes, I hope AI is able to give air support to her ships.

If those things don't get fixed the new expansion will be a fail.

It seems likely that these changes will be accompanied by combat changes to prevent losing hundreds of ships in one battle.

Their goal seems to be making ships last longer and be more meaningful. They have greater survivability but far more devistating if you lose them.

If we continue to see naval battles where you lose 50 ships in a couple days then every change being made with have completely ruined naval warfare.
 

Denkt

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Ships can be destroyed in a few hits in reality, the problem is to hit them as the technology they did have at the time is pretty poor compared to what we have now.
 

praftd

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Depend, you can say it is worse because each lost ship or even repair will cost more time and resources than Before which favor the rich countries. Fuel may be a big problem for minors as well.

Big nations will always be able to build things faster, but these changes mean that individual capital ships can be produced at the same speed.

A minor is much more able to compete with 5 dockyards than 15. And in terms of net ship production, these changes do not affect that.

As another poster stated. With 15 dockyards you could produce 1 ship every year. Now you will produce 3 every 3 years. Nothing has changed on that front. They are just shifting towards parallelism.
 

Denkt

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3 capital ships is much better than 1 capital ship because of how combat currently works. If one capital ship have a combat value of 1 3 capital ships Maybe should be given a combat value of 5 or so.

Repair cost is a big issue for minors, if you have 5 dockayards, a damaged ship will take up 1/5 of your shipbuilding industry.

Minors also lack the ability to build and support 4 or so screens per capital ships which may become a huge disadvantage.

If they add more Techs that may also put a disadvantage for minor nations with less research slots.
 

BigMike420

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Honestly I have some concerns. For a small nation that starts with no navy, building up one takes forever currently, so to slow it down might make the game take longer. For example as Germany, after defeating France and the UK (which I wouldn’t need a navy for), to take in the USA I need a navy, which requires me to build up. It’s a boring part of the game and to make it take longer could be counter intuitive
 

krios41

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As another poster stated. With 15 dockyards you could produce 1 ship every year. Now you will produce 3 every 3 years.
and that minor with 5 dockyards will produce 1 every 3 years.
It's true that ultimatly you'd get theorethicaly the same amount of ships
but i vastly prefer 1 ship every year over 3 ships every 3 years. Can you imagine how painfull doing the "my ships don't lie" achievemnt would be with this?
that's 3 ships per 3 years (assuming you only have 15 dockyards, you're colombia, you're not gonna have many)
that's 21 years to make those! (please bear with me, math is hard and i realy hope i made big mistake)
and if you got 30 somehow that's stil 12 years

do you want to wait THAT long? It's jsut an example (with 1 ship/year you're jsut waiting 20 years, or 10 if you had 30 dockyards)
 

NilsFabian

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Hmmm sounds really great. Now it might make sense to play with an eye on the navy.

Now that repair is specific to a naval base well we have the ability of targeting a specific base in an Air Attack?

Thats a great question. Would be nice to attack the main repair port and sink the ships in the dockyards.

Speaking of sinking. Whats going to happen when we conquer a naval base with the army, are those ships scuttled or might it be possible to get some prize ships that way.
 

Denkt

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Building a capital ship in 3 years is actually still quite fast. in reality it could take more like 5-6 years and that ship would also need to be updated quite regularly to keep it relevant and still it can be destroyed by a few hits.

Ship duels during the time was very risky because of the damage Shells can do, armor do help but it wont make a ship completely immune to similar ship guns.
 

Ifernat

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There's some good ideas here but is there anything to address the a historical meta where the most efficient path tends to be rushing to a late tech cruiser hull and building loads of them? Armor vs penetration damage penalties tend to become meaningless when things are near parity in industrial cost.

Battleships may be at the end of the line, but their raw destructive power shouldn't be underestimated. If they're getting more restrictive to build and deploy then I hope their performance in cases where conditions favor them suitably justifies their cost.

Also, is there anything being added given the shift to emphasize damage rather than destruction for fleets cut off from supply. I'm sure everyone has seen things like fleets getting trapped in the Baltic or Mediterranean and not suffering much in the way of I'll effects despite being cut off from a major port
 

Denkt

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Also, is there anything being added given the shift to emphasize damage rather than destruction for fleets cut off from supply. I'm sure everyone has seen things like fleets getting trapped in the Baltic or Mediterranean and not suffering much in the way of I'll effects despite being cut off from a major port
Maybe more damage at the starts to end into more complete kills as technology advance which make fire Control more accurate and gunfire more deadly?

There's some good ideas here but is there anything to address the a historical meta where the most efficient path tends to be rushing to a late tech cruiser hull and building loads of them? Armor vs penetration damage penalties tend to become meaningless when things are near parity in industrial cost.

Pretty sure cruisers was considered as obsolete as battleships was after ww2 with Maybe few exceptions. Missile cruiser is Another thing however.