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HOI4 Dev Diary - Naval Production, Repair and Damage

Hi everyone! Sorry about the late diary. We had to hunt down some gremlins in the machinery before stuff could be screenshotted. Today we are going to talk about quite a lot of big changes to naval production and repair as well as the new critical hits system for ships.

Ship Production
The current system of producing ships where you can assign 15 dockyards to the production of an individual vessel leads to results that are both quite ahistorical as well as not feeling like we want the naval play to feel. With big countries able to replace the loss of a big capital ship without much sweat it makes them less precious, and so we are changing this:
  • A Capital Ship can use up to 5 dockyards in its construction
  • Other ships can use 10 dockyards
  • Convoys can use the full 15
This essentially shifts capital ship construction speed to make each ship slower to make, but you can still build several in parallel. Constructing capital ships is complex and not exactly suitable for optimized assembly lines while we felt this still fit convoys very well with other ships in the middle. Speaking of capital ships, the definition is now a bit more flexible and will depend on the inclusion of certain design elements in your ships (such as a carrier flight deck or heavy guns), so if you construct your ships with those be aware that it will impact how streamlined their construction can be made.
Pasted_image_at_2018-09-12__3_58_PM.png


It is also possible to add custom names when you set up construction. The perfect time to remember to name your battleships awesome custom names rather than having to remember and do it once they are done. You can queue up several names if you so wish.


Ship Repair
Repair is also changing drastically. Before, repairing a vessel was free and just took time, now it’s using your naval industry to do so. You can decide how many dockyards to assign as a max and the level of the naval base will decide how much can be leveraged in each one. So if you have a level 5 naval base you can leverage 5 dockyards there and repair 5 ships at once.

repair.jpg


Bases can be prioritized for receiving dockyards if you have a lot of fleets suffering at once in various places and can even be disabled for repair so you don't accidentally send ships to repair where the enemy will sink them etc. You can even repair in friendly ports if you have docking rights, but are likely to have lower priority than their ships if there is a competition for attention.
Screenshot_1.jpg

If you look closely at the damaged Deutschland heavy cruiser you will see that there is a warning icon on top of it. This signifies that it has taken a critical hit to its propeller and is suffering a big penalty to speed...

Critical Hits
On top of the propeller damage shown off above there are a lot of different critical hits a ship can suffer in combat. The idea behind these is to add some cool storytelling to the fate of ships, and to introduce some lucky random elements. For example imagine there is a lucky hit on a fast and powerful German surface raiding vessel damaging its propeller or engine. Suddenly it is no longer able to escape the royal navy’s wrath as it has planned to do.

Different kind of hits have different effect, and also will cause different amount of direct damage. We are still finalizing the amount of types we have, but here is a non-complete list to wet your appetites:
  • Main Battery Turret Destroyed - reduced attack on main weapons and damage
  • Secondary Batteries Destroyed - reduced attack on secondary weapons
  • Broken Propeller - lower speed
  • Rudder jammed - reduced ability to disengage
  • Magazine hit - massive damage
  • Torpedo Tubes destroyed - reduced torpedo attack and damage
  • Heavy fires - reduced org and damage
  • Ballast tanks inoperable - reduced stealth for subs
  • Radar Inoperable - reduced detection
Suffering a critical hit is a good reason to repair your ships and they need to be fully repaired to remove the effects of the critical hit. There are several admiral traits designed to help you cope as well.

traits.jpg


“Safety First” Lowers the chance of the ships under this admirals command suffering critical hits in the first place while “Crisis Magician” unleashes your internal Scotty which will reduce any effects of critical hits through jury rigged repair, fancy maneuvering and probably a fair amount of god old duct tape.

Is this all? No, there will also be a brand new ship designer and the ability to refit. But that ship is not yet watertight, so it will sail in a future diary instead :)

See you all next week again for more Man the Guns updates!


Rejected Titles:
  • Duct tape and you - keeping the Kriegsmarine afloat in a crisis!
  • The rise of Boaty McBoatface
  • This dev diary was taking on water
  • There is nothing a scottish engineer with a degree in technobabble can’t fix
  • What are you sinking about?
 

PCkarma112

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yup. the reason they are army symbols is that they haven't all been set up yet everywhere. we got different ones for navies
YESSSS! Definitely hyped about this option, but as well for the upcoming changes! Naval warfare is what I have been wanting to be overhauled in this awesome game for a while.. I enjoy it as is now, but with all the new features coming it will be even more of a focus for me (which I LOVE!) as we can finally do some real work in between battles.. Thank you for the hard work Devs, PLZ keep it coming! ;-)
 

afb

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Looks very interesting. Having to plan further ahead should make for some interesting games.



At the same time though, it makes the early ships more relevant, instead of existing Battleship 2s and Carrier 2s being utterly obsolete by the time the war even starts. Like, iirc, the UK can get 2 bonuses to Carrier research, which, depending on strength sliders and such, can mean that you can build only 1944 model carriers, never having built any Carrier 2s or 3s, and only having the handful of Carrier 1s that the UK starts with.


Good point! But of course I'm not really fond of those research bonuses in the first place. Some countries, if you time them right, can get late war equipment ridiculously early. If only it was the countries that were actually leaders in that tech, it wouldn't be so bad, but it isn't balanced like that and - to be fair to the Devs - the mechanic is really difficult to balance, considering how crafty players are.
 

SwissKiran

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I feel like I have to ask: Will you implement some sort of namelist system for ships as you did for divisions? I'm thinking about the option to have specific naming schemes for Carriers, Battleships, Destroyers, Submarines, Mine Sweepers etc.
 

Ramage

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I know I’m jumping ahead here, but is there a difference between a standard fight deck and an armored one?

I think it was after Okinawa that a US admiral noted that “Japanese Kamikaze strike on a US Fast Carrier results in 6 months in Pearl to refit. The same strike on British carrier and it’s ‘Sweepers, man your brooms!’” (Kamikaze strike on the armored flight deck of a British carrier results in a 3 inch dent in the flight deck)
 

DicRoNero

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Just one question: what's the reason to ever build NIC and navy at all now?

Navy has been totally secondary to both army and airpower, and instead of telling us how we could actually put fleets to better usage you start off by introducing yet more penalties.
The info gets unfold in a pretty weird way.
 
Last edited:

podcat

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So here is a question of someone who likes it historical. With this new setup, when can Germany finish its first Bismarck? With the 15 dockyards i think its at the early 1940, which is quite historical. Does that mean, with only 5 dockyards, the first Bismarck will arrive at around 1942? Thats a year after it has been sunk historical. I dont think i like that...

I dunno yet, we havent changed the cost of ships because we are working on the ship designer. Different designs are going to have very different costs.

Will these changes be in the expansion or free updates.
In the free patch


Love these changes or at least the intent behind them.

However the number of dockyards per ship seems totally off to me and I can see it leading to some really strange results. For example a small nation with only 5 yards can build a BB as fast as America but can't build much smaller DD at max speed? That's completely ludicrous. If you want to make ships take longer and be more precious just increase the base cost. The way you've done it is just weird.

@podcat could you explain more about why you chose the system you did target than just tweaking costs? It just seems to bring more balance and immersion problems than it solves to me.
If our goal is to increase the time it takes to build a single capital ship as USA past 1940 the costs would make building capital ships suck for all smaller countries. This way US can build more ships still, but replacing losses takes longer as well as making tech upgrades and designs more interesting because of the longer time... all this while allowing smaller nations to get one ship at the same time if they want one. So it should be the better way both for small and big.

but wow do I hate the idea that I have to add 10 lines of battleships when we just added the function to stop making multiple strings of the same weapon/tank/ship.
if the meta becomes to run 10 lines all at once on battleships we have probably failed with balance of everything else as well as industry. The current battleship > everything else spam is not fun, nor is it strategic and interesting.

The info gets unfold in a pretty weird way.
Yeah I know, sorry about that. That kinda comes with how developing expansions is. The things that tie everything together (ship design, combat and fleet/task force management) are also the parts that take the longest, need the most iteration etc. If we just had one 50 page diary the day before release we could explain it in the best way, but as it is that is difficult. As a a reader try to use youy imagination and consider that the diary isnt the expansion, there is as much stuff left to talk about as we have already seen etc.

This is also a little bit of a problem in how diaries have grown. Often the content is stuff finished this week, not a well planned campaign. I kinda would like to go back to "this is what we are working on this week" and not have people freak out when they cant be given the whole picture at once.

Building a capital ship in 3 years is actually still quite fast. in reality it could take more like 5-6 years and that ship would also need to be updated quite regularly to keep it relevant and still it can be destroyed by a few hits.

Ship duels during the time was very risky because of the damage Shells can do, armor do help but it wont make a ship completely immune to similar ship guns.

we'll always opt for faster than reality just because its more fun. Also you dont know yet how costs are changing with new designs etc yet.

I should have slapped a "NUMBERS NOT FINAL" under all pictures, but not sure it would have helped ;)
 

halvorni

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I really don't understand the rationale behind using 5 dockyards for capital ships and 10 for others. Why not just 5 for all ships? More realistic.

To be honest, since this was before modular ship building, you should only be allowed to use 1 yard for the keel and main superstructure, but a few more for guns, radars and other stuff that can be put into the ship. Then again, 5 yards might be a good simulation of this.
 

DicRoNero

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Yeah I know, sorry about that. That kinda comes with how developing expansions is. The things that tie everything together (ship design, combat and fleet/task force management) are also the parts that take the longest, need the most iteration etc. If we just had one 50 page diary the day before release we could explain it in the best way, but as it is that is difficult. As a a reader try to use youy imagination and consider that the diary isnt the expansion, there is as much stuff left to talk about as we have already seen etc.
Thank you for your swift reply!

Being a game developer myself, I'm fully aware that explaining and documenting stuff is at times more time consuming than actually creating it. Looking forward reading your other diaries, then.
 

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@podcat What happens to a battlegroup that's trapped somewhere. Let's say the Royal Navy gets trapped in the Mediterranean and Italy captures all the ports. All of them. Will the Task Force of the Royal Navy be dead in the water when supply runs out (assuming it doesn't get wrecked by the Regia Marina)? Is there a critical for that? Is there a difference between supply (aka gun-food and people-food) and fuel (with their respective criticals?)
 

keatsv

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A welcome change. Some questions:

Is getting a critical hit on the propeller the only way for damage to decrease a ship's speed? Or will mobility decrease in general with damage?
Can damage get worse as a crippled ship tries to make it's way back home, or do ships only sink in combat?
 

Alex_brunius

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I really don't understand the rationale behind using 5 dockyards for capital ships and 10 for others. Why not just 5 for all ships? More realistic.

Alot of people have complained that the production queue will get longer, and if it was 5 for all ships it would be alot worse. Seems like a decent compromise to me to keep convoys at 15 and Light ships at 10.

if the meta becomes to run 10 lines all at once on battleships we have probably failed with balance of everything else as well as industry. The current battleship > everything else spam is not fun, nor is it strategic and interesting.

I think the change to have repairs cost dockyards on it's own is enough to destroy the "battleships > everything else" meta since the reason the battleships are better is because they survive and can be repaired for free.

In my testing of 1.5 and 1.4 naval combat Mixed fleets or even pure Destroyer fleets often can inflict more damage vs pure Battleships, they just lose because they can't sink the BB while the BB can pick them off a few each battle just to return 2-3 weeks later with 100% strength having been magically repaired at a lvl 10 port.
 

James Hale

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So, an obvious question would be... is the AI aware of these changes/limitations and fully capable of responding to them?
 

James Hale

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Are all majors getting a list of vessel names in the patch as well, like they got division names?
The lists of names already exist, so it should be quite simple to reformat them.
 

TheWackyWombat

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I like the idea of limiting the number of shipyards that can work on larger vessels (as long as it's balanced properly), it's not like they're being pumped out of 100s of different factories like tanks are.

It's too bad military and ship production are tied to the same system, because I'd love to see this idea taken one step further and have ship production assigned to specific provinces/territories. I find it easier to picture one sprawling naval yard producing a huge battleship than a number of un-connected facilities.

It would also provide a more interesting risk/reward balance because concentrating your capital ship yards in a few spots would increase production, but it would also make it easier for the enemy to identify and target these facilities.
 

podcat

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Is getting a critical hit on the propeller the only way for damage to decrease a ship's speed? Or will mobility decrease in general with damage?
Can damage get worse as a crippled ship tries to make it's way back home, or do ships only sink in combat?

There are (at least on the drawing board) several different criticals that affect speed atm. Ships can also sink due to accidents and mines outside of combat, but not say just from a critical. if we wanted that we would simply sink it right away

Are all majors getting a list of vessel names in the patch as well, like they got division names?

We'll talk about name stuff together with the ship designer
 

podcat

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It's too bad military and ship production are tied to the same system, because I'd love to see this idea taken one step further and have ship production assigned to specific provinces/territories. I find it easier to picture one sprawling naval yard producing a huge battleship than a number of un-connected facilities.
We considered this. I felt it was moving into HOI5 territory a bit with how big of a change it would be
 

seattle

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One suggestion: wouldn't it be better to assign a max percentage of dockyards to repairs instead of an absolute number?
It'd be more flexible and wouldn't require adjustment when expanding production facilities.

Also: there's the question of what happens with damaged dockyards?
Let's say you have 20 dockyards and 6 are damaged via bombing or partisans --> 14 operational dockyards left. With a percentage setting the number of operational dockyards would be taken into account. Let's say 50% max for repairs, then up to 7 are currently used for repairs.
But what if I have a fixed value of 10? Are then up to 10 of the 14 operational dockyards used for repair?
 
Last edited:

Mikeboy

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Suffering a critical hit is a good reason to repair your ships and they need to be fully repaired to remove the effects of the critical hit.

Would be good to see some crits that are timed, particularly thinking about fires here, which would hamper the functioning of a ship while the response team dealt with it, and could cause interesting effects like a carrier deck fire preventing it launching planes, or a small chance a battleship fire could lead to a catastrophic ammunition detonation.