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HOI4 Dev Diary - Mexico

Welcome to Mexico, a country ravaged by internal tensions, corrupt politicians, rural rebellions and threatened by the looming shadow of her northern neighbour. In Man the Guns, you will get the chance to work through all these obstacles, reform the nation and turn them into a power strong enough to expand or involve themselves in WW2.

mexico.jpg


The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
Mexico’s politics at this time were dominated by revolutionary generals who toppled the dictator Diaz and then squabbled amongst themselves, issuing their pronunciamiento (a justification for their attempt to seize power) and betraying one another ruthlessly. Three of the main figures from these caudillos (a word combining the role of warlord, patron, businessman and politician) were President Lázaro Cárdenas, President Plutarco Calles, and military strongman Saturnino Cedillo. The ruling clique gradually turned from coups and civil wars to less violent means of seeking power, but at the start of the game this transition is still taking place.

advisors.png


Lázaro Cárdenas, president from 1934 to 1940, was a socialist who led the nationalisation of Mexican oil concessions, built up state financing of manufacturing industries, encouraged the collectivisation of peasant farms and their protection from landlords via Ejido militias, and is celebrated today for his role in modernising the nation. Historically he helped the transition of Mexico from military dictatorship to a stable and functioning democracy thanks to his ability to both compromise with moderate opposition and undermine domestic threats to the state from extremists.

MEX_Calles_in_power.png


Plutarco Calles, president from 1924 to 1928 and “shadow president” for much of the reigns of his successors, was a divisive figure to say the least. He attempted to cement the state’s power over the Catholic Church in Mexico using brutal suppression of priests and their faithful, going as far as torturing and even crucifying dissidents. The Cristiada, a rebellion by rural farmers to oppose this forced secularisation, won little success in the field against Calles’ troops, hardened as they were by civil war and supported by modern artillery and bomber planes, but it did cause some concern inside the ruling clique over methods, ultimately leading to a compromise between church and state. Calles still clings to the power he has left, and you must either throw him out of the country or accept his role in the new Mexico.
unit_models.png


Saturnino Cedillo, governor of San Luis Potosí, was one of the last of the caudillos to threaten the Mexican state. A survivor, he absorbed remnants of the Cristero rebels into his private army and managed to maintain relative independence in his province which the central government sought to crush. Ultimately he rebelled against Cardenas’ incursions into his power base. Historically his rebellion was short lived as the Cardenas government successfully undercut his support and disarmed his paramilitary forces, killing him in the field within a few months. Cardenas suspected America and Britain of inciting Cedillo’s rebellion by promising support, in order to punish Mexico for seizing their oil concessions, but no such support ever arrived.

Economic Development
economic_tree.png


Mexico is a major producer of oil at the game start and only stands to increase its role as an exporter as the conflagration grips the world and upsets the flow of trade around the globe. Historically Mexico’s nationalisation of the concessions granted by Cardenas’ predecessors (mostly to Royal Dutch Shell and Standard Oil of California) caused a backlash from Britain and America which served to isolate Mexico and almost pushed them into the arms of the Germans. In game, you must develop your oil if you wish to become a major international player, and on the way you will build up your infrastructure using either Cardenas’ path of socialism and import substitution, or his successor Avila’s preference, liberalisation and privatisation.

oil_concessions.png


As seen in the Dutch dev diary, HoI4 is getting a new mechanic relating to concessions of resources from one country to another, which transfers the contents of a state free of charge. This will make its appearance in Mexico in the form of oil concessions to Royal Dutch Shell and Standard Oil of California. Nationalising these assets was a goal of the Mexican revolutionaries from the outset, and became a source of friction between Mexico and the former owners (Britain and America respectively) once President Cardenas actually took steps towards nationalisation.

oil_focuses.png



Military Expansion
military_tree.png


Mexico begins in 1936 as a war-weary third rate power, wracked by internal tensions and the legacy of decades of civil war. This was not always the case, however. The armaments industry established by President Diaz prior to the instability was making many advances in weapons technology, aircraft production, and even experiments in tank development. The famous Mondragon rifle was one of the earliest pioneers in semi-automatic small arms. A more assertive Mexico would also likely reject reliance on Italian gunboats and American hand-me-down destroyers if she sought to contest the oceans.

guns.png

aircraft.png


After building up factories and shipyards, you have a choice to make on both the army and naval branches of the tree.

A Mexico uninterested in fighting decisive battles might instead decide to focus on convoy raiding, whereas choosing the contest the surface against your rivals will require a powerful surface fleet. The two “finishers” on the naval tree reflect these differences.

naval_ideas.png


When it came to land battles during the various insurrections against the central government, Mexico utilised her infantry, cavalry and nascent airforce in a powerful combined arms force the rebels were unable to defeat, and you will likewise be able to modernise the different branches of the armed forces until deciding between conventional artillery or aerial support as the “finisher” on the army side of the tree.

army_ideas.png


Diplomatic Relations
diplomatic_tree.png


Mexico is considered America’s “backyard”, an insulting and imperious attitude for the Yanquis to take but one the Mexican leadership must consider seriously before making their move. Taking independent action on the international stage, aligning towards one of America’s enemies, or threatening America’s economic interests would all be causes of concern for President Roosevelt, let alone his more expansionist domestic rivals. Mexico can gamble on her northern neighbour being too isolationist to intervene south, but if the gamble doesn’t pay off, there’ll be Hell to pay.

faction_focuses.png



Religion
The biggest divide in Mexican society at the time was certainly the place of the Church within society. Most of the Mexican ruling class was strongly anticlerical and a law “on the tolerance of sects” meant that the priests heavily controlled by the state. If you want to change the situation, it will be up to you to progressively support the Catholic Church by giving back their lands and amend the anticlerical laws. If you go down that path the destruction of the separation between the Church and the State will be waiting for you at the end of the road.
MEX_church_power_decisions.png


Two groups can rise to power hand in hand with the Church: the Catholic conservatives and the Synarchists. The conservatives try to combine their religious beliefs with republican institutions. It would lead to the rise of the Party of National Action of Manuel Gómez Morín. As an alternative, the restoration of the Church can be concomitant with a much more radical group: the Synarchists. That group will try to institute a “clerical-fascist” state, using the influence of the members of the Church eager to seek their revenge on the anticlericalists who ruled Mexico since the 1911 revolution. At the end of both trees, you can contact the veterans of the Cristero War and incorporate them to your armed forces. Such course of action will obviously anger the former ruling class that will surely try to contest power in order to reestablish the anticlerical legal system.

Revolutionary Legacy
At the start of the game, the Mexican army is divided politically as various generals support their own political group depending on their political orientation (they were usually opposed to the Church). One of your first choice will therefore concern the fate of the armed forces. You can choose to control and depoliticize them, transforming them into a professional force or embrace one of those groups and use them to quickly shift the political landscape of the country.

If you choose to support the Gold Shirts, the country will evolve into an anticlerical authoritarian regime. The exact nature of that regime can however vary a bit. Supporting Plutarco Calles (by selecting the “Jefe Maximo” focus) will grant direct control over the state as he was unable to fully control Cardenas. If Calles was previously exiled and the general Saturnino Cedillo was supported however, he will lead the opposition and take control of the government. If none of those conditions are fulfilled, Nicolás Rodríguez Carrasco, the leader of the Gold Shirts will lead the country instead.

civil_wars.png

MEX_saturnino_cedillo.png


As an alternative to right-wing authoritarianism, you can favor the communist Red Shirts and suppress other political movements instead. This revolutionary movement will give the presidential seat to the Trotskyist head of the communist party Hernán Laborde

MEX_hernan_laborde.png


… unless you invited his mentor to the government previously.

MEX_trotsky_is_marching_home.png


You would then be rewarded by Leon himself, awake and angry, ready to take his revenge against Stalin

MEX_Trotsky_awake_and_angry.png


It would then be your objective to lead the 4th Internationale and show how superior it is to the 3rd (aka the Comintern).

If you want more peaceful solutions, multiple tools are at your disposal, depending on your political orientation. If you are communist and don’t want to embrace the political legacy of the 4th International, you can try to form the Revolutionary American League and spread communism in Latin American countries.

As a more right wing oriented government, you can support “Hispanism”; the concept that the countries of South America should support each other; and try to form a faction including all of South America. If you are fascist (Synarchist or anticlerical), the effect will change from a diplomatic offensive to a more violent one. This course of action will allow you access to wargoal focuses that could enable you to unite South America by force.

If trying to dramatically change the political order in Latin America is not your thing, you can simply adopt “Realpolitik” and find allies in order to survive this era of global conflict.

Territorial Expansion
If you don’t want to just send a few planes to help the US against the Japanese, several expansion paths will be available to you once your diplomatic status is settled. Most of those will grant you wargoals against neighboring countries and in some cases, the addition of new cores will become possible.

MEX_territorial_integration.png


The most peculiar plan is certainly “Operation Just Cause”. If you approve that plan you will be in a border conflict against US in order take control of the Panama canal area.

MEX_operation_just_cause.png


This will of course anger the US so be careful. The rest is either pretty straightforward or will be food for thoughts until the release.

Mexico was our final focus tree for MTG, so next we return to to the seas for more naval gameplay updates.

Rejected Titles:
  • Mexico? More like Maxico!
  • Making your casa my casa
  • Where in the world is Leon Trotsky?
  • No one expects the Mexican inquisition. Seriously. No one...
  • Mexico, or how I learned to stop worrying and love el jefe
  • Hit or Miss, I Guess They Never Miss Huh, You Got a Trotsky, Stalin gon' Icepick Ya

READ Thread mark before posting (no offtopic spam)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Axe99

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Oh I didn't know that, but anyway those were very good points mate and thanks for pointing out that the fact that most of their ships went around and real life as since I did not know I would never have corrected myself so thanks for correcting me!

Anytime you need a boring post with a naval reference, just let me know :). And no worries at all - note that while I'll always try to post accurately (and I'm very confident about my previous post, or it would have had appropriately less confident language) I do get things wrong as well - there's soooooo much to any period in history, and the second world war is more complicated than most (although, at least as a bonus, it's relatively well documented).

Another thing if Germany captured Gibraltar would be an Italian and/or German surface fleet based at Gibraltar, that would be very difficult to attack (nearest friendly bases I think - but I'm less confident about this - were UK and Freetown, and perhaps the Caribbean) that would probably be able to make trade into the South Atlantic very difficult (thus making shipping anything from the Middle East, like the Iranian and Iraqi oil that the British had the rights to, back to Europe would be all sorts of painful - and presumably reinforcements to Africa would need to go a long way around the Spanish Coast, potentially extending the distance travelled even further, putting further strain on available shipping). So losing Gibraltar is still bad news for Africa :).
 

rust95

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I'm not really sure what to say. Is any of this... relevant to WWII in any way? Some of those national spirits seem odd too, I'm not sure why Mexican airpower would be inherently superior to those of major nations that have the same levels of XP, technology, etc.

This game left the WW2 sim style of HoI3 long long ago. It has gone down a far more EU4esque path.
 

rust95

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I'm not really happy about Mexico being the last country to get a new focus tree in the game. There are so many more countries that are so much more important to WW2 then Mexico and the Netherlands such as imo Spain, Finland, Norway, Brazil, Belgium, Siam and Turkey. I think those 7 countries should have gotten a focus tree way before Mexico and most before the Netherlands.

What do you guys think?

Spain for me has always felt like it needed one from day 1!!!
 

Jeankazuhiza

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There's something that annoys me a bit...

If the player decides to make Mexico an fascist anti-clerical nation, the name of the party should be Revolutionary Mexicanist Action, since the National Synarchist Union defends the church.
 

TheDungen

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This game left the WW2 sim style of HoI3 long long ago. It has gone down a far more EU4esque path.
Narrative alternate history is not Eu4-esque. Eu4 is risk-esque.
 

Sir.Dr.X

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Can you add the liberation theology option for Mexico, for players who whant go communist rode but whant allso support the church ?

What if player as mexico get a trotsky option and player USSR go with trotsky as well ? Whill by then 2 Trotskys on the world ? One in mexico and one in USRR ?
 

El Overlord

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The bottom are the ones you change to, the top are defaults. The monarchist flag is there in case you get puppeted by the French Empire

Is it only possible to achieve a monarchical Mexican with a monarchical France, or can other European monarchical countries like the Germany of Kaiser, Austrohungria, Italy (monarchy), etc. get it too?
 

ThaHoward

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What would happen if both the USSR and Mexico go Trotskyist? I see that Trotskyist Mexico wish to strike the Union, would Trotsky then be at war with Trotsky? :p
 

Nimitz12345

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Alright Im really wondering what Paradox had in mind before they choose to put Mexico in the DLC. Like, how did they planned on let this thing work out? Because in MP, the US will go straight for the Monro doctrine which forces Mexico to got democratic or make rules that they can't switch ideology. The time Mexico goes fascist or communist, they cant do shit because US will just intervene. This makes Mexico absolutely worthless to use in MP.
 

big_feef

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OK, as if this expansion didn't already have enough incentives in it for me (the naval rework). As someone who has lived in Mexico for more than 15 years; I've been chomping at the bit for a Mexico scenario that has a real chance (without resorting to gamey mechanics and tactics) to strike back at the 'gringos' and establish itself as at least a regional power. I was going to go full Japan in MtG; but I'll have to split that with some Mexico now. Thank you!
 

Rafled

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Its not that people find minors less interesting then the majors. Its more how does said minor add to the game and enhance the experience of actually playing out the 2nd world war. Now the split comes when people think the historical attribute should take precedence over the alternative history/fantasy and that is a big factor here as it determines alot including the overall decisions within the key choice system of the game. Mexico can very well add to this game in both scenarios and be enjoyable while doing so. But the way Paradox has gone about the design of nations focus trees we see more of a shift for Alternative historical priority simply to make a bigger splash and entice people to buy. Which overtime has gotten a bit more out of reach and invasive from what alot of people consider plausible circumstances within the context of a WW2 esq timeline. This tree is a bit more tame compared to previous examples/pathways and the line between alternative history and actual history are relatively blurred because of the overall climate of Mexico at this stage. However the preference remains for some that historical depth trumps over any alternative fantasy that may come about it. Trosky Mexico is just the most prominent thing that sticks out in this case in regards to ludicrous scenarios.

But that (Trotsky) won't happen when playing a historical game, and generic tree updated makes for a more realistic experience, or at least hopefully a more detailed WWII experience.
 

Rafled

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Well I am sorry I didn't look it up but most of the Mexicans I meet and have seen are either rude guys that hate Americans, are part of gangs, or drug cartels and sure I have met some great people from Mexico but they are so few in numbers that my general opinion of Mexico became that way but maybe it is just a bunch of bad ones coming into the United States I guess but I don't know for sure.

As a school teacher living in southern California, I can tell you my experience is exactly the opposite. The children are happy to be here, polite, friendly and hard working. Their parents are as well. Border control is one thing, negative mass generalization is another.
 

infinite_ant

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With all the wildly implausbile alternate history scenarios, I expected there to be national focii about beautiful 80 foot tall walls and Mexico magically agreeing to eat the bill.
The 1 year old comedian with an Emu puppet acting as Despot in the main game was fine though? Australia had an expansion dedicated to the Commonwealth and STILL has the wrong PM in 1936. Hearts of Iron 4 is an alternate history fantasy game.
 

Sultan Suleiman

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With all the wildly implausbile alternate history scenarios, I expected there to be national focii about beautiful 80 foot tall walls and Mexico magically agreeing to eat the bill.

Orson.gif


Regarding the debate as to what form of government Mexico is represented as (i.e. a corrupt, authoritarian but decidedly non-fascist state), isn't that what the Non-Aligned ideology is for? From what I can tell, that aspect is being retained from vanilla. One could make the argument that it voids Mexico's place in a naval/democracy-themed DLC, but, eh--I think that's being a tad nitpicky. Cardenas, according to general consensus, seems to have been at least a democratically-inclined socialist president, with most of the worst abuses of power perpetrated by his predecessors. Mexico in 1936 is a political system in transition, no doubt, but I think its inclusion makes sense given how the country ties into other aspects of Man the Guns. No need to invoke the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law, methinks.

The argument that alternate history content drains resources from "the core game" rears its head every so often, as it has done here, and has been thoroughly discredited. One, no fan has the game's budget in front of them and thus is in a position to make such determinations; and two, PDX has repeatedly made it clear that it can't and won't charge to improve essential elements, such as the AI, the historical branches on revamped focus trees, etc. The only way to improve those things is to give the coders more time, and the only way to buy that time is with money made from the "expanded" content in DLC (the theme of which is chosen by observing metrics and reading the forum). Put simply: no alternative history, no DLC, no improved "core game." Rather than alt-history "stripping away" historical play, it's quite the opposite: alternative history makes better historical play possible.

On a final note, it's great to see so many Mexicans and Mexico enthusiasts expressing their appreciation for the new focus tree. Expanding HoI IV this way makes it feel like we're progressing to a more ambitious simulator of the early/mid 20th century in general, a point some dislike but the possibilities of which turned me onto the game in the first place.
 
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