HOI4 Dev Diary - Greece

Hey all! After a long break over the summer, we are back with our regularly-scheduled dev diaries! Before we delve into today’s main topic, let me give you some info on what we will be doing next and how this dev diary fits into the overall scheme of things.

Way back in 2017, we released Death or Dishonor, something we called a Country Pack at the time. Back then, the community was mainly asking for big new flashy mechanics and revamps of game systems, so the initial reaction from the community was pretty mixed. In hindsight perhaps we shouldn't have been surprised :D. These days though we are bombarded with requests of more, better and bigger focus trees, and people are wondering if it's going to take 10 years to add trees to everyone? As a Content Designer, it has been very rewarding to see the community get more excited to see focus trees!

So we have decided to bring back the idea of a Country Pack, a smaller expansion that focuses on a specific part of the world and covering 3-4 minor nations. But at the same time, we didn’t want to put the entire team on it while there were still other parts of the game we wanted to work on such as adding an intelligence system. The idea is that this will let us increase how many focus trees and flavor we add while still being able to deliver big juicy features in larger expansions.

The approach we took was to recruit a freelancer to work on the focus trees while the rest of the team in Stockholm worked on the next big DLC, which would eventually become La Resistance. Today we are going to show you the first of the new focus trees coming in the next country pack, and in the coming weeks we will share more information on what other countries get focus trees in the pack, as well as what other content will accompany the release. As always, the country pack will be accompanied by a patch that will fix some bugs as well.

We think that this approach allows us to get more content to you faster, without taking resources away from the main team, which continues to work on the next big DLC. You will get more information on what that DLC contains after the country pack releases later this year (disclaimer: it is 2020 and fate can be fickle).

I’ll now hand you over to the man of the hour: Freelance CD Busby, working from Australia!


G’day, my name is Busby and I am the Freelance Content Designer who was responsible for putting together Greece and another soon-to-be-revealed mystery nation! ‘Freelance Content Designer’, I hear you ask, ‘how does that differ from your standard run-of-the-mill Content Designer’? Well, with COVID-19, those lines have certainly blurred; nominally, it means that I work remotely of the core team so I can focus on getting this pack out to you while they all collaborate on the next big expansion! Of course, I didn’t work alone, and you’ll be hearing from a familiar face who worked with me on this next week!

Before kicking things off, I just want to say as someone who used to read Hearts of Iron IV Dev Diaries on my lunch break in high school that it is an absolute privilege and an honour to be presenting you all with one of my very own! So, without further ado: Greece!

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Greece was a very interesting challenge to tackle, they are well known for repulsing the Italian invasion of their nation and then successfully launching a counter-offensive of their own, which culminated in the Capture of Klisura Pass. So, it was important that Greece be able to play defensively, but it would also have been thoughtless to neglect what might be one of the world’s richest histories that shared in some of the grandest of accomplishments. Greece has been the beating heart of many historical empires, so they had to be capable of reaching their historical heights but without neglecting the many challenges that faced them at the time.

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To say that Greece is in a challenging position in 1936 would be a great understatement. The Hellenic Armed Forces are the one positive in a sea of negatives, and even they’re woefully underequipped. Greece’s economic and political issues are represented through their starting national spirits:
  • I am going to start first with Greece’s broadly encompassing Political Instability spirit. Greece was mired in political uncertainty throughout the entirety of the Great War, and although they were finally able to rally around the prolific political leader and vocal republican Eleftherios Venizelos for a time, this newfound stability was not to last. Greece decisively lost the Greco-Turkish War that immediately followed the Great War, and this loss sent shockwaves throughout the entire political scene: there were many coups, a dictatorship, and finally the Second Hellenic Republic came to a bitter end by November of 1935. In 1936, the country remains divided among those who believe in the institution of the monarchy, and those who are followers of the liberal democratic ideologue Eleftherios Venizelos.

  • The restoration of the monarchy turned the Greek political situation on its head: King George II, exiled in 1923, is back on his throne while Eleftherios Venizelos hides in exile after being forced to flee the country in 1935. The status of King George II serves as the ‘hook’ for every political path in the focus tree, but that will be addressed shortly. For now, understand that King George II’s status as monarch of the Kingdom of Greece is precarious to say the least.

  • The next four spirits are related to Greece’s economic situation, which is… not in a good state. Greece is buried underneath the tremendous debt it has accumulated over the past few decades, and this is represented through Greece’s Debt to the International Finance Commission spirit. If Greece wishes to free itself from the burdens of its debt, it will have to satisfy the three great powers holding the Greek economy hostage, and those would be the usual suspects: France, the United Kingdom, and the Kingdom of Italy.

  • Greece’s colossal debt is only the start of Greece’s economic woes: Greece remains one of the only mostly agrarian economies in all of Europe by the game start, and this has spawned two issues: 1). Greece’s economy and working class are centered around their agricultural sector rather than the nation’s industrial output, and 2). Greece’s agrarian economy has led to a dependence on foreign nations to supply their heavy industry for Greece’s construction needs. Greece’s industrial paths are focussed on nullifying these issues while also rapidly modernising the country so Greece is able to still compete with its neighbours.

  • But it’s not all bad for Greece, for they have a continental guardian angel to assist with their crippling economic hardship… Germany! Yes, the Schachtplan, a clever mechanism that gives the Germans a higher degree of control over the country’s finances and natural resources, but when you’re struggling as hard as Greece you take any form of reprieve you can get - even if it is ultimately serving German hegemonic aims in Europe.
Now, I know these debuffs seem rough - perhaps even discouraging - but every negative national spirit can be removed or mitigated through Greece’s focus tree, which you can see here!

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We shall be going through the focus tree from right-to-left, like an old Japanese novel!

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Greece can often find itself wanting for manpower so most Greek games aren’t going to be about amassing large armies but rather about fielding a smaller, professional army. The same applies to Greece’s navy and air force, but with the right sponsor who’s to say Greece couldn’t put one of its decommissioned battleships back into action?

Each armed forces branch offers at least one permanent national modifier that helps ensure Greece can set up a successful defensive game even if it can’t muster the manpower or equipment for a large army. The Hellenic Academy Battleplans should help quite a great deal in this!

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Greece can preemptively draw up defensive plans against the major powers of Europe as well as its smaller but no less threatening neighbours. These temporary boosts to defense, and even to attack in some cases, should ensure Greece can successfully hold any frontline so long as they aren’t being faced with an overwhelming force - very much like real life! Next, let’s look at how you can get your industrial base to match the level of excellence of your armed forces.

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Greece’s industrial path is your one-stop shop to access the means of eliminating those pesky national spirits that Greece starts with. The first focus, which is 35 days, unlocks the ability to chip away at that pesky Debt to the I.F.C. through decisions.
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Greece immediately unlocks the ability to make small debt repayments after finishing the first industrial focus, and other options can be unlocked along the way. The forced industrialisation path, for example, offers a faster route to getting rid of the Debt to the I.F.C. spirit by unlocking large debt repayments - and while they are more resource intensive than small debt repayments, they can clear a debt away very quickly. Of course, if Greece happens to fall under the influence of a regime that doesn’t quite play by the established rules of the liberal democratic world then there will of course be other roads opened up to circumvent the nasty capitalist plot to ruin the Greek economy!

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Greece’s two branching paths in the industrial path allow the player to choose how the Greek economy modernises: they can either double-down on their service economy and use Greece’s large commodity export sector to enrich the nation using the means of the outside world, or they can force their farmers off their farms and into the cities so Greece can be brought fully into the twentieth century. As the path progresses, the effects of the Foreign Monopolies spirit will be lessened and lessened until finally they can be abolished or co-opted to the benefit of the Greek state. Greek national companies, which require the Foreign Monopolies to be banished, apply better modifiers but the foreign companies are cheaper and ultimately easier to attain.

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Next up are the investment focuses: the middle ground between the industrial branches and the political tree. Investment is a nifty way to spend any spare political power in the pursuit of free factories courtesy of your ally or sponsor. It would be wise to show restraint, however, for the sponsoring country will take on a pretty hefty penalty while they prepare to fulfill any pledges they’ve made to Greece.


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Ah, and now we get to the real meat of the tree: the politics. The first big choice of the game comes in the very first month via either a focus or decision, where the player will have to decide whether to place the king under arrest to prevent him from meddling in the election or allow him to forcibly establish a governmental mandate for the monarchists.

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Let’s start with the historical path, where the monarchists win their election and the king appoints former officer and arch-enemy of the republicans Ioannis Metaxas as prime minister and soon-to-be-dictator.
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The Metaxist path is all about trying to maintain your neutrality for as long as possible so you can take all the Metaxist focuses which provide some tremendous national buffs that all go away the moment Greece enters a faction. The exception is if the player reaches the end of the Metaxist branch by finishing Reviving the Spartan Warrior Spirit before they join a faction. Of course, the player doesn’t have to wait that long - they can go straight to the Allied path on the left or transform Greece from a quasi-fascist dictatorship into a full-blown fascist regime.

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The aim of the fascists is not only to bring themselves closer to the Axis, but to pressure Turkey into joining the war as an equal ally and partner. To achieve this aim, the player can choose to either appoint George Mercouris or Ioannis Metaxas as their fascist dictator. Of course, there’s always the chance negotiations could be sabotaged, giving the Greek player the opportunity to act counter to Germany’s wishes by forcing the Axis into a conflict with the Turkish regional power. Perhaps that might not be so bad, because while Metaxas is fixated on crafting his Third Hellenic Civilization Mercouris has a decidedly fixated obsession with the First Hellenic Civilization…

But let’s return to Metaxas, because even though he was a Germanophile it must be said that not every member of the Axis has Greece’s best interests at heart.

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Strange times call for strange bedfellows, and despite Metaxas’ fascist leanings he is free to align Greece up with its historical allies in the Mediterranean: the British Empire. Once the overtures have been made, Greece will be free to get down to the business of Cyprus and the facilitation of a change in administration of the island. But Metaxas isn’t the only possible would-be Allies member in the King’s administration…


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...so let’s talk about the Anglophilic King George II himself! Perhaps Metaxas just isn’t going to cut it for Greece, perhaps what Greece really needs is a strong monarch who can serve as a beacon of stability and hope for the Greek people! Of course, the people aren’t going to see it like that - in fact many of them are going to really hate the government’s guts.

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Years of instability and infighting shall culminate in a triumphant civil war between the monarchists and the republicans! It’s perhaps not the most delicate solution, but a good civil war really does have the habit of ironing out a nation in contempt of itself. Take on King George II as your absolute monarch and assist the British in scourging fascism from Europe, or alternatively perhaps a good bit of that fascism has already been purged away and the Central Powers have been reborn. Well, in that case link up with your royalist brethren and fight together to protect the divine right of kings!

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Political Instability keeps coming up as a concept, so let’s look at the spirit. Greece is divided into four factions: the Monarchists, the Republicans, the Communists, and the Fascists. They’re all pretty hateful of each other, but there was also a common consensus that Greece needed to be strong and united in the face of a global catastrophe (like a World War). Not every leader saw it that way, *cough* Metaxas *cough*, so there will be three primary ways of dealing with political instability.

First, to progress the spirit and lower its debuffs it's necessary for progress to be made down the political tree - every ideology has its own unique Political Instability spirit but although the modifiers change the universal principle remains the same.

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The player can choose between smashing a faction and negating the negative debuffs applied to the nation by having a hostile faction, or they can go the longer and more expensive route of co-opting a faction and making them an ally. Generally, the more allied factions the better because more allies means more manpower and more ministers, but sometimes the resources required to commit to such an act would be better spent elsewhere preparing for external threats rather than internal ones.

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Speaking of factions, how about some insight into the most incongruous of factions - the communists! Communism, being allied with the concept of republicanism, requires the Venezelists to seize the election. Once that is done, they can choose to ally together with the communists so that a Third Hellenic Republic can be reborn. However, as you can imagine the communists aren’t really content with anything short of… well… full-blown communism.

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Of all the branches, the communist one perhaps adds the most in terms of industrial potential for Greece: while all those other sucker ideologies focus on culture and heritage, the communists focus on more material achievements. Although, would it really be a communist branch without a doctrinal split near the end?

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Take the nation under the wing of the uncompromising revolutionary Markos Vafeiadis, and assist Josip Broz Tito in his ascent to power in Yugoslavia as you prepare to tackle the fascist menace in Europe. Or perhaps you’re a little more loose with your Marxist morals; perhaps Stalinism doesn’t seem so bad after all! Chairman Nikos Zachariadis is your man!

STALINIST BOSPORUS BATTLE BEGINNING.png


Why waste precious resources fighting fascism when you can leave that to the capitalists! Your objective, like your theory, is based on practicalism and not idealism. Orders from Moscow dictate that the Bosporus must be taken at any cost. To fulfill Stalin’s whims, a crisis must be started - one border conflict shall escalate into another, and before the world knows it Southern Europe will be red from Corfu to Kars!

VENEZELIST PATH.png


...well, that might be all fine and dandy for everybody whose favourite colour is red, but we’ve got one last path to discuss! Yes, yes, the so often spurned democratic path - but even though this path comes last it is certainly not least! Few parties were as influential in Greece’s history between 1910 and 1936 as Eleftherios Venizelos’ Liberal Party, and it was important to me that the player felt some weight playing as these titans of Greek politics. Although, if the Venezelists were titans then Venizelos himself was a colossus. This is reflected in his Ethnarch trait, which provides some much needed manpower and stability - but utilise him while you have him, for he is not long for this world!

VENIZELOS DEATH.png


Something that sets Greece’s liberal democratic party apart from many others is that warmongering is a core part of their doctrine. The Venezelists were staunch believers in the Megali Idea - the irredentist dream of a Greater Greece incorporating many parts of modern day Turkey. The Venezelists made a grand attempt to fulfill the Megali Idea after the Great War… it led to the Greco-Turkish War… which, to put it mildly, did not end well for the Greeks. They were decisively defeated by the Turkish Kemalists, and the Hellenic Republic fell apart shortly afterwards.

When you restore the Venezelists, you inherit their shattered legacy - the only way to restore the reputation of Venezelism is to couple yourself with the monarchists, fulfill the Megali Idea, and avenge the terrible loss the Greek nation endured. But not everybody in Greece believes the Venezelists deserve a second chance…

NEGOTATIONS WITH THE EEE.png


Enter, stage left: a new breed of fascist, Ethniki Enosis Ellados. The EEE collapsed in 1935 due to infighting, but with the reemergence of the Venezelists they have found new purpose: to unite the millions of Greeks who were exiled from their homes in Anatolia after the Greco-Turkish War, and to oust the government that led them into defeat last time. The EEE is a ‘no half measures’ movement, to them the Megali Idea is not worthy of the paper it was written on - when it comes to reclaiming territory from Turkey, it must be all… or nothing.

Playing as the Venezelists, the EEE are going to be a serious thorn in the side of any government trying to effectively unite the country, and before the Megali Idea can be addressed the EEE must be dealt with. There’s a particularly famous and talented young man who was also an exile from Anatolia, and it might be expedient to encourage him to form a counter-movement to thwart the nascent EEE. Or perhaps the player wants to see the EEE in government, well, the option to take them into a coalition is certainly available - although the consequences of this course of action will be on your head…

Once the EEE are out of the way, it will be time to call on the original Treaty of Sèvres signatories so that a frank discussion on the future of the Turkish state can be had. The end result of a particularly fruitful Heraklion Convention is truly a sight to behold.

MEGALI IDEA.png


But should the Venezelists fail… should their legacy be trashed once again, and their leaders thrown out of office… well, that could be a truly dark day for Europe indeed…

THE PURPLE PHOENIX.png


That’s all for this week, so thank you for reading! Make sure to stay tuned for another Dev Diary next week!
 

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Dlin369

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I think Turkey and Bulgaria are definitely on the list, it's hard to say however which country will be the 4th assuming if they will even do the 4th one.
We can rule Austria out since it's not the Balkan nation and PDX always focuses on expanding countries that are neighbouring eachother which allows for bigger interractions between them.

Albania would be a weird choice, simply because it's a small nation and it also dissapeared from the map in 38, unless if they plan to create a submissive path when Italy takes them over, but at the same time they are the only other potentinal nation in that region. I'm also hoping they expand Yugo/Romania focuses and events.

I think the fact that Albania's tree would be fairly short and small might actually help its case - allow them to squeeze it in to the country pack. Especially for alt history scenarios with expansionist Bulgaria, Greece and/or Yugoslavia, having an Albania that can have some minor interactions would be decent. At the very least, reducing the amount of factories it can generate before Italy annexes them would better reflect the historical poverty Albania experience prewar
 
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Zauberelefant

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A person makes an entire post filled with nothing else but ad hominems and calls other trolls, oh the irony. Once again another one of those "everything is fine" brigade who are not here for what are you arguing but "How Dare You Argue". Look back and see if all you got is ad hominems then just stop.

Meanwhile yes to reiterate I am not happy with a supposedly WW2 game, which has the Byzantine empire but no continuation war and over 4 years is not a short time.

And finally, I am agreeing with people and giving them likes even when they don't agree with my viewpoints and are providing counterarguments, the only problematic guys are the ones here who have to resort to ad hominems and strawman and just can't even fathom for some strange reason that people may not like the game at it is and have the gall to present that opinion.
Cool that you acknowledge that it's been over 4 years. Factual statements make debate worthwhile.

You should maybe look up what "ad hominem" means - it's not the expression of "me no like you", but "me no like you, therefore you wrong".
But people can be obnoxious and wrong at the same time, y'know? I think I read something between the lines (or written clearly) that you deem some people, yours sincerely included, to be both wrong and people you'd rather not associate with.

The good news is: you're not wrong. There is no wrong side here, you're just less patient than others and very dependent on consent. (mark: not ad hominem, just a statement on your conduct in this thread)

However, it's odd that in this exchange of opinions, you have a certain air of..."all wrong, me not" and call people funny names, trolls, fanboys, to quote the most prominent. Also, standard tactic of yours is the feigned resignation, but you always manage to come back with the exact same talking point.
But clearly, people responding to your opinions in dissent are at fault.

And now to the facts: the continuation war was in the game, which I distinctly remember, because Finland was always going down vs soviet because of AI trouble. It's now out of the game and that is currently the better solution.

Like you learned, it's been a little less than 5 years, and if the take the period between "bad continuation war" and today, it might be closer to 3, coming from 2. But I don't know exactly. It's been a while.

Byzantine empire is a phantasy, that took, as we learned from other formable fantasy nations, probably one hour of work. Because it doesn't require a focus tree, it doesn't require people, it's a decision with tag change and colour change, requiring few linea of code.
So, yes, if you think that was the one hour that would have made a USSR focus tree, decisions, portraits, Finland focus tree, yadda,yadda, ground war rework, logistics mechanic etc - then yes, PDX are the baddies.

So, the strawmen. I don't know which that would be, as you didn't specify satisfyingly, but again I believe you're not using the term correctly.
Let me steelman instead what I understood:

PDX wilfully did launch an incomplete game that was never intended as a WW2 Simulation, neglected basically every major theatre of WW2 at Launch and then added broken stuff at a glacial pace. You feel tricked as a customer into buying a game that says WW2 on the cover and delivers Al-Andaluz instead. It's inconceivable that people would have a different attitude than yours.

To which I say:

That's pretty accurate, except that hoi4 was always planned and marketed as a sandbox game allowing for alt history.
Knowing the franchise, one should prepare for a little waiting time.
It's certainly not helpful to go around bashing left and right and call people names and refuse to see points that go against your ranting.

I am very sorry for you if your experience in this thread has been less than stellar and if me or someone sharing my sentiments has offended you.
 
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Harin

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Meanwhile yes to reiterate I am not happy with a supposedly WW2 game, which has the Byzantine empire but no continuation war and over 4 years is not a short time.

Forgive me if I am out of bounds, but it seems you would have preferred that the Continuation War had been added to the game well before other content that was added. I get that. I, personally, have a rather long list of things that I believe should have been addressed long ago.

I think the potential of the game to be so much better can get me frustrated when the things I want fixed do not seem to even make the to-do list for the developers. I do hope they get to the Continuation War sooner, rather than later. I have read many posts about the Continuation War, so you are not alone. One poster in particular I like to read is @Fulmen, when it comes to Finland, though there are quit a few others with meaningful knowledge on the subject. You should do a search and see for yourself. After you catch up on what others are saying about the subject maybe you would post on the Suggestion Page some specifics.

After all these years, it does seem probable that the next large DLC will address the East Front. That expansion has the greatest chance of addressing the Continuation War than any other past DLC. I suspect some of the things on my list have a decent chance of getting addressed then. Good luck on your list.
 
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Áurum

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I think this is a cool move and don’t really understand why people are moaning.

Its extra content while not pulling the main team away from the big stuff, as long as it’s the same quality as the main teams work (which from this brief intro to it I can see no reason it wouldn’t be) why wouldn’t you like it.
Anything that helps to add new content is fine. Not every new focus tree needs new mechanics.
 
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fuser312

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Cool that you acknowledge that it's been over 4 years. Factual statements make debate worthwhile.

Never said otherwise. I don't know what you are trying to do here. If you are lying please stop, how can it work? If not then you really need to go back clear your mind and read the discussion before coming back.

You should maybe look up what "ad hominem" means - it's not the expression of "me no like you", but "me no like you, therefore you wrong".
But people can be obnoxious and wrong at the same time, y'know? I think I read something between the lines (or written clearly) that you deem some people, yours sincerely included, to be both wrong and people you'd rather not associate with.

The post of mine that you are quoting was literally in response to a post that didn't address any of my actual points, called me names like troll ergo my argument has no merit. That's the literal definition of ad hominem. Rather than trying to act high and mighty, try to follow the discussion.

However, it's odd that in this exchange of opinions, you have a certain air of..."all wrong, me not" and call people funny names, trolls, fanboys, to quote the most prominent. Also, standard tactic of yours is the feigned resignation, but you always manage to come back with the exact same talking point.
But clearly, people responding to your opinions in dissent are at fault.

It's more interesting that you see fault in my behavior but not in posts that have been literally nothing but personal attacks. Nowhere I called anyone troll but get called that and yup it's interesting that you found that problematic but not because someone called me that, only because you thought I said that, that's the only thing matters. All I did was called someone fanboy for the first response I got on my first point here was that I was throwing a tantrum. Once again interesting that you didn't find that problematic but my response was to you. So please stop this charade of you just wanting a civil discussion, you just don't like my opinion and rather than arguing in good faith trying to come up with all these excuses to discredit them. This is especially rich coming from a person who is so entitled that they were belittling another poster for not being a poster on the forum for long enough.


So, the strawmen. I don't know which that would be, as you didn't specify satisfyingly, but again I believe you're not using the term correctly.

Again, it's not my problem if you can't follow the discussion, you literally in your first response to me said that I don't think Greece is important, and I did mention that it's a Strawman as I never said anything like that. Once again a literal strawman, please go back and follow the discussion before coming back, this is getting ridiculous. Do go back and try to follow the discussion first.

Like you learned, it's been a little less than 5 years, and if the take the period between "bad continuation war" and today, it might be closer to 3, coming from 2. But I don't know exactly. It's been a while.

Naah I knew that. It's you who is completely devoid of any counter-argument and has to fall back to these stupid shenanigans. Strawman, Ad-Hominem, and now this which I seriously can't tell what it is. Is it really a lie or you really just can't follow a discussion and just want to attack me for I said something that you don't agree with.

Byzantine empire is a phantasy, that took, as we learned from other formable fantasy nations, probably one hour of work. Because it doesn't require a focus tree, it doesn't require people, it's a decision with tag change and colour change, requiring few linea of code.
So, yes, if you think that was the one hour that would have made a USSR focus tree, decisions, portraits, Finland focus tree, yadda,yadda, ground war rework, logistics mechanic, etc - then yes, PDX are the baddies.

Please don't go into hyperbole territory. If your statement starts with "if you think" "you are thinking" just stop. You are about to create a strawman, quote my actual statements, or ask me, this is plain stupid.

That's pretty accurate, except that hoi4 was always planned and marketed as a sandbox game allowing for alt history.
Knowing the franchise, one should prepare for a little waiting time.

Finally, something worthwhile that can be addressed. To me, there is a difference between alt-history and fantasy. Britain going through operation pike and declaring war on USSR is alt-history. Napoleon in France is just fantasy. The simple fact that I have been saying for so long now is that when we have so many fantasy scenario while we lack actual ww2 scenarios, there is clearly at least to me a priority issue. And 4+ year is not a small-time, I have no idea why people think even when game is in the 5th year that just give it time.

It's certainly not helpful to go around bashing left and right and call people names and refuse to see points that go against your ranting.

Once again you clearly ignore all the personal attacks on me from the very beginning but nitpick my comment when I said fanboy while you and many others have constantly done nothing but personally attack me as in this very post of yours too and then you try to act high and mighty about it it's just pathetic, just own up to yours sh** too. I know I haven't been a great example of a civil discussion in this thread but at least I have the honesty to own up to it unlike you and few others who clearly can't see the uncivil behavior and personal attacks, name callings when the side that represents their pov is doing it. If you can't do that, just stop preaching.

Once again it is only you and couple of others who started personal attacks that I am responding with hostility (which tbh I should have avoided ) while people who are genuinely trying to address my points while disagreeing with me are getting acknowledgments from me in the form of likes as can be seen in history. So in closing remarks, if you want to address my point try to do so in a genuine way, don't try to be a preacher when your own house is not in order, you just seem someone who doesn't want to discuss in a good faith at all, given all the hypocritical preachings, strawmen, ad hominems, etc. Try to do better.
 
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Zauberelefant

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Never said otherwise. I don't know what you are trying to do here. If you are lying please stop, how can it work? If not then you really need to go back clear your mind and read the discussion before coming back.



The post of mine that you are quoting was literally in response to a post that didn't address any of my actual points, called me names like troll ergo my argument has no merit. That's the literal definition of ad hominem. Rather than trying to act high and mighty, try to follow the discussion.



It's more interesting that you see fault in my behavior but not in posts that have been literally nothing but personal attacks. Nowhere I called anyone troll but get called that and yup it's interesting that you found that problematic but not because someone called me that, only because you thought I said that, that's the only thing matters. All I did was called someone fanboy for the first response I got on my first point here was that I was throwing a tantrum. Once again interesting that you didn't find that problematic but my response was to you. So please stop this charade of you just wanting a civil discussion, you just don't like my opinion and rather than arguing in good faith trying to come up with all these excuses to discredit them. This is especially rich coming from a person who is so entitled that they were belittling another poster for not being a poster on the forum for long enough.




Again, it's not my problem if you can't follow the discussion, you literally in your first response to me said that I don't think Greece is important, and I did mention that it's a Strawman as I never said anything like that. Once again a literal strawman, please go back and follow the discussion before coming back, this is getting ridiculous. Do go back and try to follow the discussion first.



Naah I knew that. It's you who is completely devoid of any counter-argument and has to fall back to these stupid shenanigans. Strawman, Ad-Hominem, and now this which I seriously can't tell what it is. Is it really a lie or you really just can't follow a discussion and just want to attack me for I said something that you don't agree with.



Please don't go into hyperbole territory. If your statement starts with "if you think" "you are thinking" just stop. You are about to create a strawman, quote my actual statements, or ask me, this is plain stupid.



Finally, something worthwhile that can be addressed. To me, there is a difference between alt-history and fantasy. Britain going through operation pike and declaring war on USSR is alt-history. Napoleon in France is just fantasy. The simple fact that I have been saying for so long now is that when we have so many fantasy scenario while we lack actual ww2 scenarios, there is clearly at least to me a priority issue. And 4+ year is not a small-time, I have no idea why people think even when game is in the 5th year that just give it time.



Once again you clearly ignore all the personal attacks on me from the very beginning but nitpick my comment when I said fanboy while you and many others have constantly done nothing but personally attack me as in this very post of yours too and then you try to act high and mighty about it it's just pathetic, just own up to yours sh** too. I know I haven't been a great example of a civil discussion in this thread but at least I have the honesty to own up to it unlike you and few others who clearly can't see the uncivil behavior and personal attacks, name callings when the side that represents their pov is doing it. If you can't do that, just stop preaching.

Once again it is only you and couple of others who started personal attacks that I am responding with hostility (which tbh I should have avoided ) while people who are genuinely trying to address my points while disagreeing with me are getting acknowledgments from me in the form of likes as can be seen in history. So in closing remarks, if you want to address my point try to do so in a genuine way, don't try to be a preacher when your own house is not in order, you just seem someone who doesn't want to discuss in a good faith at all, given all the hypocritical preachings, strawmen, ad hominems, etc. Try to do better.

I actually went back to have a leg to stand on.
1. You used the word fanboys in your second post, immediately after someone disagreed to your assessment, without specifying who is meant by that. Sorry, but that isn't the standard you are trying to hold me to.
2. Your post *not about Greece*, where I "strawmanned" you, was about, quote: "countries that played a pivotal role in ww2, like Italy and USSR".
I then asked if you deemed greece, first country to defeat Italy, forcing German intervention on the Balkans, necessitating the demise of the German paratrooper branch, unimportant, which in the context of things going on means: so unimportant that external work which doesn't affect the main schedule should be postponed/not done.
3. I was there thinking that you first said it was over 5 years and no continuation war. Maybe I got that wrong. Fact however is that continuation war was at first in the game. We are in the 3rd year of no continuation war.

4. When I call out someone for creating an account to just spread his blanket disapproval in a rather uncivil manner, that doesn't say that I think people need to spend X time here to have an opinion. I engage in fruitful discussions with "newbies" here, but I think going through the process of creating an account just to have it banned a day later is stupid. Interestingly, I didn't bring that up with you, despite your few posts up to this date.

Anyway, I get it, you're frustrated. Maybe tell that to PDX in a way that reaches them, because the 244th post in a DD thread is unlikely to attract much attention.
 
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Marchael

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Thrilled to see Paradox working on the Byzantine Empire instead of well known problems with the AI.

You do realize they got a freelancer to do this tree right? It's not like Paradox is pouring all their resources into a Greek tree. They literally said that in this dev diary. You may not have read that.
 
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Chary_

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Really hope those Bulgarian province changes aren't final, I mean if you're gonna split it up at least make Pirin it's own state for Yugoslavia to grab or something
 

blahmaster6k

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It should be noted that some band-aid solutions, like Japan's surrender of its mainland territories, are bugged. China can take Korea after that happens but it's considered to be an occupied territory for the rest of the game so you can't grow your compliance there or anything like that. The same thing happens when Iceland becomes independent from Denmark. If someone has already occupied Iceland and then Denmark proper falls, the "Iceland takes control of foreign affairs" event still pops up and you have to deal with a non-compliant Iceland for the rest of the game

As far as peace deals are concerned I'm partial to the idea of "you conquered it, you get to decide what happens to it." That's generally how the end of WWII happened, and Stalin himself remarked that the conquerors of WWII got to decide the political destinies of the territories they captured. Situations like the United States puppeting Poland when it was occupied by the Soviets during the war, while East Germany, Czechoslovakia, the Baltics and Romania are all in the Soviet sphere of influence, are nonsensical.
I remember this bug, I as China had the ability to build factories in Korea and had resistance there, but I didn't own it since Korea was independent.
 

Beserker

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I just want my Brazil well represented in the future ✊ (both in game and in real life with politicians lol)

I also wanted to know if someone can answer a question ...

I saw a youtuber that I watch raising a question

Many countries have the non-aligned party "representing" monarchs and monarchical systems, but other countries like Brazil have the non-aligned party representing systems like the new State of Brazil that would be more of a fascist system that simply did not join the Axis because the that the USA offered to Brazil was more opportune, so what I think would be the time also to reshape the game's policy in a general context, adding systems as happened with the USA ... adding also more political parties just like it had in HOI3

I am with you on this one - Brazil has to be better represented (but, just like you, I am clearly biased) and the return of country packs really gives me hope that something could come soon.

Regarding ideologies, if I recall, they have already stated that “Non-Aligned” will have to be split, in order to have a proper Monarchist ideology. Right now, it really doesn’t make sense, as if you restore the Kaiser you get a +10 opinion buff with the ANARCHISTS. I mean, it is really nonsensical.

Also, I hope that, when they work on Brazil, they already have a proper Monarchist ideology. Getúlio Vargas becoming an integralist just because Portugal is boosting monarchism makes absolutely no sense, and having “monarchist” as a separate thing would easily fix that.
 
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Beserker

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Italy will be fully reworked in an expansion, not a country pack.

You know, I find that a bit... odd. Don’t get me wrong, Italy SHOULD be in an expansion, that’s for sure. But now that they are tackling Greece, and probably Turkey and Bulgaria, where would Italy fit?

Contrary to most people, I think Italy’s FT is by far worse than that of the Soviets and deserves more love. But I can’t see who would come with Italy in an expansion... Austria? Albania? Ethiopia? Switzerland? The first three are annexed rather soon and Switzerland... is Switzerland :) - they were 100% neutral the entire war!

In short, I just can’t see how they could add an “Italy themed” expansion after this pack is released. It would either be pretty much Italy alone, or Italy + 3 other random nations or so...

Anyhow, it’s just speculation, at this point. We’ll have to wait and see
 
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Beserker

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Omg independent transylvania :O

When I noticed this, I couldn’t believe I hadn’t seen anyone talk about this here. Finally someone comments about it! That screenshot as a whole is very interesting. Transylvania owns almost all of Romania and the Ukrainian SSR owns Bessarabia, if I recall. And I don’t remember Transylvania even EXISTING in the current patch, so I’m very curious to see what the devs are working on ;)
 
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blahmaster6k

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I am with you on this one - Brazil has to be better represented (but, just like you, I am clearly biased) and the return of country packs really gives me hope that something could come soon.

Regarding ideologies, if I recall, they have already stated that “Non-Aligned” will have to be split, in order to have a proper Monarchist ideology. Right now, it really doesn’t make sense, as if you restore the Kaiser you get a +10 opinion buff with the ANARCHISTS. I mean, it is really nonsensical.

Also, I hope that, when they work on Brazil, they already have a proper Monarchist ideology. Getúlio Vargas becoming an integralist just because Portugal is boosting monarchism makes absolutely no sense, and having “monarchist” as a separate thing would easily fix that.
You know, I find that a bit... odd. Don’t get me wrong, Italy SHOULD be in an expansion, that’s for sure. But now that they are tackling Greece, and probably Turkey and Bulgaria, where would Italy fit?

Contrary to most people, I think Italy’s FT is by far worse than that of the Soviets and deserves more love. But I can’t see who would come with Italy in an expansion... Austria? Albania? Ethiopia? Switzerland? The first three are annexed rather soon and Switzerland... is Switzerland :) - they were 100% neutral the entire war!

In short, I just can’t see how they could add an “Italy themed” expansion after this pack is released. It would either be pretty much Italy alone, or Italy + 3 other random nations or so...

Anyhow, it’s just speculation, at this point. We’ll have to wait and see
When I noticed this, I couldn’t believe I hadn’t seen anyone talk about this here. Finally someone comments about it! That screenshot as a whole is very interesting. Transylvania owns almost all of Romania and the Ukrainian SSR owns Bessarabia, if I recall. And I don’t remember Transylvania even EXISTING in the current patch, so I’m very curious to see what the devs are working on ;)
You know you can use multi-quote instead of posting 3 consecutive times in the same thread, right?