HOI4 Dev Diary - Fuel

[Denkt]

Podcat mentioned a mod on the workshop which adds this, sadly no achievments which is one reason why it should be part of main-game, but then, is it a priority of development right now? Either way, here's podcats response.

Maybe it is time to add achivement modding for mods

 

[George Parr]

Will this neat addition make you give Bessarabia the strategical significance it had in WW2?
The Soviet Union seized it because of the Oil Fields there, those were vital for them, as well as for Germany. That's why Hitler was so keen in retaking it as fast as possible.
Sadly right now Bessarabia holds no Oil as ressource.

Maybe considering giving it a nice big Oil-boost to make it really an important decision to secure it as either sides of the war ?

I've never heard of any oilfields of importance in Bessarabia during that period. The Soviet Union seized it because it used to be part of the old Empire and because it gave access to the Danube, not because of oil, which they had plenty of in other areas. The main oilfields of Romania were near Ploesti, which remained part of Romania and was the main source used by Germany. As far as I know, by 1927 2/3 of the oil wells were in the Prahova district (= around Ploesti), with additional wells in the districts of Dambovita and Buzau, which are nearby. The closest oilfields to Bessarabia were near Bacau, which was still over 50km away from the "border" to Bessarabia.

If Bessarabia held any noticeable oil-reserves, Hitler would have cared more about the territory falling to the Soviets under their treaty.

 

[Metalmonni]

At a guess, it's one of three things, amphibious invasion vehicles, armoured cars, or branching off into tanks designed specifically to be used by airborne divisions. Something like LSTs seems most likely to me, given the theme of the DLC.

Well, I think I figured it out.

There is only ONE thing I really want to see in that branch!

THE GERMAN KUGELPANZER!

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelpanzer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelpanzer

 

[halvorni]

How many real WW2 countries were limited in the forces they could field or had to disband divisions based on by how much food they could produce?

None as far as I am aware. ( Maybe nations like India and China? I don't know ).

I think general supply covers food as well, so a new category shouldn't be needed.
Ammo, on the other hand, especially for artillery, is a huge logistics challenge, that should be a special category.

 

[Alex_brunius]

I think general supply covers food as well, so a new category shouldn't be needed.
Ammo, on the other hand, especially for artillery, is a huge logistics challenge, that should be a special category.

Having alot of artillery already is a logistical challenge since it needs over 3 times as much supply as infantry does.

And couldn't the cost be added without needing a new special category as well? For example like previous HoI games required you to spend Industry points to build supply?

That way Artillery which requires more supply, would also require more industry to maintain. If anything why not allow a bit of stockpiling of supply ( It worked fine in HoI2 and HoI3 ).

 

[halvorni]

You may be right.

Or we could go all the way and follow NATO:

Classes of Supply
NATO classes of supply are established in the five-class system of identification as follows:
Class I
Items of subsistence, e.g. food and forage, which are consumed by personnel or animals at an approximately uniform rate, irrespective of local changes in combat or terrain conditions.
Class II
Supplies for which allowances are established by tables of organization and equipment, e.g. clothing, weapons, tools, spare parts, vehicles.
Class III
Petroleum, oil and lubricants (POL) for all purposes, except for operating aircraft or for use in weapons such as flamethrowers, e.g. gasoline, fuel oil, greases, coal and coke.
(Class IIIa - aviation fuel and lubricants)
Class IV
Supplies for which initial issue allowances are not prescribed by approved issue tables. Normally includes fortification and construction materials, as well as additional quantities of items identical to those authorized for initial issue (Class II) such as additional vehicles.
Class V
Ammunition, explosives and chemical agents of all types.

 

[puppet on a string]

@podcat

not sure what the new unit on the light tank tree is, but please don't add armored cars as a buildable unit type, they make no sense at division level; if you want them in they should be either abstracted as recon (as it is now) or a separate support unit type, but it's pointless having both armored cars and light tanks

how many armored car divisions were there in WW2?

of course, it might be something else entirely

 

[Denkt]

Armored cars could be used to give extra recon over what you can currently get with the recon Company.

Currently you have very Little Control over the recon value, in fact I don't even know how it works other than a recon advantage is Worth the same as 5 skill levels. But I can not say if two divisions in combat add togther their recon values or not.

 

[kaguravitro]

if you want to try that kind of thing there is a mod called the Resource War on the workshop that adds food and such.

Yes, the mods that add rations and ammo (i dont like so much the ammo for all units, its supposs that supply cover ammo well becose you dont destroy the equipment prod.lines you are using mybe art and tanks could use ammo separate but is dicutible). The problem with all fuel is that works different that a simple equiment.
The equipment lack affect str, a unit with no rations is weak but a unit with out fuel will have a negative modiffer. Is rational that rations/ammo is left for mods, they need a logitical supply common, different to fuel wich needs ai managment.

Coal or old generic energy could be added for me as a roof for production and systetic oil. Or at least make a tool to support this kind of conversions for modders if developers think is no a good achivment for vanilla game. some mod uses negative resourses for systetic plants, i think its no so bad but...

 

[halvorni]

Classes of Supply
NATO classes of supply are established in the five-class system of identification as follows:
Class I
Items of subsistence, e.g. food and forage, which are consumed by personnel or animals at an approximately uniform rate, irrespective of local changes in combat or terrain conditions.
Class II
Supplies for which allowances are established by tables of organization and equipment, e.g. clothing, weapons, tools, spare parts, vehicles.
Class III
Petroleum, oil and lubricants (POL) for all purposes, except for operating aircraft or for use in weapons such as flamethrowers, e.g. gasoline, fuel oil, greases, coal and coke.
(Class IIIa - aviation fuel and lubricants)
Class IV
Supplies for which initial issue allowances are not prescribed by approved issue tables. Normally includes fortification and construction materials, as well as additional quantities of items identical to those authorized for initial issue (Class II) such as additional vehicles.
Class V
Ammunition, explosives and chemical agents of all types.

To elaborate on this:

Classes II and IV are just equipment and stuff that are adequately modelled by infantry and support equipment today, so we need not worry about those. If you don't produce enough your divisions will fight less effectively.

Class I (rations) is just dependent on the number of people in you army, it doesn't matter what they do, and whether they're infantry or artillery. Too little should hamper combat effectiveness and ultimately make you start losing soldiers.

Class IV (fuel) is expended by moving and maneuvering, and without it you'll become static.

Class V (ammo) is expended by fighting. Most by artillery and bombers, second most by tanks, third most by infantry. Without it you lose.

 

[puppet on a string]

specialist tanks - i.e. amphibious - is fine, and would make sense

 

[jonbaszk]

Maybe the economy could use fuel? To power civilian trucks/cars. For minors who have 0 oil, they could deal with a small debuff.

 

[Fulmen]

I've never heard of any oilfields of importance in Bessarabia during that period. The Soviet Union seized it because it used to be part of the old Empire and because it gave access to the Danube, not because of oil, which they had plenty of in other areas. The main oilfields of Romania were near Ploesti, which remained part of Romania and was the main source used by Germany. As far as I know, by 1927 2/3 of the oil wells were in the Prahova district (= around Ploesti), with additional wells in the districts of Dambovita and Buzau, which are nearby. The closest oilfields to Bessarabia were near Bacau, which was still over 50km away from the "border" to Bessarabia.

If Bessarabia held any noticeable oil-reserves, Hitler would have cared more about the territory falling to the Soviets under their treaty.

The Russians also took Northern Bucovina, which was never a part of the Russian Empire, nor in the Russian sphere in the secret clause of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

This rang some alarm bells in Berlin, as it proved Russia could potentially threaten Germany's primary source of oil before Germany was ready to confront Russia. Indeed later in private talks with the Finnish leadership in June 1942, Hitler admitted that he was wary of Russia seizing the Ploesti oil fields in 1940, when Germany was still unprepared for a war in the East.

Btw this was actually the second time the Russians violated the M-R Pact. The first was with the invasion of Poland: Russia was supposed to attack at the same time as Germany, but decided to wait until the 17th of September to see how the invasion progressed, before joining in.

 

[Riekopo]

I hope they add motorized (truck pulled) artillery as a variant and it uses some fuel.

This is a great step forward for the game. Slowly the missing features and mechanics and complexity are being added back in. I just hope this DLC doesn't take forever to release.

 

[myzael]

Btw this was actually the second time the Russians violated the M-R Pact. The first was with the invasion of Poland: Russia was supposed to attack at the same time as Germany, but decided to wait until the 17th of September to see how the invasion progressed, before joining in.

And the resulting border was not the same as was agreed in the original pact.

 

[Vohen]

The argument is that the owner would have just destroyed or moved it if it got too close to the front, so it makes more sense to me to have the capture on capitulate like other stuff

How about using the equipment capture introduced last patch, will we be able to capture enemy fuel after combat?

 

[Denkt]

How about using the equipment capture introduced last patch, will we be able to capture enemy fuel after combat?

Fuel is not an Equipment so it probably wont be captured but it would be kind of nice if you could capture it during combat.

 

[Vohen]

Fuel is not an Equipment so it probably wont be captured but it would be kind of nice if you could capture it during combat.

Indeed, that's why I'm asking, it'd make very much sense to use that mechanic in this way.

 

[kaguravitro]

Maybe the economy could use fuel? To power civilian trucks/cars. For minors who have 0 oil, they could deal with a small debuff.

the economy of the countrie goes behind scene in HOI, you only see the efects on the state. In long termn mod market economy should autogenerate IC with the time dislike planned econmies.

I was thinking a lot in resourses and in my perpective the resourses should be trimmed down by -% production based in thr level of industralization, similar to the spirits presented in 8 years of resistences (wich balances very well the game), do decrecing the extraction of resourses when you go more industralizated becose the country economy needs this materials (dont going so deep in the ghost economy we dont see). So if you get more and more IC (without invations) country state should need to import resourses for military industry. the countries as british protectorades and colonies of iron courtain colonies concept (british malasia mainly) should have some special treat

 

[kaguravitro]

Fuel is not an Equipment so it probably wont be captured but it would be kind of nice if you could capture it during combat.

and thanks god its no a equipment becose will not tide down the str.