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Hi everyone and welcome back to regular weekly dev diaries (if you don't count the april fools one last week). I know you are all super excited to hear what we have been up to since Battle for the Bosporus. The answers to that are going to take a few dev diaries to cover, so I figured I would start with a timeline for you:
  • We recently released 1.10.4 to fix various multiplayer exploits going on, but seems an important case was not detected at the time so we are working on a 1.10.5 to address that soon.
  • Pdxcon is coming up in May so expect to hear some more details there.
  • The yearly anniversary is coming in June so expect some cool stuff and a patch.
  • We are however spending most of our time on the 1.11 Barbarossa update as well as the unannounced expansion that will be released together with it. That's what we will spend most of our diaries on, as well as today!

‘Barbarossa’ and the unannounced DLC will focus on the Eastern Front and the core of Hearts of Iron, which is warfare - particularly land warfare. Historically the Eastern Front was without doubt the most important front for World War II. It was the largest confrontation in history and
is where Hitler’s expansion was first stopped and pushed back signaling the eventual doom of the axis powers. There are several areas we want to improve here. Weather does not feel impactful enough, while historically it had a massive impact. Logistics currently doesn’t have much player interaction and is mostly something you have to deal with only when problems appear, and finally the combat and division meta has been stable (with an emphasis on large divisions) for a long time - something we hope we can shake up. As you can imagine, these are all things that affect the game on a deeper level and take a lot of work to get right.

Today, I’ll give you guys a bit of an overview on the supply aspect, but fair warning: it’s early days and stuff may still change here before we’re done. I’ll probably spend 3+ diaries on supply over the course of the development to cover everything, but I figured it would be nice to hear about the overarching ideas.

The old system worked by having discrete supply areas pathing back to the players capital and keeping track of the bottlenecks. To simplify a bit ;) - those bottlenecks then decided how many units could fit into areas near the front without penalties. The areas themselves were unintuitive to players and required you to check multiple mapmodes to see if you stepped over an edge etc. I do like bottleneck systems though, because feedback is usually immediate, but it suffered from not having much scaling cost as distances increased, so it was hard to use it to limit snowballing. As I mentioned it was also a system you didn't care too much about until you had problems, while historically, logistics was a vital part of planning a campaign. This led to combining the issue with another gripe of ours - that the way fronts moved in WW2 often followed important railroads, but don't really in HOI4. We came to the conclusion that we should try and make a system focused on railways and with a truck based component as a way to get more out of it when away from the rails.

1617799554638.png


In our new system, supply flows from the capital (the total amount available depends on your total industrial base) through railways, where the level of the railway acts as a bottleneck. To transport more, you need a higher level railway (or a bigger port if it goes over water) so the railways are the current bottlenecks in a way. Depending on how much supply is transported you need a certain amount of trains for the rails to perform. Trains are a new equipment type that we will dig into in a future diary (well actually, several types ;P)

An important part of railways is that they are capturable, so as you push into enemy territory you will want to make sure to hold vital railways and capture railway hubs to supply your troops. There is a conversion time here to model the fact that there was usually some repair or re-gauging that needed to happen for attackers.

1617798271066.png

1617799689604.png

Mapmodes are still quite WIP ;)

Rivers also had a huge importance on the eastern front for transport and supply so they will work essentially like basic railroads now, where you need to control both sides of their banks to use them to ship supplies around.

1617798407335.png


Supply is drawn from what we call Supply Hubs now, which are either cities, naval bases, or manually constructed stations along the rails, which have to be linked into the network. Air supply works a bit differently but we will talk about this in the future along with some other supply additions...

The flow of supply from a Hub to a division depends on the terrain/weather etc, and ideally you want to have available trucks here (which is to say, motorized equipment) to increase the amount of supply you get as well as range. Cost of trucks and trains and losses to attrition and bad weather will be a limiting factor on your logistics.

1617798787102.png


Overall, this creates a system where it's strategically sound to fight over railways, prepare for large offensives, to try and bleed each other's logistics capability and to force care when advancing in bad terrain and weather. The result is a much more fun, historical and immersive Eastern Front as well as adding a new layer of invasion planning in the rest of the world.

See you all next week for the next diary!
 
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So a completely different game then?
im reading alot of overhaul suggestions, so im guessing u dont really like the game then?

I support tweaks and improvements but adding too much micromanagement mechanics just for the sake of micromanagement isnt what the game is meant to be.
If it was they would have made the game that way from the start.

A list of games that have alot of mechanics for you:
Stellaris
Cities: Skyline
Rimworld
Tropico
Frostpunk
Anno 2070
 
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Literall
So a completely different game then?
No, I actually like the game enough to suffer some of the weird political/diplomacy stuff.

I'm literally proposing that the engineer battalion be available as a division option instead of just available as a support company.

Similar to AA, AT, Rocket/Artillery & now recon units.

You could easily implement this with Ai control as default, akin to how they pulled MP suppression into it's own background mechanic.

I'm not sure how having ENG battalions as an option in Division design would be a completely different game, when it literally would tie into and improve MANY different aspects of the current game with the forthcoming supply mechanics.
 
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Literall

No, I actually like the game enough to suffer some of the weird political/diplomacy stuff.

I'm literally proposing that the engineer battalion be available as a division option instead of just available as a support company.

Similar to AA, AT, Rocket/Artillery & now recon units.

You could easily implement this with Ai control as default, akin to how they pulled MP suppression into it's own background mechanic.

I'm not sure how having ENG battalions as an option in Division design would be a completely different game, when it literally would tie into and improve MANY different aspects of the current game with the forthcoming supply mechanics.

As i read your previous post i see that u are suggesting engineer companies to be a sort of construction engineer that can
construct and or buff construction instead of how factories are contructed now.
Thats a little bit more than just an engineer battalion.
It leans more to a base building game where u use engineers to construct.

Thats how im reading it.
 
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Here is mybe an idea that could give engineers a more defining role.

How about for Forts(Coastal&land), naval base, Radar, Anti-Air, And Future Supply Hubs,
you need to assign engineer support companies for it to work.

The equipment requiment should lower a bit or mybe stay the same,
and u can still use them in your divisions as support companies.

U can than move the Engineers between any so that you wont have to make 1000000 of them but u do need them to make sure supply hubs and the other stuff works.

For instance when u fight Britain as germany u can move the engineers to hubs, anti-air etc to france, and then when u are going for operation barbarossa u can just move your engineers to the eastern front so the hubs etc work on that side.
(or u can just make more. so mybe higher price for engineer so that u need to move them instead of just spamming them)



The below building i left out because i think they are their own entity and less battlefield active. only Rocket Site i can see needing Engineer companies.

Rocket site
Airbase
infrastructure
Nuclear Reactor
Fuel Silo
Refinery



let me know what u guys think.
 
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Here is mybe an idea that could give engineers a more defining role.

How about for Forts(Coastal&land), naval base, Radar, Anti-Air, And Future Supply Hubs,
you need to assign engineer support companies for it to work.

The equipment requiment should lower a bit or mybe stay the same,
and u can still use them in your divisions as support companies.

U can than move the Engineers between any so that you wont have to make 1000000 of them but u do need them to make sure supply hubs and the other stuff works.

For instance when u fight Britain as germany u can move the engineers to hubs, anti-air etc to france, and then when u are going for operation barbarossa u can just move your engineers to the eastern front so the hubs etc work on that side.
(or u can just make more. so mybe higher price for engineer so that u need to move them instead of just spamming them)



The below building i left out because i think they are their own entity and less battlefield active. only Rocket Site i can see needing Engineer companies.

Rocket site
Airbase
infrastructure
Nuclear Reactor
Fuel Silo
Refinery



let me know what u guys think.
this is absolutely what I had in mind. this would be a million times better than the current factory spamming approach.

I think anything built in the Queue as a building slot currently should be buffed by having fully entrenched ENG battalions in that province and/or state.

i.e.

say you've got 8 land forts in the queue for one state. Having a single Division setup anywhere in that state can enable the construction and do them one by one automatically over a period of time dictated by supply levels and resources etc. OR have them be built 8 times faster (assuming enough supply just mentioned) by having ENG divisions stationed in EACH of those 8 provinces.

This could be gated from spamming by making it take awhile to train up the divisions, equipment attrition, supply levels, resource availability (steel etc.), and the straight up risk/reward of having that many divisions in that state versus anywhere else they might be needed.

The GOLD dream would be to have engineer division in a port province where an old BB or cruiser is docked in reserve to pull out the big guns and rail transport to another coastal province for a Coastal defense gun.
 
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Will logistic system affect garrison ?
I can imagine that if garrison is not well enough supplied, the resistance will rise.
It's what happened in Japan, the Japanese controlled the land next to infrastructures and communist partisans were very active in the countrys side. Local rebellion caused by lack of supply would be a way to slow down Japan in China and even Germany with rebellion in Poland bcause of spies sabotage of infrastructure

Edit : spelling
 
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Oh that will get interesting in attacking and defending the Trans Siberian Railway.
 
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I know this is probably asking too much, but PLEASE can we have some new division battalion type(s) to make these new supply constructions tie into the game in a more meaningful and engaging/fun way?

Specifically, just like there are multiple battalion types that also serve as support companies, I think it is time to give engineers their due in reverse :

Let us create Engineer Divisions (to have exp. gained from construction along with supply levels affecting efficiency) - which have a construction buff attribute and potentially other juicy supply/construction mechanics TBD!

This could improve upon the rather restrictive and arbitrarily linear handicap of needing to use 0>15 factories on any single province build.

For example, perhaps the construction options for building out various slots in any given province is nerfed to make it VERY in-efficient to try and build anything without having an engineer unit present in that province and/or state to work on it. There would be lots of interesting ways to balance it out, maybe a scaling S curve of efficiency within given state & supply zones?

Engineers on same provinces could also be useful in buffing up entrenchment/speed for reg. military units... repairing damaged buildings etc.

Would be cool to have different division designs depending on whether the ENG. divisions are being deployed near front lines, or as civil units to boost construction/defenses in home territories.

Being so powerful maybe there could be a hard cap based on a ratio like with Spec. Forces multipliers, or short of having a new production equipment for ENG/ you could do something simple just based on available factories/raw materials etc...

Finally let me please state the obvious that supply depots or hubs have LEVELS just like the other bases. For some you could consider it heavy micro that ISNT fun, but guaranteed there are loads of us who would enjoy getting into the weeds of mechanics like this on pause, or slow playing in between the lulls of campaign action.

please, please, pretty please with cherries on top! o_O
I suppose this is what's already abstracted by having civilian factories produce things like land forts. Having on-map units for things like rail construction is immersive and all, at least in War in the East, but for HoI4 I just predict micro-management issues and problems for the AI, to be honest.

They could be automated like (most of) the ones in WITE, of course, with a limit to how many you can have at once, but... then you're basically just back to exactly the same system as civilian factories, when you think about it.
 
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I believe the DD said there will be something released in June due to the anniversary of HoI4, but I don't think he was referring to the big patch or DLC itself.
That's June 6th but June 22nd is the anniversary of operation barberossa so that would be a good day to release the update
 
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epic, this will make the game more realistic. Can't wait to be Germany and just cut the USSRs supply route every time I can lol
 
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I suppose this is what's already abstracted by having civilian factories produce things like land forts. Having on-map units for things like rail construction is immersive and all, at least in War in the East, but for HoI4 I just predict micro-management issues and problems for the AI, to be honest.

They could be automated like (most of) the ones in WITE, of course, with a limit to how many you can have at once, but... then you're basically just back to exactly the same system as civilian factories, when you think about it.
respectfully, i disagree. it is annoying AF and not fun to have to ramp up civ factories to have the pleasure of 15 of them focusing on single constructions... My recommendation is that the pool of construction material be in the background as a ratio of supply levels, excess natural resources and ideally a generic construction equipment that can be built up and stockpiled as an opportunity cost against raw materials towards building the standard equipment.

I.e. lets say you are a lower tech/industrial minor power like china or brazil, maybe you don't have access to all the steel and concrete to do large land forts and lots of infrastructure to pipeline your constructions, but you could use your manpower to create large engineer corps to do a lot more lower-intensity (level) forts representing simple earth works, trenches and log/sandbag defenses etc.

The basic Ai could run in the background if you don't want to manage it and basically have it automatically work AS-IS, or you could take the reigns and really finesse your constructions/defenses and bases to squeeze the most out of asymetric strategic situations.

IRL, Japan had a CRAZY amount of land forts and layers of defenses which in combination with terrain and weather would have made a land invasion by the Allies extremely costly.

ENG battalion options could really make for some interesting, varied and FUN gameplay with this new supply system IMHO.
 
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respectfully, i disagree. it is annoying AF and not fun to have to ramp up civ factories to have the pleasure of 15 of them focusing on single constructions... My recommendation is that the pool of construction material be in the background as a ratio of supply levels, excess natural resources and ideally a generic construction equipment that can be built up and stockpiled as an opportunity cost against raw materials towards building the standard equipment.

I.e. lets say you are a lower tech/industrial minor power like china or brazil, maybe you don't have access to all the steel and concrete to do large land forts and lots of infrastructure to pipeline your constructions, but you could use your manpower to create large engineer corps to do a lot more lower-intensity (level) forts representing simple earth works, trenches and log/sandbag defenses etc.

The basic Ai could run in the background if you don't want to manage it and basically have it automatically work AS-IS, or you could take the reigns and really finesse your constructions/defenses and bases to squeeze the most out of asymetric strategic situations.

IRL, Japan had a CRAZY amount of land forts and layers of defenses which in combination with terrain and weather would have made a land invasion by the Allies extremely costly.

ENG battalion options could really make for some interesting, varied and FUN gameplay with this new supply system IMHO.

But isn't this already covered by units with ENG being able to entrench - to higher levels with better technology?
 
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You know the hype is real when you can't wait for tomorrow. Less than 24 hours for a new Dev Diary guys!
 
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Can we take over Stalingrad to prevent the Russians from transporting Baku oil along the Volga River?
 
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If weather is becoming a bigger factor are we going to get some sort of weather prediction map ?
It would allow people to be more strategic on when to attack and why not if they have this info.
 
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If weather is becoming a bigger factor are we going to get some sort of weather prediction map ?
It would allow people to be more strategic on when to attack and why not if they have this info.
You could maybe have some bonuses if you research radar tech
 
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  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities in Motion
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
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  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
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  • Battle for Bosporus
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
You know the hype is real when you can't wait for tomorrow. Less than 24 hours for a new Dev Diary guys!
My first reaction was "wait, are we getting two dev diaries in a week", because I could have sworn the last one was a couple days ago. I hadn't realized it's been a week.
Time flies when you're in covid-induced unemployment.
 
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