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HOI4 Dev Diary - Bag of Tricks : the Sequel

Greetings all!

Today’s dev diary contains the details of a few smaller features coming to the table in No Step Back. In addition, I’ll get ahead of the curve here and point out that there will be no diary next week - we’ll be back the week after with more to see.

Scorched Earth

One of the enduring tactical practices of the Soviet defense during the German invasion, was the use of scorched earth. In No Step Back, you’ll be able to spend Command Power on ordering the strategic disabling of railways in the event of a tactical retreat.

0.png

(All visuals WIP!)

Enacted on a state level, every railway present receives full damage, and is immediately flagged, making sure that your eager workers do not attempt repairs.

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The pending repairs will show up differently in your construction queue, and won’t be worked on. Rather than re-enable these all manually, you can toggle the state of Scorched Earth off on a state, in the same way it was enabled. All affected railways will begin repairing at once.

Scorched Earth is a pretty simple mechanic here, but has potentially devastating effects on invaders. In addition to the rail conversion time that exists on captured railway, damaged rail must now be repaired in order to continue supply flow onwards. While we considered extending some effects to factories, we determined that this was likely to affect balance far more than we wanted.

Preferred Tactics

We touched on this feature briefly during a previous diary, however, due to some good feedback from the community and from inside the team, we’ve made some alterations to how it works.

Where previously, you set a preferred tactic on a national level, giving a positive chance modifier for that tactic to be chosen in combat, your generals and field marshals will now also possess the ability to earn a favored combat tactic.

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At level 5, you’ll be prompted to choose a preferred tactic for your generals. This represents their doctrinal school of war - a choice that affects all units under their command.

Note here, that we are not removing the national preferred tactic, and that the additive weight will compound from national -> field marshal -> general. To pre-empt the question, you can of course stack all 3 as the same tactic, although this drastically reduces your flexibility, and potentially makes it very easy to be countered. The overall additions granted by preferred tactics, have of course been reduced somewhat to account for this.

We wanted to avoid a rock-paper-scissors choice here, and in order to further emulate the core, doctrinal nature of a general’s fighting style, we have chosen to make this choice permanent for characters.

Strategic Redeployment

As we hinted at, strategic redeployment will now make use of railways in order to simulate more realistic army relocation. This applies a different weighting to the regular pathfinder, resulting in choices that largely look sensible where routes of a similar weight are encountered.

4.png

Here, we take a train followed by a scenic bus-tour in order to avoid the long connection.

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Sometimes it becomes difficult to predict what will be considered 'sensible' in every scenario - there will be edge cases where pretty looking behaviour and logical behaviour do not overlap.

That’s all we have for today’s diary - just a final reminder that next week there will not be a dev diary - tune back in on the 29th!

As usual, I’ll be around to answer questions in the thread below!

/Arheo
 
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Will the strat deployment pathfinder be fixed so it goes around states with high resistance that have the disabled_strat_deployment = 1 modifier? Currently there are 0 indications, and the units just change to normal movement when it reaches such a state with no effort to go around it
 
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While on the topic of “quality of life”, one area I wish you would reconsider, is the way newly constructed ships are handled, especially in light of all the new features you are adding which adds to the burden of just managing things, rather than playing and enjoying the game. It would be nice if all newly constructed ships automatically replaced obsolete ships as newly constructed ground and air equipment does. Granted this is not entirely realistic, because crews would not be familiar with the new ship, but the same argument could be made for ground and air units as they receive newer models. Besides, HOI4 is a WW2 sandbox game, not a realistic simulation; you only need enough “realism” to dispel unbelief. In fact, have modern battleship going directly into the “reserve fleet”, while pre-dreadnaughts are still the “pride of the navy” actually “feels” unrealistic, although my mind understands why you are doing it for “realistic” reasons. It some point this game is going to require so much micromanagement it will no longer be fun to play.
 
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Greetings all!

Today’s dev diary contains the details of a few smaller features coming to the table in No Step Back. In addition, I’ll get ahead of the curve here and point out that there will be no diary next week - we’ll be back the week after with more to see.

Scorched Earth

One of the enduring tactical practices of the Soviet defense during the German invasion, was the use of scorched earth. In No Step Back, you’ll be able to spend Command Power on ordering the strategic disabling of railways in the event of a tactical retreat.

View attachment 756706
(All visuals WIP!)

Enacted on a state level, every railway present receives full damage, and is immediately flagged, making sure that your eager workers do not attempt repairs.

View attachment 756707

The pending repairs will show up differently in your construction queue, and won’t be worked on. Rather than re-enable these all manually, you can toggle the state of Scorched Earth off on a state, in the same way it was enabled. All affected railways will begin repairing at once.

Scorched Earth is a pretty simple mechanic here, but has potentially devastating effects on invaders. In addition to the rail conversion time that exists on captured railway, damaged rail must now be repaired in order to continue supply flow onwards. While we considered extending some effects to factories, we determined that this was likely to affect balance far more than we wanted.

Preferred Tactics

We touched on this feature briefly during a previous diary, however, due to some good feedback from the community and from inside the team, we’ve made some alterations to how it works.

Where previously, you set a preferred tactic on a national level, giving a positive chance modifier for that tactic to be chosen in combat, your generals and field marshals will now also possess the ability to earn a favored combat tactic.

View attachment 756708

At level 5, you’ll be prompted to choose a preferred tactic for your generals. This represents their doctrinal school of war - a choice that affects all units under their command.

Note here, that we are not removing the national preferred tactic, and that the additive weight will compound from national -> field marshal -> general. To pre-empt the question, you can of course stack all 3 as the same tactic, although this drastically reduces your flexibility, and potentially makes it very easy to be countered. The overall additions granted by preferred tactics, have of course been reduced somewhat to account for this.

We wanted to avoid a rock-paper-scissors choice here, and in order to further emulate the core, doctrinal nature of a general’s fighting style, we have chosen to make this choice permanent for characters.

Strategic Redeployment

As we hinted at, strategic redeployment will now make use of railways in order to simulate more realistic army relocation. This applies a different weighting to the regular pathfinder, resulting in choices that largely look sensible where routes of a similar weight are encountered.

View attachment 756709
Here, we take a train followed by a scenic bus-tour in order to avoid the long connection.

View attachment 756710

Sometimes it becomes difficult to predict what will be considered 'sensible' in every scenario - there will be edge cases where pretty looking behaviour and logical behaviour do not overlap.

That’s all we have for today’s diary - just a final reminder that next week there will not be a dev diary - tune back in on the 29th!

As usual, I’ll be around to answer questions in the thread below!

/Arheo
Looks great, but a few questions:

Shouldn't scorched earth activation be only possible with troops in the state?
That'd make at least have a risk-reward relation where you'd need to balance the benefit from hampering enemy supply with your own troops retreating and potentially being encircled.
As it is it looks like I can draw a fallback line in fortified positions along the Stalin line, sabotage railways and then just sit waiting while my enemy eats attrition in bulk, really powerful stuff.

How eager is the AI to use this?
I'd imagine China and the Soviets would be, of course, but as other poster put it in another thread, hopefully Germany won't be blowing the Rhine up when fighting France.

How good will the AI be at perceiving that we've stacked the same tactic and reacting to it?
 
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This may be planned for a later modding diary, so apologies if that’s the case, but would it be right to assume that scorched earth will be triggerable by event, decision, or even focus?
 
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Nice bag of tricks.
But we always want to know more:
1. If you have implemented the switch/setting/whatever that prevents units from stopping moving due to "possible insufficient supply if we move into next province" - please show it.
2. Will it be possible for units to sabotage enemy railroads/supply depots? As in dropping a sacrificial paratrooper battallion in Kandalaksha to make destroy Murmansk railroad?
3. Will the railroad / supply depots be linked into Lend-Lease shipments? For example if Allies bomb out railroads in Brenner pass - will it hinder the German material help to Italy?
 
the following people should be available as generals for monarchist/fascist russia if they decide to remove communism Sergei Wojciechowski (since he was an officer in the Czechoslovak Army during the 1930s, he should also be available as a general for Czechoslovakia and austria-Hungary) Mikhail Diterikhs Anton Denikin (denikin would also be a good leader for the white russian provisional government, similar to how Mackensen leads the anti nazi forces if you go down the oppose hitler path) Vasily Flug Alexander Lukomsky Pavel Bermondt-Avalov (available if not chosen as king of Poland) Pyotr Krasnov (since he was the leader of the trainsbaikal cossack host, he'd have bonuses to division speed and cavalry attack and defence bonuses)
also maybe alternative candidates for Tsar? there were a few Romanovs other than Kiril still alive in the 1930s.
 
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Will we have a diary on the 29th that's long enough for it to be worth TWO dev diaries (to cover next week) or is it gonna be a diary we're never getting?

It'll be as long as a piece of string.

Wait. So workers will not repair railways during conversion? Sounds strange...

They will - but a converted railway is not dependent on construction queue or capacity, whereas repairs are.

Will the AI even be able to use Scorched Earth? That looks suspiciously like a player only feature :confused:

Yes. They err not to unless prompted atm, otherwise every war turns into a slog, but we have our eyes on it.
 
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...

Shouldn't scorched earth activation be only possible with troops in the state?
That'd make at least have a risk-reward relation where you'd need to balance the benefit from hampering enemy supply with your own troops retreating and potentially being encircled.
...
I would like this requirement, too. In AoD the infra-level ticks down (once Scorched Earth is activated) as long as a retreating unit has not left the province. Not sure if it stopped when the enemy entered the province. Instant and complete destruction of railways and/or infrastructure seems OP and unrealistic.
 
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I would like this requirement, too. In AoD the infra-level ticks down (once Scorched Earth is activated) as long as a retreating unit has not left the province. Not sure if it stopped when the enemy entered the province. Instant and complete destruction of railways and/or infrastructure seems OP and unrealistic.

This is a great point. While I am glad scorched earth finally made its way to HoI4, this is yet another feature on an increasingly long list where PDX re-invented the wheel, and AoD, from almost 12 years ago (!), still ends up doing it better. Do you also remember if the AI used scorched earth in AoD?

EDIT: I went and ran a test in AoD. Here's a comparison of the mechanic between AoD and what PDX has shown us about it in HoI4:

Scorched earth in AoD:

-Is conducted as damage inflicted over time by units retreating out of a province whilst they are still in the province. The speed of destruction being inflicted seems to be tied to how many units are conducting SE. Strength of said units is probably included in the calculations as well. Damage stops once said province is captured or said units are out of it.
-Damage is inflicted upon industry, infrastructure and resource production.

Scorched earth in HoI4:

-Damage is conducted instantaneously with mana, rather than units, on any state of the player's choice.
-Damage is inflicted only on railroads. Other infrastructure as well as factories and resource production are unaffected.
-Not used by the AI unless specifically scripted to do so.

I can't help but think of how overjoyed the Germans would have been if they could simply have put the Caucasus oil wells to use overnight after capture, rather than pouring likely several years into their repair after the Russians would have thoroughly thrashed them. Of course, in reality they never captured most of them, even for a short while.

 
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We wanted to avoid a rock-paper-scissors choice here, and in order to further emulate the core, doctrinal nature of a general’s fighting style, we have chosen to make this choice permanent for characters.
While it's true that in nature generals would hardly change their strategy, often being portraited as stubborn individuals, it's also kinda true that not changing a losing fighting strategy isn't something you often see in warfare, as leaders tend (at least should) addapt their strategies to whatever variables they're facing.

I understand the core concept of this, but it may unnecessarily penalize bad choices in the long term.
 
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Maybe it would be interesting to add a ticked box somewhere which auto-scorches earth on frontline states if possible as long as the box is ticked.

It would help micro a lot, especially during barb.

I also think it would be better to unlock this button only if there are units in the tile

Will the strategic redeployment values be moddable ?

Also, VERY important question @Arheo :

This new addition to generals seems nice, but this DLC adds more and more importance to generals, which can only grind in combat, thus giving interest into fighting the wars as long as possible in MP. I know one objective of the dev team was to fix this aspect of the game, where you had to play "bad" to play good (long wars, attrional warfare, etc...)
What do you think about it ?

EDIT : I would like a way to make killing an opponent quickly (like Poland as Germany) the best solution, instead of the opposite.

- Maybe by making XP gain decrease over time, or by giving a large bonus to XP as soon as you kill an opponent based on initial relative strength which would decrease over time, so that you have incentive to finish the war quickly (If you earn 200 xp by killing Poland in less than a month instead of farming it for 1 year which would give you 100 xp maximum).

- Maybe Generals should be rewarded with large amounts of XP when you do an encirclement or when you destroy a division, so that encircling and destroying divisions grants to the general more XP than just farming for 1 year.

In last Paradox Community Tournament Finale, we grinded Japanese Generals up to lvl7 or 8 with pips up to 10, because we deliberatly decided NOT to kill CHina as long as possible. If we had killed it in 6 months like we could have done, we would have had a weaker army for the rest of the game...I find this state of the balance not very logical...
 
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Like some people already said, i'm concerned about scorched earth. It's very cheap and seems instant (you haven't clarified it yet), that will bring a lot of imbalances in soviet play.
I think:
  1. it should be gradual
  2. its cost should depend on the state's characteristics
  3. it can only be done if you are at war
  4. optionally (because the application of this may be difficult) its efficacy should depend on troops actually sitting on the state (with bonus to, lets says, divisions with engineer support)
  5. with point 1 and 2, i think damaging factories could again be a plausible option.
 
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While it's true that in nature generals would hardly change their strategy, often being portraited as stubborn individuals, it's also kinda true that not changing a losing fighting strategy isn't something you often see in warfare, as leaders tend (at least should) addapt their strategies to whatever variables they're facing.

I understand the core concept of this, but it may unnecessarily penalize bad choices in the long term.
You’re right, but I think they’re hoping to make players swap out generals more often, making this more of a gameplay than realism decision. Right now you can often just pick a few generals and prioritize them through the whole war, new assignments are just to fill gaps.
 
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Adding to the points others have made it here, scorched earth could also cost more than just command points. A bit of war support and/or stability maybe?
 
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