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HOI4 Dev Diary - Acclimatization and Special Forces

Hi everyone and welcome to another dev diary where we show off stuff as we work on Waking the Tiger. Today we are going to be talking about a feature I’ve been wanting for a long time - troop acclimatization.


Acclimatization
We have long wanted to simulate the problems associated with shifting troops to new fronts with more extreme weather they are not used to. We currently have two types: Cold Acclimatization and Heat Acclimatization. It is not possible to be acclimatized to both at the same time, so if you take troops from the desert and put them down in the Russian winter, they will need to “work off” their heat acclimatization first before they start getting accustomed to the cold. When a division is sufficiently acclimatized, it will change its look, as you can see below. On the left are troops in winter with no acclimatization and on the right is what they will look when acclimatized.
Screenshot_1.jpg

And an example from Africa:
hoi4_4.jpg


For most countries, we do this by switching the uniform on the 3D model to use more appropriate textures. In some cases, like where people only had tropic uniforms with short pants and the like, we replaced their uniforms to be more winter appropriate (suggestions by the art department to simply color their knees blue were sadly rejected). The new textures come with the DLC, but the core mechanic is free as part of 1.5 Cornflakes. You can see your acclimatization status as part of the unit list and its effects:
Screenshot_2.jpg



With full acclimatization you will reduce extreme weather penalties by about half. We will also be increasing the impact of harsh weather a bit to compensate for being able to avoid it now.

There are a few things that will help you gain acclimatization also. If your commander has the Adaptable trait or Winter Expert it will speed things up. There are also technologies that influence the acclimatization speed (more on that later).
upload_2017-12-6_14-41-16.png



Special forces
Up till now, we have had a bit of a balance issue with Special Forces (Marines, Mountaineers, Paratroopers). They were, pound for pound, better than regular infantry and many people simply replaced all their infantry with mountaineers.

To make sure special forces stay special, we added a restriction based on your whole army:
Screenshot_3.jpg


To ensure that you always know how many special forces you can field, the division designer and deployment will help you keep track:

Screenshot_4.jpg


Along with this change in how Special Forces work, we wanted to make them stand out a bit more. Six new infantry technologies have been added to improve these elite troops.

Special forces are trained and equipped for conditions that ordinary soldiers aren’t expected to excel in. The first tech will give them a boost to acclimatization speed. Afterwards, the tree splits. One option is to train your special forces harder, to improve their skills and their ability to fight for longer before having to be resupplied. The other option is to expand the special forces training programs to accept more recruits. Your special forces will be more numerous, but come with more drag and not quite as high speed. In the end though, they will still be elite forces and will be able to develop training to make them even more skilled in fighting in the harshest of conditions.

Screenshot_5.jpg


See you all next week when we return to take a look at the Chinese warlords.

Also, don’t miss out on World War Wednesday today at 16:00 CET as normal. Me and Daniel will continue our fight against communism (or the British fleet… we are still arguing about that) as Germany under the rule of the Kaiser.
 

GSP Jr

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But is this going to make the Eastern Front more realistic? It seems like that's where it's needed the most.

There should probably be some sort of industrial price to pay in order to winterise. Maybe we need production lines for winter and desert clothing (just these two to keep it simple) which then get added to division equipment as required, and "allow" winterisation to units in cold environments (and without such equipment, acclimatisation will simply cease; units which require acclimatisation will take equipment from those which no longer need them, or from the stockpile).

Fail to produce winter equipment (antifreeze, coats etc.), and your units don't acclimatise.
I like this idea, wonder if it could be implemented for release....
 

lokomoko

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Special Forces: How are the number of battalions allowed determined? Will the base be different per country or will everyone have a set % based on total troops?
Also, while I understand the need to stop the SF spam, from a design perspective, why go with a cap instead of a cost approach?
It says 5% of total battalions can be SF
 

fabius

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The whole idea of the research system is to make you prioritize and make choices.
Completely agree with this.

However, when you squeeze the research slots too much it paradoxically creates less choice.

eg
Let's say tech is balanced for majors to be able to get roughly everything that they did historically- then the real choices are which order, and whether to forsake something to tech rush something else

Very tight tech- there is no real choice because in most situations there are 'must haves' that make piking them over 'nice haves' a no brainer.

If tech was a little more generous. then playing as Germany I'd be more tempted to do some navy and also waste some production resources thinking I can rule the waves too. As it is so tight now, I can easily just ignore navy.
 

SlavicAmerican

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so if I was playing as Hungary and had 20 mountaineers, what would happen when I annex Czechoslovakia? Would I just lose any spec forces that Czech had? (If they went over the cap, of course.)
 

Bane5

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Completely agree with this.

However, when you squeeze the research slots too much it paradoxically creates less choice.

Right now, I think we have too little to research. It is possible in some cases to field modern tanks in 1942 or have fighters III in the same time frame. For high research slot nations, everything seems to come too early without enough tradeoff.
 

Conad1985

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Completely agree with this.

However, when you squeeze the research slots too much it paradoxically creates less choice.

eg
Let's say tech is balanced for majors to be able to get roughly everything that they did historically- then the real choices are which order, and whether to forsake something to tech rush something else

Very tight tech- there is no real choice because in most situations there are 'must haves' that make piking them over 'nice haves' a no brainer.

If tech was a little more generous. then playing as Germany I'd be more tempted to do some navy and also waste some production resources thinking I can rule the waves too. As it is so tight now, I can easily just ignore navy.
Completely agree with this.

However, when you squeeze the research slots too much it paradoxically creates less choice.

eg
Let's say tech is balanced for majors to be able to get roughly everything that they did historically- then the real choices are which order, and whether to forsake something to tech rush something else

Very tight tech- there is no real choice because in most situations there are 'must haves' that make piking them over 'nice haves' a no brainer.

If tech was a little more generous. then playing as Germany I'd be more tempted to do some navy and also waste some production resources thinking I can rule the waves too. As it is so tight now, I can easily just ignore navy.


Majors must be more powerful than minors.. but they must balance the possibility to enjoy for a minor player with the respect of keeping a minor power as a minor power... in this game, as per it was designed since now, NO country can waste reasearch time to reasearch something it's not really needed, as eg Navy for Germany...
 

Conad1985

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but moreover, WHY if the war was from 39 to 45, and developers say that the game can last until 49, WHY the national focuses cover only until around 41... :D


i mean.. ad example Germany in a standard MP game uses 20/25 focus (to be high) it means that the focus cover until half 40, after are only continous focuses (army drill, navy drill, air drill, construction repairs.. eccetera)
 

Rubidium

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Let's say this was done: A problem arises in that giving each nation a pre-assigned number or idea is fraught with inaccuracies and a bit artificial.

In your case I think it'd be easier to just dynamically assign "mountain tradition" based on the number or percentage of core mountain (lesser hills) provinces you own. "Marine tradition" would come from number of overseas coastal provinces and navy size. Land-locked Switzerland won't be making strong marines, but they could have strong mountaineers. Overseas empires like the U.K. and Japan would be excellent choices for fielding marines naturally.
Surely the easiest approach would just be to create national spirits that boost special forces numbers (either from the start or through foci).
 

Cody MacArthur Fett

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oh I probably should have explained that more. Its visible in one of the screenshots with the tooltip. Being in the area with those effects will see you gain acclimatization. If you are actively fighting it however goes much faster
Sounds like a great addition. I can definitely see the utility of garrisoning units to train in, for instance, Alaska to prepare them for winter war or Arizona for a desert war. It makes a lot of sense in terms of preparing for the future. I can even see custom maps made that are designed to specifically make use of the feature, with extreme weather areas being placed in nations to allow them the chance to train, as long as they can be protected.

Oh! Speaking of which, has that
Code:
replace_path
problem that keeps custom maps from being deployed on the Steam Workshop been fixed for the next patch, or is that something you guys want to save for the inevitable modding dev diary to talk about?
 

fabius

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Right now, I think we have too little to research. It is possible in some cases to field modern tanks in 1942 or have fighters III in the same time frame. For high research slot nations, everything seems to come too early without enough tradeoff.

Yeah, I think the research buffs some nations get through focus trees can be used to get war to far ahead. I wouldn't mind a stiffer ahead of time penalty, or F-Tree research buff not working when ahead of time.

Majors must be more powerful than minors.. but they must balance the possibility to enjoy for a minor player with the respect of keeping a minor power as a minor power... in this game, as per it was designed since now, NO country can waste reasearch time to reasearch something it's not really needed, as eg Navy for Germany...

Exactly, certain support company, planes, ships, navy doctrine, infantry tech never get used in most of my games because - it's no brainer to pick industry, tanks, fighter, etc over them.

Keep minors as they are for the 'fun' of playing the. But I can see room for giving majors another slot to play with other things like paras, and have choices to be about the more marginal techs- but combined with steep ahead of time penalties.
 

The_Meme_Man

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Acclimation model changes? I don't think I have ever seen Raj infantry NOT be in shorts in any photograph.
 

King-Salomon

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one point I was thinking right now... wouldn't it be much more realistic (and better playstyle wise) to give each "SF" an individuel cap? so a cap for mounteers, an other cap for marines and an other for paras... with NF / techs to rise them individuell - so you still would have to choose which you want to focus on AND could work with country-bonuses which would not add marines to Italien alpini "foci" etc...
 

JerkyJerry

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THis isnt a Feature you can choose not to use. It's simply there. Your dudes fight or are stationed in the desert and hot climate? They get accustomed to it. You redeploy them to Siberia? Well you will have to work with that malus.. or wait.
I agree with you 100%. I just question how many times will it be used? Will it do anything other than have me watching the calendar for "X" amount of time to pass before the troops get new jackets and boots?
Is it a nice feature? Sure, I suppose so. How often will I ever use it? How often will I ever notice it being in place?
Rarely if ever?
 

JerkyJerry

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ENG, FRA and ITA could also make use of this for fighting in North Africa.
France? Hmmm, yeah I suppose but really not so much.
England? After the desert then into Russia? Ok, maybe that might happen to 4 divisions or 5?
Italy? They are fighting in the desert, get called into Russia. Sure that could happen as long it is not spring, summer or fall in Russia. If it is then, does it really matter?
 

Kodi159

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Finally Special forces!! Im glad guys :rolleyes:
 

thinking_waffle

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I hope that all those things are moddable, they will definitively be at the core of future modded content for Nepal, especially if i can increase the adaptability and the number of mountaineers available.
 

billcorr

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Does training in Hot/Cold zone also speed things up?

Now we're talking.

Georgie Patton in the Mojave and Sonoran Deserts in 1942, preparing for the North Africa Campaign.

Let's hear from the man himself about training:

Yet at the outbreak of war, American troops sat woefully unprepared for battle, indeed even for surviving the harsh desert climates of North Africa. The army pushed for training in desert warfare and placed General George Patton Jr., a Southern California native, in charge of selecting a site and creating what would become the Desert Training Center (DTC).

"I want my men to take just a rough a beating as I can give them in as near the situation they will have in North Africa" -- General George Patton



01_dtc-n5-manevering-over-rought-desert-terrain-aug-1942-signal-corps-photo-us-army-photo.jpg

U.S. Army Photograph, 1942. | Courtesy of the General Patton Memorial Museum.

upload_2017-12-6_8-5-40.png

As summed up in an article in Yank,

"Somewhere in the California Desert, under a molten sun and in a country where the very earth feels like fire, American armored vehicles are training....It is this force that will someday leave death in its wake in the sandy places of Libya, or wherever it may be sent." -Bill Davidson, "Desert Warfare: America Trains a New Kind of Army," Yank, September 23, 1942

So. What do we have?
  • We have described above a new state-level building.
  • Pre-requisite: must control 2 contiguous desert provinces.
  • Assign a level 4+ officer to run the training facility
  • Costs 12,000 industrial points to build.
  • Units that train there have -10% attrition in desert provinces (or some similar bonuses)
 
Last edited:

DmUa

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For most countries, we do this by switching the uniform on the 3D model to use more appropriate textures. In some cases, like where people only had tropic uniforms with short pants and the like, we replaced their uniforms to be more winter appropriate (suggestions by the art department to simply color their knees blue were sadly rejected). The new textures come with the DLC, but the core mechanic is free as part of 1.5 Cornflakes. You can see your acclimatization status as part of the unit list and its effects:
- what about soviet trench coat wearing troops? Will they still wear trench coats in deserts? That would be super silly...
 

SlavicAmerican

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Now we're talking.

Georgie Patton in the Mojave and Sonoran Deserts in 1942, preparing for the North Africa Campaign.

Let's hear from the man himself about training:

Yet at the outbreak of war, American troops sat woefully unprepared for battle, indeed even for surviving the harsh desert climates of North Africa. The army pushed for training in desert warfare and placed General George Patton Jr., a Southern California native, in charge of selecting a site and creating what would become the Desert Training Center (DTC).

"I want my men to take just a rough a beating as I can give them in as near the situation they will have in North Africa" -- General George Patton



01_dtc-n5-manevering-over-rought-desert-terrain-aug-1942-signal-corps-photo-us-army-photo.jpg

U.S. Army Photograph, 1942. | Courtesy of the General Patton Memorial Museum.


As summed up in an article in Yank,

"Somewhere in the California Desert, under a molten sun and in a country where the very earth feels like fire, American armored vehicles are training....It is this force that will someday leave death in its wake in the sandy places of Libya, or wherever it may be sent." -Bill Davidson, "Desert Warfare: America Trains a New Kind of Army," Yank, September 23, 1942


I smell a focus a brewin’ ;)