HOI4 Dev Diary - Acclimatization and Special Forces

[pete_ts]

This is all good and well, I like it, but will special forces be able to do any special forces stuff, like raising hell behind enemy lines i.e. blow up railroads, train partisans, help stage coups etc? Or will the continue to be front line troops with slightly better stats?

 

[joeenochs]

@Sourlol
I agree, with the facts, but what does follow from there? If Hitler was deciding to shift some additional troops from Africa to Russia in 42, then these troops would ideally profit from the experience the high command has made during the first winter, wouldn´t they? There is also some learning for the individual soldier, but it is much more complex then that.

 

[Farquarsen]

Russian winter offensives made the difference in the east, especially the first offensive in late 41 to early 42. Cost Germany the war because of the lack of winter ready supplies. Overconfidence caused a lot of the lack of proper planning but still the facts are the Siberian Russians were acclimated and the Germans weren't. I hope this acclimation mechanic will reflect this reality. Of course the Russians also were successful the next winter as well when in game terms the germans will be acclimated and so the game may not reflect reality with this new mechanic. Perhaps a buff for certain countries that face harsh winters such as USSR, China, Mongolia, ManChuko would be appropriate as well. I like the acclimation mechanic, I think Germany gets too much of a buff when in Russia from December to April or Russia does not get enough buff for the same time frame; works out to the same.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

To your terrain vs climate point, i think this needs to be expanded to Jungle. Jungle warfare is its own beast and fighting in the jungle is expressly difficult--especially as (generally speaking) imperialist forces (USA, UK, Jap...none of these peoples have inter generational predispositions to resistance to Jungle Diseases...as the defending who has lived there his entire life may).

Agree that Jungle causes higher attrition losses for the unprepared. But unlike hot and cold, is acclimation really possible for the jungle? Medical advances were required to be able to treat certain jungle diseases. But even then, attrition losses were still higher than normal.

I did not. 2 mountain divisions, the 10th and the 11th.

I could be mistaken, but the US only had the 10th Mountain division. The 11th wasn't a real division. And Rangers shouldn't have been part of the special forces count. They are below the scale of what the division style units are supposed to represent here.

 

[Thunderfire57]

What would be nice would be the ability to train special forces to a higher level than regulars maybe at an increased rate of attrition

 

[Russian Bias lmao]

Cost Germany the war because of the lack of winter ready supplies.

hhahahahahhahahahahaahahhaah

no

 

[indignanthedgehog]

To your terrain vs climate point, i think this needs to be expanded to Jungle. Jungle warfare is its own beast and fighting in the jungle is expressly difficult--especially as (generally speaking) imperialist forces (USA, UK, Jap...none of these peoples have inter generational predispositions to resistance to Jungle Diseases...as the defending who has lived there his entire life may).

It would be also interesting to so something with defensive power of jungles. If you can't find your enemy you can't destroy them, something that the IJA used a great deal while being pushed out of the pacific.

 

[Farquarsen]

hhahahahahhahahahahaahahhaah

no

Well, perhaps a bit over the top, lets say it had a lot to do with why germany lost. Overconfidence, ambition greater than capacity. Germany was not prepared for the Russian winter nor for how good the individual russian soldier fought. These are the symptoms of the problem that cost Germany the war.

 

[mjb2k]

@podcat

How does one d-day when you have 1300 infantry battalions and only 24 40 width marines in MP?

 

[pvt.conners]

Hmmm, initially I misread that the base limit for SF was 24 divisions but it's actually battalions. That is relatively few.
By the same token, 5% of regular battalions for SF battalions is very low.
I think an increase to 15-20% would not be out of place, with techs/focuses giving more as needed.

 

[Russian Bias lmao]

Germany was not prepared for the Russian winter

Winter was completely irrelevant and contrary to smartasses in recent years, there were actual winter clothes in the Ostheer.

Now, if you want to talk about trucks, incompatible train networks, mud, distance, fatigue and logistics, then yes, there is a discussion to be had. However, I refuse not to make fun of the stupid argument that everyone uses on how the winter killed the Wehrmacht. It is an insult to the Russian people who fought and has 0 roots in reality.

 

[pvt.conners]

Winter was completely irrelevant and contrary to smartasses in recent years, there were actual winter clothes in the Ostheer.

Now, if you want to talk about trucks, incompatible train networks, mud, distance, fatigue and logistics, then yes, there is a discussion to be had. However, I refuse not to make fun of the stupid argument that everyone uses on how the winter killed the Wehrmacht. It is an insult to the Russian people who fought and has 0 roots in reality.

General Winter has an obvious Russian bias.

 

[Russian Bias lmao]

ex dee

 

[Zhenja1]

I hope to see unique models for special forces some day, Italy had some snazzy looking paras and marines

 

[Farquarsen]

Winter was completely irrelevant and contrary to smartasses in recent years, there were actual winter clothes in the Ostheer.

Now, if you want to talk about trucks, incompatible train networks, mud, distance, fatigue and logistics, then yes, there is a discussion to be had. However, I refuse not to make fun of the stupid argument that everyone uses on how the winter killed the Wehrmacht. It is an insult to the Russian people who fought and has 0 roots in reality.

All the above make a winter war. The weather just adds to the misery. clothes in the Ostheer, yes but not on the troops. rails not matching? lack of logistical planning? all add to an overconfident, over reaching wehrmacht. Russian troops fought valiantly but the purges hurt the russian ability to fully take advantage of German weaknesses. Stalin killed off a lot of good officers. I don't know who I dislike the most, Hitler or Stalin; both were mental cases.

 

[Russian Bias lmao]

trucks, incompatible train networks, mud, distance, fatigue and logistics -> winter war?

I'm sorry, I do not see any connection there. Trucks broke down because trucks break down, there was a ton of mud and they were used to exhaustion. The train networks of Germany and the USSR were not compatible and ostheer engineers had to work extensively to make parts of them usable. The mud was extensive and debilitating. Distances were chaotic. Fatigue is absolutely normal when you factor everything together and all of these put together with the nonexisten russian road networks made logistics an absolute nightmare.

The winter was actually a good thing for the Ostheer, as the ground hardened and they were finally able to attack after the autumn rains.

 

[Nodfor]

Ok, so, after discussing this with distinguished members of the Hoi4 MP community, an experienced player came up with a workaround to this.

You can get around the limitation for SF by doing the following:

Train masses of 2 width infantry, deploy them at 20% training and then change the template to a 50 width pure light tank with all equipment disabled. It will cost some manpower, but you will be able to have a very good batallion count, allowing you to field SF in big amounts.

Why 2 widths infantry? The smallest division you can make and train fast. Why convert to 50 width light tanks? Because they are easy to research for template purposes (just research great war tanks) and they cost 500 manpower for each batallion compared to 1000 for infantry. They also make a nice sound when selected. The only problem is that it will mess up the UI stockpile if you are actually using light tanks.

It remains to be seen, but it is quite likely that you will be able to delete those divions after deploying your SF troops without any negative effects for your already deployed SF troops, making the manpower cost for this workaround a temporary thing.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

It remains to be seen, but it is quite likely that you will be able to delete those divions after deploying your SF troops without any negative effects for your already deployed SF troops, making the manpower cost for this workaround a temporary thing.

It would be unfortunate if deleting those units still allowed you to retain the SF units. Maybe the developers will see this and simply remove the ability to delete units?

 

[bERt0r]

It would be unfortunate if deleting those units still allowed you to retain the SF units. Maybe the developers will see this and simply remove the ability to delete units?

No, all these caps are just a bad idea. They also don't work properly with volunteers.

 

[D Inqu]

Do the additional tech paths grant a higher percentage or do they buff current battalions? it looks like from the screen shots, the techs only buff current battalions and do not increase the number you can build.

Opening post:

Special forces are trained and equipped for conditions that ordinary soldiers aren’t expected to excel in. The first tech will give them a boost to acclimatization speed. Afterwards, the tree splits. One option is to train your special forces harder, to improve their skills and their ability to fight for longer before having to be resupplied. The other option is to expand the special forces training programs to accept more recruits. Your special forces will be more numerous, but come with more drag and not quite as high speed. In the end though, they will still be elite forces and will be able to develop training to make them even more skilled in fighting in the harshest of conditions.