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HOI4 Dev Diary - A New Germany

Hello everyone, and welcome to a new dev diary for the 1.5 “Cornflakes” update and the as-yet unannounced accompanying DLC.

For those of you who missed my introduction, I’ll briefly introduce myself. My name is Drikus and, after working briefly on DOD to help out the Content Designers on HOI4 back then, I re-joined the team in the summer to work on the next expansion, working with @Archangel85 and @Havebeard on all that CD goodness. Today I’ll be talking about some of the stuff we’ve been busy with since then.

Ever since release it’s become clear that the fanbase's interest in alternate history is far greater than we anticipated. Unfortunately, many of our focus trees for major powers are somewhat lacking in that regard, and it's something we want to change. So, while we will naturally be adding some new focus trees, this time around we will also be revamping two major nations. If this proves popular we plan to keep doing this in future expansions and eventually have all the majors with more options. For now, though, we figured a good start would be the most popular nation in HOI4: Germany!

In the next DLC, Germany will have its focus tree updated to bring it more in line with the new trees of minor nations, especially in terms of alternate history options. Furthermore, even players who do not buy the DLC will see some of these changes. For instance, we made some effort to flesh out the industrial part of the German tree. Initially only being a quick path of 4 focuses, it has now been expanded into a full 16-focus monstrosity, with paths leading into more fortification focuses, more domestic industrial focuses, and more focuses dealing with the ‘economic vassalization’ of Hungary and Romania and other areas of Europe. As a bonus, the 5th research slot is now accessible somewhat earlier, and no longer requires Air Innovations II. These changes do affect industrial balance somewhat, and we will go into how we handle that at the very end of the diary.

Germany Industry.PNG


All of the abovementioned will be free in the 1.5 “Cornflakes” update. What comes next, however, will be part of the DLC.

Use the full tree at the end of this dev diary to follow along. :)

Alternate history paths for Germany beg the question of when and how Hitler could have been stopped. These questions are very controversial, and there usually isn’t much consensus. We, however, have elected to explore the possibility of a concerted Wehrmacht opposition to Hitler, sparked by the Rhineland remilitarization.

Germany Civil War.PNG


A new path has been added, mutually exclusive with the Rhineland focus. It sparks a civil war led by the legendary August von Mackensen. Once won, the path splits, allowing the player to choose between reviving the old Kaiserreich (renaming the country to “German Empire”) and lifting Kaiser Wilhelm II’s exile in the Netherlands, or reinstating democratic elections and establishing a constitutional monarchy as a ‘compromise’ for the rather royalist (and powerful) Wehrmacht officers. In this path, Wilhelm II’s son will take the throne as Wilhelm III as a figurehead. In addition, there is a small 4-focus shared path focusing on the rebuilding of Germany after the Civil War, leading up to the German continental role as a “Bulwark against Bolshevism”.

Germany von Mackensen.PNG

Who wouldn’t want this guy leading their country?

In the Imperial branch, the player now gets the choice of either avenging the Great War, or letting bygones be bygones and focusing on the Communist threat. The former leads to Germany once again asserting its right of a ‘place in the sun’ (bullying China or Japan for the return of Tsingtao), focusing heavily on rebuilding its High Seas Fleet to challenge Britain (including some nice bonuses to battleship production and research), and then taking the fight to the British and French for their colonies. To this end, a new very powerful late-game focus has been added that will flip a significant amount of the country’s military production to naval production, in case the Soviet Union has been defeated and the player wishes to focus on the West (also available to fascists, if the player owns the DLC). The branch also enables the recreation of the Central powers via stimulating imperial sentiment in the Austro-Hungarian successor states and the assassination of Mussolini in favor of King Victor Emmanuel III.

Germany Wilhelm II.PNG

Can never have enough Pickelhaube...

The second Imperial path focuses on forgiving the British and giving up all dreams of an Imperial Navy. In return for accepting British naval supremacy, it is possible to form an alliance with them and stand together against the threat of Communism all over Europe. A punitive war with (Communist) France over Alsace-Lorraine can lead to an expulsion of the republicans from Iberia, as well as eventually taking the war directly to the Soviets, themselves. I minor shared branch, available for both the British alliance and the colonial route, allows for Germany to protect its eastern borders, retaking Memel, trading Danzig for military guarantees against the Soviets, and aiding the Baltics and the Finns with guarantees and some military support.

Germany Tsingtao.PNG

Can you taste that sweet Tsingtao beer? Ahhh, come to fatherland...

The Democratic path involves some sneaky diplomatic maneuvering, scaring the other nations in Europe into your sphere of influence by speaking up strongly against the Soviets and demonizing them. This leads to creating a Central European Alliance, in which most minor nations in Europe can be invited through various focuses, allowing for democratic Germany to challenge the historic French continental leadership role by creating its own power block. This course of action will likely result in the Soviet Union posturing threateningly, though, and gaining various bonuses to prepare them against what they perceive to be a threat to their sphere of influence. The end result of this mutual and intentional escalation is likely that it will not be possible to invite all nations you could potentially invite before the Soviets invade them. Eventually, Germany can take the fight to the Soviets, leading Europe in a war against the source of communism. In addition, it is possible for Democratic Germany to get a 6th research slot, and to strengthen their alliance through tech sharing and other cooperation.

Germany Democratic.PNG

Unleash the Swarm!

In addition, we have adjusted focuses like “Operation Weserübung” to give the player better control over the timetable of their invasions once the ball starts rolling. We’ve slightly buffed the naval parts of the core tree, adding an additional naval build-up focus or two, and adding some dockyards to Plan Z. In light of the significant improvements to Germany’s economic build-up in the new industrial tree, we are also revisiting the start-of-game balance of the nation. The intention is to make Germany initially weaker, but also quicker in building up, especially before any war has broken out. To that end, we have added a new idea upon startup. MEFO Bills will reduce the consumer goods by 20% (resulting in virtually no consumer good requirements at all), but have to be extended every three months. The price of extending these will progressively increase, as will the penalty that must be paid if these are not extended. Paying off these bills can be delayed by going to war, in which case the payment will be deferred until after the war’s conclusion (so be sure you can afford it by that point!). And finally, just as with the industrial segment of the tree, everything that was mentioned in this paragraph will be available without owning the DLC.

Germany MEFO.png


And finally, in its full glory:

Germany_tree.jpg


Don’t forget to check out the World War Wednesday stream later today, where @Da9L and @podcat will go through this dev diary while the rest of us get our asses handed to us by the Allies in South America. We look forward to showing you more cool stuff next week! :)
 
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Duke_Dave

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If the game were to be truly historical, it wouldn't be a game it would be a reenactment. The moment player choice occurs then the random card fall of history is gone, and we are into what ifs.
Yes and to say something is more likely than something else, is easy in hindsight, but in a different universe, the resoration of Austria-Hungary, Trotzky taking over and the SU and Nazi Germany fighting and defeating side by side the united kingdom made historical sense and every other outcome of history was seeen as unreasonable.
The game is a sandbox, has been promoted as a sandbox and the bigger part of the community wants it as a sandbox. They will still put in historical aspects and yes they should fix some aspects (provinc-borders, etc.). But at the end of the day getting Emperor Wilhelm II back is as important for the community as having a historical communist leader for Siam.
 

Duke_Dave

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Any theories about who is going to get the Second Upgraded Focus Tree?
My money is on Japan if this is an Asia DLC, if its a Spain DLC I'd go with SU.
 

SoulsAtZero

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Is anything being done about the deaths of some of the characters introduced? Kaiser Billhelm died in 1941, I'd understand getting back the throne might make you want to not die a little longer, but he's still an old man at this point. As well August Von Mackensen died in 1945 since he's not gonna be leading Germany past the anti-Hitler Insurrection he's at least deserving an event saying he's died.
 

JerkyJerry

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General Luigi

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Now this looks promising. Jeez, there are so many alternate histories I'd love to look into. The fall of Communism in the Soviet Union comes to mind for me. Perhaps a restoration of the Empire and/or Kerensky's republic? A constitutional monarchy also comes to mind as a possibility.

That said, I'm currently most interested in seeing the Chinese focus trees getting fleshed out (and, by extension, the focus trees of any countries that would be affected by said fleshing-out being accordingly adjusted). Heck, maybe even unique trees for the warlords...
 

rjohansen

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I had some high hopes for this DLC, but oh well. More focus on a-historical and implausible nonsense just doesn't do it for me. I am quite close to give up on HOI4 for good, loosing hope, if no more focus is going into at least trying to create a plausible and historical game.

Don't get me wrong, Paradox creates good and entertaining games, I also play many of their other games, and from what it seems, a lot of people might enjoy this DLC too. However, I personally want to play WW2 - not some fantasy war in an implausible fantasy universe. I did not buy Stellaris for instance and never will.

Steam Workshop Description said:
...the strategy game Hearts of Iron IV lets you take command of any nation in World War II; the most engaging conflict in world history. *

...you will guide your nation to glory and wage war, negotiate or invade. You hold the power to tip the very balance of WWII. **
...Experience the full WWII timespan in a topographical map complete with seasons, weather and terrain
* Agree! WW2 is the most engaging and interesting conflict in world history. Yet the game does not by any means reflect that.
** Paradox clearly says it is a game about WW2... Yet, forum users always saying it's a "sandbox" game and is not supposed to reflect history. Well, for all the previous players of HOI - I beg to differ. The game has always intended to be about WW2 in my opinion. And perhaps, more important, HOI4 is clearly promoted as a WW2 game - still, over and over again, especially on this forum, the saying is that it is "not a game about WW2" but a game of what-if sandbox stuff.

It's sad though, as I have been playing HOI since the first game came out, and HOI made me buy other Paradox games later on. But there are other games out there that try to create realistic, plausible and historical games, and well, there is always HOI3 (and many great mods) - far better than HOI4 in most aspects.
 

Dalwin

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What is the purpose of doing something that mod (Kaiserreich) does probably much better and complex?

Only money?

I suggest to fix warfare mechanic. Why? Because is idiotic in the game against AI. Design a plan and forget about the game.
I am not sure you understand the comparison at all. The mod Kaiserreich is deeply into alternate history and the deviation came back in 1918. It is sheer fantasy and fun.

What these alternate NFs will do is introduce a minor variation in history in the late 30s. It will still be WWII era Europe more or less and not some total fiction as is the mod.
 

rjohansen

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What these alternate NFs will do is introduce a minor variation in history in the late 30s. It will still be WWII era Europe more or less and not some total fiction as is the mod.

Minor variation to history? This thing has nothing to do with history at all. It's total fiction and fantasy in my opinion and I can't understand that people actually want this, I know many do, I just can't understand it. WW2 was the greatest conflict the world has ever seen, who can ever ask for more, why try to create a fictional-fantasy-war instead?
 

Dalwin

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Minor variation to history? This thing has nothing to do with history at all. It's total fiction and fantasy in my opinion and I can't understand that people actually want this, I know many do, I just can't understand it. WW2 was the greatest conflict the world has ever seen, who can ever ask for more, why try to create a fictional-fantasy-war instead?
It is very minor compared to the scope of the changes present in the mod Kaiserreich. That mod rewrites the entire world in a major way. There is really no denying that.

Go ahead an take the comment entirely out of context if it gives you something to talk about but is there really a point? It is also no less minor than many of the other historical fantasy items already present in HOI4. Lets put Trotsky in charge of the SU perhaps?
 

rjohansen

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It is very minor compared to the scope of the changes present in the mod Kaiserreich. That mod rewrites the entire world in a major way. There is really no denying that.

Ah! I apologize then. I read too fast I suppose, I though that these changes you meant where minor to history, and also that mod I have never tried.

It is also no less minor than many of the other historical fantasy items already present in HOI4. Lets put Trotsky in charge of the SU perhaps?

Not of a fan of the fantasy elements at all. And you are right here and I agree.
 

LordLoko

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So no expansion to the "Befriends the Chinese?", inviting them to the Axis could be an interesting Alt-hsitory element.
 

CrazyZombie

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Now this looks promising. Jeez, there are so many alternate histories I'd love to look into. The fall of Communism in the Soviet Union comes to mind for me. Perhaps a restoration of the Empire and/or Kerensky's republic? A constitutional monarchy also comes to mind as a possibility.

Kerensky was noone even during Civil war. Due to all his mistakes and failures, he was pretty hated by both White and Red sides, so he is a political corpse anyway.
Soviet democratic leader should be some member of party with moderate view of socialism and way to it.

Restoration of Empire is kind of very hard too: monarchists were a marginal minority in White movement.

Only choices, I see logical, are Stalin-Trotsky dilemma, Tukhachevsky coup, party split between Stalin supporters and apologets of democratisation (already hardcore fiction, but at least not as much as Kerensky), and of course, fascism. Maybe, crypto-fascism under red banners.

I'm sure that you've thought about these issues carefully, and your facts are right, but I think you've missed other factors that open up another conclusion.

Trump was never going to win the election; Brexit was never going to happen. But they did. And to turn more closely to your argument, neither Tsar Nicholas II nor Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek had any intention of giving the Communists any say either. Who would have predicted in 1914 that Russia would have a Communist government in five years' time? Who in 1935 could imagine a German Chancellor kneeling at a Polish memorial to Jewish people? In the former cases, of course, it's possible to argue that the Communists only came to power because of a major war. But once you've got a civil war in Germany, what's to stop the Poles from permitting a sealed train from Moscow, or some other event that puts the KPD back in the game? After all, a civil war sounds like exactly the kind of thing that might totally undermine people's confidence in Hindenburg, the Wehrmacht, and the officer class.

I'm at risk of straying into history forum topics, but I hope I've shown that the lore for a Communist German NF tree could be plausible.
Agree. There are still ways for communists in Germany to show that they are not dead yet. Assasination of Hitler (and better - with some of his supporters) on some meeting or so. With a bomb.

Don't forget, KPD in 20-s and early 30-s had a lot of supporters, own combat squads with veterans of Great War too, a lot of people lost their relatives in fights with nazi combat squads, and you want to say that they will just forget about everything? Even in OKW there were a lot of people, seing USSR as a natural ally in a war against Britain.
 
Last edited:

Ryousan2k

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People should realize that Alt-History is already in the game: Horthy getting assasinated? Carol II becoming a Competent ruler? Czechoslovakia not bowing down to Germany? A Habsburg restoration in Hungary? And so many more

Ignoring Alt-History elements would kill 50% of the Game`s Fun if not more: Why would anyone play as Italy for example? They should a load a National Spirits that make them ineffective in Battle and suffer from almost insta- Civil War the moment the Allies invade.

If what you seek is 100% Historical Accuracy thee a multitude of other titles that follow tha line. In my opinion, Paradox should do more of this. I WANT THE TSAR BACK! Bozhe, Tsarya khrani!
 

astec

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1) 5PP increase for extension, 10 for payoff.
2) No, you have to decide every 3 months.
3) You're put in debt (negative PP until you make up the difference)
4) This is very WIP and I don't have a good answer right now, yet.

Note that these numbers are subject to change :)

That seems like a reasonable political power payment for most multiplayer games (that start around late 1939 or so)

Just curious, does the 5pp increase stack as in 1st time +5 pp 2nd time +10pp?