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HOI4 Dev Diary - A New Germany

Hello everyone, and welcome to a new dev diary for the 1.5 “Cornflakes” update and the as-yet unannounced accompanying DLC.

For those of you who missed my introduction, I’ll briefly introduce myself. My name is Drikus and, after working briefly on DOD to help out the Content Designers on HOI4 back then, I re-joined the team in the summer to work on the next expansion, working with @Archangel85 and @Havebeard on all that CD goodness. Today I’ll be talking about some of the stuff we’ve been busy with since then.

Ever since release it’s become clear that the fanbase's interest in alternate history is far greater than we anticipated. Unfortunately, many of our focus trees for major powers are somewhat lacking in that regard, and it's something we want to change. So, while we will naturally be adding some new focus trees, this time around we will also be revamping two major nations. If this proves popular we plan to keep doing this in future expansions and eventually have all the majors with more options. For now, though, we figured a good start would be the most popular nation in HOI4: Germany!

In the next DLC, Germany will have its focus tree updated to bring it more in line with the new trees of minor nations, especially in terms of alternate history options. Furthermore, even players who do not buy the DLC will see some of these changes. For instance, we made some effort to flesh out the industrial part of the German tree. Initially only being a quick path of 4 focuses, it has now been expanded into a full 16-focus monstrosity, with paths leading into more fortification focuses, more domestic industrial focuses, and more focuses dealing with the ‘economic vassalization’ of Hungary and Romania and other areas of Europe. As a bonus, the 5th research slot is now accessible somewhat earlier, and no longer requires Air Innovations II. These changes do affect industrial balance somewhat, and we will go into how we handle that at the very end of the diary.

Germany Industry.PNG


All of the abovementioned will be free in the 1.5 “Cornflakes” update. What comes next, however, will be part of the DLC.

Use the full tree at the end of this dev diary to follow along. :)

Alternate history paths for Germany beg the question of when and how Hitler could have been stopped. These questions are very controversial, and there usually isn’t much consensus. We, however, have elected to explore the possibility of a concerted Wehrmacht opposition to Hitler, sparked by the Rhineland remilitarization.

Germany Civil War.PNG


A new path has been added, mutually exclusive with the Rhineland focus. It sparks a civil war led by the legendary August von Mackensen. Once won, the path splits, allowing the player to choose between reviving the old Kaiserreich (renaming the country to “German Empire”) and lifting Kaiser Wilhelm II’s exile in the Netherlands, or reinstating democratic elections and establishing a constitutional monarchy as a ‘compromise’ for the rather royalist (and powerful) Wehrmacht officers. In this path, Wilhelm II’s son will take the throne as Wilhelm III as a figurehead. In addition, there is a small 4-focus shared path focusing on the rebuilding of Germany after the Civil War, leading up to the German continental role as a “Bulwark against Bolshevism”.

Germany von Mackensen.PNG

Who wouldn’t want this guy leading their country?

In the Imperial branch, the player now gets the choice of either avenging the Great War, or letting bygones be bygones and focusing on the Communist threat. The former leads to Germany once again asserting its right of a ‘place in the sun’ (bullying China or Japan for the return of Tsingtao), focusing heavily on rebuilding its High Seas Fleet to challenge Britain (including some nice bonuses to battleship production and research), and then taking the fight to the British and French for their colonies. To this end, a new very powerful late-game focus has been added that will flip a significant amount of the country’s military production to naval production, in case the Soviet Union has been defeated and the player wishes to focus on the West (also available to fascists, if the player owns the DLC). The branch also enables the recreation of the Central powers via stimulating imperial sentiment in the Austro-Hungarian successor states and the assassination of Mussolini in favor of King Victor Emmanuel III.

Germany Wilhelm II.PNG

Can never have enough Pickelhaube...

The second Imperial path focuses on forgiving the British and giving up all dreams of an Imperial Navy. In return for accepting British naval supremacy, it is possible to form an alliance with them and stand together against the threat of Communism all over Europe. A punitive war with (Communist) France over Alsace-Lorraine can lead to an expulsion of the republicans from Iberia, as well as eventually taking the war directly to the Soviets, themselves. I minor shared branch, available for both the British alliance and the colonial route, allows for Germany to protect its eastern borders, retaking Memel, trading Danzig for military guarantees against the Soviets, and aiding the Baltics and the Finns with guarantees and some military support.

Germany Tsingtao.PNG

Can you taste that sweet Tsingtao beer? Ahhh, come to fatherland...

The Democratic path involves some sneaky diplomatic maneuvering, scaring the other nations in Europe into your sphere of influence by speaking up strongly against the Soviets and demonizing them. This leads to creating a Central European Alliance, in which most minor nations in Europe can be invited through various focuses, allowing for democratic Germany to challenge the historic French continental leadership role by creating its own power block. This course of action will likely result in the Soviet Union posturing threateningly, though, and gaining various bonuses to prepare them against what they perceive to be a threat to their sphere of influence. The end result of this mutual and intentional escalation is likely that it will not be possible to invite all nations you could potentially invite before the Soviets invade them. Eventually, Germany can take the fight to the Soviets, leading Europe in a war against the source of communism. In addition, it is possible for Democratic Germany to get a 6th research slot, and to strengthen their alliance through tech sharing and other cooperation.

Germany Democratic.PNG

Unleash the Swarm!

In addition, we have adjusted focuses like “Operation Weserübung” to give the player better control over the timetable of their invasions once the ball starts rolling. We’ve slightly buffed the naval parts of the core tree, adding an additional naval build-up focus or two, and adding some dockyards to Plan Z. In light of the significant improvements to Germany’s economic build-up in the new industrial tree, we are also revisiting the start-of-game balance of the nation. The intention is to make Germany initially weaker, but also quicker in building up, especially before any war has broken out. To that end, we have added a new idea upon startup. MEFO Bills will reduce the consumer goods by 20% (resulting in virtually no consumer good requirements at all), but have to be extended every three months. The price of extending these will progressively increase, as will the penalty that must be paid if these are not extended. Paying off these bills can be delayed by going to war, in which case the payment will be deferred until after the war’s conclusion (so be sure you can afford it by that point!). And finally, just as with the industrial segment of the tree, everything that was mentioned in this paragraph will be available without owning the DLC.

Germany MEFO.png


And finally, in its full glory:

Germany_tree.jpg


Don’t forget to check out the World War Wednesday stream later today, where @Da9L and @podcat will go through this dev diary while the rest of us get our asses handed to us by the Allies in South America. We look forward to showing you more cool stuff next week! :)
 
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Thure

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I think that mods are for fantasy scenarios. The devs should stick to improve the WW2 of a WW2 game. I understand that you (Bratyn) are not a coder, but when i pre-order the game, paradox never said that its going to be more focused on alt-history than than the actual history. Why not spend your time on making more content for countries that matter in the period?, like Spain, Finland, Bulgaria, Siam?. The Alt-History should wait until the WW2 part of the game its done.

I think plausible alternate history stuff is okay. It's way more realistic than Aztec invasion in CK2...

Yeah, but that brain drain was in progress since 1933. Einstein for example renounced his German citizenship and left for the USA in that year.

But it was just exile. If there was no reason for his exile anymore and the Nazis are gone he would most likely come back.
 

Sleight of Hand

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Tell us something we don't know. ;)
You've spent the last 15 years (on this forum) making sarcastic comments and talking about how old and out of touch you are. I'm not misquoting you there; you do it all the time.

I try to help people and provide interesting content for these games. Less of the snide comments, please?
 

RELee

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You've spent the last 15 years (on this forum) making sarcastic comments and talking about how old and out of touch you are. I'm not misquoting you there; you do it all the time.

I try to help people and provide interesting content for these games. Less of the snide comments, please?
Snide remark removed. Feel better?
 

Loophole Rabbit

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But it was just exile. If there was no reason for his exile anymore and the Nazis are gone he would most likely come back.
Most likely? I doubt it. He didn’t return to democratic post war Germany.
 

Prinz Wilhelm

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You're quite full of yourself, friendo.

Yeah, because there are so many mods out there that also have Mackensen coming to power in Germany if they back down after Rhineland. o_O
 

Duke_Dave

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Given that Mackensen died in 1945 can we get him as Field Marshall? I think Podcat, said he wouldn't be around for long (in 1936) but he was. Would be nice to have him and maybe a more Imperial look for some of the generals.
 

SeekTruthFromFx

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Germany going communist pre-WW2 was pretty much decided prior to the time frame of the game. The whole November Revolution, Spartacist Uprising, and then the Freikorps and Army stomping said left leaning revolutionaries all happened about 15 years before the game time frame. Not much likelihood Hindenburg was going to allow communists any say and ole Adolf sure wasn't. Takes a pretty big rabbit hole to go down that path with a lot of made up fanciful hypothetical what ifs.

I'm sure that you've thought about these issues carefully, and your facts are right, but I think you've missed other factors that open up another conclusion.

Trump was never going to win the election; Brexit was never going to happen. But they did. And to turn more closely to your argument, neither Tsar Nicholas II nor Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek had any intention of giving the Communists any say either. Who would have predicted in 1914 that Russia would have a Communist government in five years' time? Who in 1935 could imagine a German Chancellor kneeling at a Polish memorial to Jewish people? In the former cases, of course, it's possible to argue that the Communists only came to power because of a major war. But once you've got a civil war in Germany, what's to stop the Poles from permitting a sealed train from Moscow, or some other event that puts the KPD back in the game? After all, a civil war sounds like exactly the kind of thing that might totally undermine people's confidence in Hindenburg, the Wehrmacht, and the officer class.

I'm at risk of straying into history forum topics, but I hope I've shown that the lore for a Communist German NF tree could be plausible.
 

JerkyJerry

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Ever since release it’s become clear that the fanbase's interest in alternate history is far greater than we anticipated. Unfortunately, many of our focus trees for major powers are somewhat lacking in that regard, and it's something we want to change. So, while we will naturally be adding some new focus trees, this time around we will also be revamping two major nations. If this proves popular we plan to keep doing this in future expansions and eventually have all the majors with more options. For now, though, we figured a good start would be the most popular nation in HOI4: Germany!

Oh such lovely music to my ears/eyes! Finally some love for the majority of players; the Ahistorical players!
So it appears that Germany was chosen due to the amount of people that play her? If memory serves isn't America the second most popular country to play? And let's face it America's focus tree is oh so underwhelming! So plain so blah.

I also loved the part when Brayton said "we have a million ten minute fixes lined up." Now, in a recent post I was called a "Hippie" by one poster for suggesting PDX do exactly what they are doing...... taking the time to make all those little fixes they never had/have time for. Who is the hippie now?!?! <insert 4:20 emoji here>
 
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Would rather like to see more attention to the core content - alt-history is better implemented by mods which are made with this goal from the start and don't have to concern themselves with what has happened IRL, like Kaiserreich, which even in alpha has much more comprehensive alt-history paths and choices (because everything there is alt-history, and the world somewhat makes sense no matter what you choose as there is also no strong focus on one event).

The thing is HoI as a game is extremely narrow and centered around one thing - Germany and WW2. One step away for the key actors and you get an empty game where nothing makes sense and nobody cares about anything.

Speaking about SP. Not sure how it works in MP.

Although, no doubt, these changes with the dynamic focus threes will help modders.
 
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wildbillhdmax01

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JerkyJerry

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Would rather like to see more attention to the core content - alt-history is better implemented by mods which are made with this goal from the start and don't have to concern themselves with what has happened IRL, like Kaiserreich, which even in alpha has much more comprehensive alt-history paths and choices (because everything there is alt-history, and the world somewhat makes sense no matter what you choose as there is also no strong focus on one event).

The thing is HoI as a game is extremely narrow and centered around one thing - Germany and WW2. One step away for the key actors and you get an empty game where nothing makes sense and nobody cares about anything.

Speaking about SP. Not sure how it works in MP.

Although, no doubt, these changes with the dynamic focus threes will help modders.

I don't agree at all. It is PDX that placed the Alternative History box/path for us to choose. Just because they chose (as of now) not to provide us with any alternative history anything: weapons, foci, companies, generals, traits, leaders, faction etc. etc. etc. is really on them. I don't quite understand the option to play Ahistorical yet after that button is pushed there is not a single Ahistorical thing I can do.
Germany was WW2. They were the straw that stirs the drink. Without Germany I would not be buying this game. PDX would not have made the game. It would be boring. The game has to revolve around Germany because the war did.
 
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Germany was WW2. They were the straw that stirs the drink. Without Germany I would not be buying this game. PDX would not have made the game. It would be boring. The game has to revolve around Germany because the war did.

That's exactly what I wanted to convey in my message. I am not sure with what do you disagree?
 

JerkyJerry

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The thing is HoI as a game is extremely narrow and centered around one thing - Germany and WW2. One step away for the key actors and you get an empty game where nothing makes sense and nobody cares about anything.
I was referring to this. Did I misunderstand you?
 
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I was referring to this. Did I misunderstand you?

You probably assumed that I meant it in some accusative bad way.

No, it is just a core characteristic of a WW2 game. As it is now, a major doing anything unexpected (like Germany going non-Nazi) pretty much breaks the game which is about Germany, certain events, and certain war. Unless they add a really well-thought alt history developments for each possible alternate path of every major. And I don't see it happening - these alt-paths will likely just stay fanservice rudiments. Basically what @frolix42 said above.
 
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Soundwave339

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What I think would be really awesome (and going along with the central powers restored idea) would be a better tree for Turkey that allows them to restore The Ottoman empire, and it would be nice to throw Bulgaria a tree too, I think it would be cool if Paradox either did this in a Central Power themed expansion (Which could be this one, though I'm not too convinced that they are) or give Turkey, Bulgaria and Greece their own expansion with trees and stuff.
 

Mr Thursday

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Feb 8, 2017
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If the game were to be truly historical, it wouldn't be a game it would be a reenactment. The moment player choice occurs then the random card fall of history is gone, and we are into what ifs.