Welcome to another developer diary for EU4. This time its about country customization - our efforts to make each country truly unique.

We added National Ideas as a feature to the series in EU3. It was a great concept, because of how it added visible differentiation to countries, and we were really happy with the results. In EU4, we have revitalized the idea system to more properly represent the differences between countries. Our new design for ideas is something that should be satisfactory to the historical crowd and to those who prefer more of an open-ended game.

Idea Groups
Instead of choosing national ideas when various techs are gained, you now have slots for idea groups. Idea groups consist of seven ideas and have a bonus for getting all of the ideas in a group. Picking ideas within a group has to be done sequentially – you can't leapfrog from an early idea in a group to a later one, but you can choose from any available group at any time. You are not forced to buy all ideas in one group before getting ideas from another group.

You have eight possible slots for ideagroups, which is given from various technlogy levels. What makes the game more interesting though, is that when you have selected an ideagroup, you are basically stuck with it. You have chosen the path for your nation. Investing into a full idea group takes quite a while, and can cost several decades worth of power.

There are sixteen possible idea groups you can choose from in EU4, each with seven different ideas in them, and a bonus. They are Plutocracy, Aristocracy, Innovativeness, Religion, Espionage, Diplomatic, Offensive, Defensive, Trade, Economic, Exploration, Naval, Quality, Quantity, Expansion & Administrative. Remember – you can only have a maximum of eight of these, so half of the idea groups will never come into play for your country. You veteran players may notice how many of these idea groups parallel the tracks that used to be domestic policy sliders.

Each of these idea groups use one specific monarch power for buying ideas., To increase in offensive ideas you will be using military power and exploration uses diplomatic power, for example.

National ideas
Every country also has something we call National Ideas, with the most important countries having a set of unique national ideas. Major countries including the Mamelukes and England have seven unique ideas granting them specific abilities. These ideas are not something you spend power on to buy, but, instead, you gain one of these ideas for free for every third idea you buy normally from an idea group.

Every nation also starts with a national tradition: two abilities which define the history and heritage of the country. As we see here, Sweden starts with 5% better infantry and 25% cheaper mercenaries. Countries also have what we call “national ambition”, which is a bonus given when you have gained all seven of your national ideas. This bonus is also unique for each country.

Interface
To make the game more comprehensible and transparent, ideas are represented by icons that correspond to their effects.
Every time this effect is active or needed for display purposes (like in describing country modifiers or religious bonuses) you will see this icon. That way you can tell at a glance the impact your ideas are having on your national evolution.


Next week, we'll be back to talk more about .. lets see… something on the isles..

 

[Red_warning]

Which probably means "every other nation west of Poland" - Italians and Germans put in the same bunch would hint at that.

You'd prefer culture specific ideas I take it?

 

[ParadogsGamer]

What I like about this is that the speed at which you buy ideas is entirely up to you.
In EU3 you would always choose a NI as soon as a new slot became available. In EU4 you may choose to spend your power points on other things such as tech instead.

What I would like to know is at what speed the devs bought ideas in the screenshot. As we can see, the two first slots (defensive and offensive) have both been filled out and the third slot (diplomatic) is about halfway through, but the fourth slot has not been unlocked yet because the appropriate tech hasn't been reached.
So, is it normal that you'd usually fill out an entire slot before the next slot becomes available or is just because the devs chose to prioritize ideas over tech?

 

[WeissRaben]

You'd prefer culture specific ideas I take it?

That would be the idea, yes.

Oh, well. Time to start preparing mods.

 

[Ephafn]

That sounds like a much needed improvement from the current (EU3) system of sliders + NI.

One question though: All of the unlock text have a number with them "Unlock at the Constitution (22)". Is this number the order in which each technology is researched? If so, does it means that researching technology is still linear in each category, just as in EU3?

 

[MasterOfGrey]

Ok, I missed Ireland. That would be odd indeed, irish with the same idea structure as Sicilians.

I actually think they'd make sense to be similar. They have similar situations:
- Island Nation
- Limited Manpower
- Restricted Resources
- In close proximity to large naval powers with superior land armies.
- Frequently tied up with complicated local politics.

While the cultures have a lot of superficial differences the challenges they face are pretty similar. Heck one could almost say they're duplicate countries.

 

[Jaol]

I'm interested in tech requirements for Ideas. In the screenshot, we see the unfilled Idea Group slots each have a requirement listed, like Unlock at University (17). Am I right in assuming those are tech levels?

If so, are tech levels only a requirement for unlocking a new Group, or are there tech requirements for the individual Ideas in a group?

Also, will we see what Ideas/Groups other nations have?

 

[unmerged(63836)]

Actually, scratch that. Rereading the first post, I'm strongly in favor of leaving it as is.

The Ideas aren't bipolar. It isn't as though you choose Defensive but a revolution would, like the French, turn sharply Offensive. And it would seem the Ideas are purely positive. They confer bonuses but not penalties. And they seem to represent something deep in the culture of a country, something a government or revolution wouldn't necessarily be able to change and, anyway, may not be something subject to change. A country is to "unlearn" an Idea?

It seems to me that these are meant to represent a ruler's influence over the cultural, political, social, and intellectual development of the nation. That influence is limited, and part of exercising it is accepting that these developments fundamentally define the nation throughout history.

They often are. Country should be able to shift from aristocracy to plutocracy, not be stuck with aristocracy for ever because it's well developed tradition. Country should be able to go from highly religious to innovative, not be stuck with strong religious traditions for ever. Country should be able to switch from reliance on trade to productions once it grows and trade becomes less profitable due to outside factors. Sliders were reflecting non-linear multi-polar nature of country dynamic internal development pretty well. RPG-esque 'skill trees' that you're stuck with are better suited for rpgs where you play role of a single character specialised on given field, not for decades of history of a country that often had many twists and turns - not pre-destined path to follow for centuries.

I get the idea that traditional values should be hard to change/reverse, but there should be such option - triggering decades of unrest and internal strife from resisting beneficiaries of given tradition, if necessary.

 

[MasterOfGrey]

In many places Aristocrats were also Plutocrats. These two areas aren't mutually exclusive with the new system, and since they're always beneficial in some way it doesn't strike me as being overly concerning that these are more fixed. The same applies to trade and production. Just because production has become a more significant part of the economy doesn't mean you wish to abandon all the knowledge and expertise that has accumulated in your country from many decades of trade.

I admit there are points to be made for religious vs innovative, but again, he only said the feature to replace idea groups has not been added -yet-. I'd also point out though that there are plenty of examples where innovativeness occurred alongside religion. Sure it wasn't the norm, but this would be reflected well by the NI's distributed through countries in the game.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

They often are. Country should be able to shift from aristocracy to plutocracy, not be stuck with aristocracy for ever because it's well developed tradition. Country should be able to go from highly religious to innovative, not be stuck with strong religious traditions for ever. Country should be able to switch from reliance on trade to productions once it grows and trade becomes less profitable due to outside factors. Sliders were reflecting non-linear multi-polar nature of country dynamic internal development pretty well. RPG-esque 'skill trees' that you're stuck with are better suited for rpgs where you play role of a single character specialised on given field, not for decades of history of a country that often had many twists and turns - not pre-destined path to follow for centuries.

I get the idea that traditional values should be hard to change/reverse, but there should be such option - triggering decades of unrest and internal strife from resisting beneficiaries of given tradition, if necessary.

I agree. If it works as stated... how can the French revolution sudden change of mindset, or even more common, a simple "political" revolution like the reign of Frederick the Great, the stop of discoveries in China, the acute shift in Aragon from a defensive nation into a deeply aggressive one with Alphonse V?

Sure, much of that depends on the kings and their advisors, but still. Sliders worked very well to represent these changes. A set of tree-like ideas, not so much.

But, hey, I don't know how will it turn out, the devs surely know what they're doing.

 

[RhoDaZZ]

Awesome job on the ideagroups/ideas system. Incredible and great that each country will have it's own ambitions to reach.

Is it moddable that only major countries have unique ideas?

Also, noticing the sprite looking the other way, I'm curious: Have you improved idle animations from DW? Personally I'd prefer a non-moving head rather than one moving it's head in a robotic surveying manner. Of course a slightly moving face that doesn't look a lot left and right all the time would be better (in general, looking straight and/or up/down gives a better sense of suspension of disbelief imo).

Personally I don't see the bad thing in giving countries unique tradition bonuses - as long as they are relatively small as we saw in the screenshot (I also assume it's moddable). Don't tell me you haven't ever thought all countries in EU3 were too much alike.

I do think it's a good thing ideagroups can't be arbitrarily changed by the player, but some kinds of rebellions that succeed and government changes should be able to affect the setup of the idea groups in one way or another.

 

[apg]

I must say this looks excellent!

great ideas - i can really see this adding lots of flavour and new options for your country to take all dependant on what your own goals are. Excellent!

And i expect this is all fully moddable yes?

Great work guys - it looks a much better system than EU3 + please ignore the idiots who seem to think its somehow deterministic.

And i like the swedish sprite and the feather in his cap. Is there going to be lots of variation with sprites? i hope so!

 

[unmerged(63836)]

In many places Aristocrats were also Plutocrats. These two areas aren't mutually exclusive with the new system, and since they're always beneficial in some way it doesn't strike me as being overly concerning that these are more fixed. The same applies to trade and production. Just because production has become a more significant part of the economy doesn't mean you wish to abandon all the knowledge and expertise that has accumulated in your country from many decades of trade.

I admit there are points to be made for religious vs innovative, but again, he only said the feature to replace idea groups has not been added -yet-. I'd also point out though that there are plenty of examples where innovativeness occurred alongside religion. Sure it wasn't the norm, but this would be reflected well by the NI's distributed through countries in the game.

You have to admit though, that in majority of cases power was usurped either by aristocrats, or by other classes. It generated a lot of conflicts throughout the period where if one social group was stronger, other were discontented. You could rely on aristocrats which pissed off burghers, or on burghers to limit power of aristocrats, or maintain balance of power between them. This system does not simulate this with simplistic, rpg-esque bonus-only progression.

EDIT

Accumulated expertise in trade, production or military traditions is one thing. Ideological/religious stance or distribution of power between internal factions is another - they were often dynamic and mutually exclusive. It's huge step back from sliders, and instance of dumbing down the game to be honest.

 

[Funnyman320]

So if I read this correctly, the only limit on ideas is the actual number the devs have designed? I assume picking ideas all the time makes your country rather backwards tech-wise?

 

[WeissRaben]

So if I read this correctly, the only limit on ideas is the actual number the devs have designed? I assume picking ideas all the time makes your country rather backwards tech-wise?

Ideas, I don't know. Idea groups are unlocked by tech, though, as EU3.

 

[ParadogsGamer]

So if I read this correctly, the only limit on ideas is the actual number the devs have designed?

No, you can only get half of the total ideas in the game (8 slots x 7 ideas = 56 vs a total of 16 areas x 7 ideas = 112).

I assume picking ideas all the time makes your country rather backwards tech-wise?

Yes, the limiting factor here is the availability of power points.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

I'm very curios about this new mechanic. I Like

 

[Grubnessul]

You have to admit though, that in majority of cases power was usurped either by aristocrats, or by other classes. It generated a lot of conflicts throughout the period where if one social group was stronger, other were discontented. You could rely on aristocrats which pissed off burghers, or on burghers to limit power of aristocrats, or maintain balance of power between them. This system does not simulate this with simplistic, rpg-esque bonus-only progression.

EDIT

Accumulated expertise in trade, production or military traditions is one thing. Ideological/religious stance or distribution of power between internal factions is another - they were often dynamic and mutually exclusive. It's huge step back from sliders, and instance of dumbing down the game to be honest.

I assume there will be plenty of events of people not being happy with a lot of aristocratic ideas. While I do share your concern, I assume a reset idea slot will be made eventually. It should not refund the powerpoints (for the lack of a better word) you have spent on it though.

 

[Dankysh]

t's huge step back from sliders, and instance of dumbing down the game to be honest.

Not here to discuss history but the gameplay. Granted EU3 gave you the possibility to change to offensive/def, to cent/decent, to quality/quantity and back. But when did a situation actually need for this to happen. I don't ever remember one single game were I have spent 100 years (100 due to your previous posts) going in one direction (ie Free Trade), then deciding my country will be better off by spending another 100 years to completely change my military/economy/technology etc.

The only time I ever remotely considered it was after westernising and being a naval power. I was stuck Shiite but owned quite a lot of coastal Sunni/Hindi provinces. To get a bigger naval FL I wanted to convert these. In the end it wasn't worth moving back losing on the direction I took my country.

Sure there was an option to change (though for most countries it was clear what one needed to do, whether pluto/aristo, naval/land. And very rarely did one need to radically change their military/economy to compete/expand - AND the investment to do it would be worth it in the long run).

I really like the changes, the sliders were generally very obvious and I really don't see it being 'dumbed' down. Simply my personal opinion on things.

 

[LYNCHY]

Are the national ideas moddable? Like can i add in some unique national ideas to smaller countries like an Irish OPM?

 

[nOxr]

Do the national ideas also have to be taken in a specific order?