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Welcome to another developer diary for EU4. This time its about country customization - our efforts to make each country truly unique.

We added National Ideas as a feature to the series in EU3. It was a great concept, because of how it added visible differentiation to countries, and we were really happy with the results. In EU4, we have revitalized the idea system to more properly represent the differences between countries. Our new design for ideas is something that should be satisfactory to the historical crowd and to those who prefer more of an open-ended game.

Idea Groups
Instead of choosing national ideas when various techs are gained, you now have slots for idea groups. Idea groups consist of seven ideas and have a bonus for getting all of the ideas in a group. Picking ideas within a group has to be done sequentially – you can't leapfrog from an early idea in a group to a later one, but you can choose from any available group at any time. You are not forced to buy all ideas in one group before getting ideas from another group.

You have eight possible slots for ideagroups, which is given from various technlogy levels. What makes the game more interesting though, is that when you have selected an ideagroup, you are basically stuck with it. You have chosen the path for your nation. Investing into a full idea group takes quite a while, and can cost several decades worth of power.

There are sixteen possible idea groups you can choose from in EU4, each with seven different ideas in them, and a bonus. They are Plutocracy, Aristocracy, Innovativeness, Religion, Espionage, Diplomatic, Offensive, Defensive, Trade, Economic, Exploration, Naval, Quality, Quantity, Expansion & Administrative. Remember – you can only have a maximum of eight of these, so half of the idea groups will never come into play for your country. You veteran players may notice how many of these idea groups parallel the tracks that used to be domestic policy sliders.

Each of these idea groups use one specific monarch power for buying ideas., To increase in offensive ideas you will be using military power and exploration uses diplomatic power, for example.

National ideas
Every country also has something we call National Ideas, with the most important countries having a set of unique national ideas. Major countries including the Mamelukes and England have seven unique ideas granting them specific abilities. These ideas are not something you spend power on to buy, but, instead, you gain one of these ideas for free for every third idea you buy normally from an idea group.

Every nation also starts with a national tradition: two abilities which define the history and heritage of the country. As we see here, Sweden starts with 5% better infantry and 25% cheaper mercenaries. Countries also have what we call “national ambition”, which is a bonus given when you have gained all seven of your national ideas. This bonus is also unique for each country.

Interface
To make the game more comprehensible and transparent, ideas are represented by icons that correspond to their effects.
Every time this effect is active or needed for display purposes (like in describing country modifiers or religious bonuses) you will see this icon. That way you can tell at a glance the impact your ideas are having on your national evolution.


Next week, we'll be back to talk more about .. lets see… something on the isles..

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Captain Gars

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A few (dozen) posts ago you confirmed that this is probably the most popular definition of strategy games, if not one you necessarily agree with.

No, that one was about the player not being able to influence a certain resource - and I still don't think a player needs to have influence over every resource in the game for it to qualify for a strategy game. Nor for it to include a way to transform one resource into another.

But as I said you can get what you want (to a certain point) indirectly by influencing the cost of certain actions in the game.
 
Apr 17, 2011
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Sweden would eventually get a slot open up as it's technology advances, and could easily then get the exploration idea.
Nope - count how many idea groups he mentioned! Exactly 8 - no matter how more he advanced his tech, no new slot would open up.
That said, I assume you probably won't need Exploration to send colonists (I wouldn't describe Russia as an "exploring" power), and by that point most of the map should be revealed anyway.
However, the part of the map interesting for colonisation is exactly the one discovered only recently, which hasn't yet spread to him (map spread is 50 years by default). Any part having spread to him is most likely already being colonized - not yet fully occupied, but having a mosaic-work of colonies is not a good position (neither a good sight).
 

unmerged(63836)

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Huh? I have no idea what you're talking about--are you suggesting that by 1700 Russia would already have all 8 Idea Groups filled?

Look at the screenshot--the "slots" for Idea Groups unlock at various tech levels. Given that the last one unlocks at "the enlightenment", I'd say most nations won't finalize their Idea Groups till near the end of the game.

Ah, missed that. I thought that ideas inside groups are tech-dependent - sorry. :eek:o

Still, fingers crossed for ability to remove idea group (with great difficulty/penalties and only in some rare cases) - Johan suggested that there's a chance.
 
Apr 17, 2011
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No, that one was about the player not being able to influence a certain resource - and I still don't think a player needs to have influence over every resource in the game for it to qualify for a strategy game. Nor for it to include a way to transform one resource into another.

But as I said you can get what you want (to a certain point) indirectly by influencing the cost of certain actions in the game.
The player's control over minute, relatively unimportant resources - inflation, base_tax - might slide. However, in EU4 monarch points will have a similarly central role as money. And now, could you possibly even think that the supply of money should come from only a single source, which is completely random? I sincerely doubt.
Probably you should think more of monarch points as money - for a few moments, think whether doing the same with money would be feasible, or would break the game? Because they seem to be of similar importance - techs, ideas, buildings, actions - all dependant on a mostly random source.

But as I replied, now having control over the effectiveness/efficiency of spending monarch points attenuates the problem quite a lot. And I'm looking forward to any information on these ways, whenever they will be made public.
 

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No, he's right - once you have eight idea groups that's it.

Of course, presumably that would mean you don't get your last idea group until pretty late in the game.
 

Wallain

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I still don't understand how you mean. If I unlock a group and by idea 1 and 2, but then don't meet the trigger for the third idea, then what? Is the rest of the idea group unreachable, or do you simply skip over then one you don't meet the requirement for...?
Yes. Then it blocks the advancement into that idea tree. As I would see it anyway. But as you noted earlier, then it will take too long to make compared to the gains (apparently, I would not know, I just trust your judgement).
 

WeissRaben

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What I'm curious to know is what moneys are for. You buy buildings with Monarch Points, techs with Monarch Points, fight inflation with Monarch Points - what's left for moneys, out of military manteinance? Colonies? Missionaries?
 

Evie HJ

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Some of these things (for example buildings) may cost both money and monarch points, the same way buildings in DW cost money and magistrates. We don't know.
 

Don_Quigleone

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Nope - count how many idea groups he mentioned! Exactly 8 - no matter how more he advanced his tech, no new slot would open up.
Yes, but in that case the last idea would be so late that he probably wouldn't have the time to set up viable colonies anyway. Furthermore, by then the map has probably already been entirely explored.

However, the part of the map interesting for colonisation is exactly the one discovered only recently, which hasn't yet spread to him (map spread is 50 years by default). Any part having spread to him is most likely already being colonized - not yet fully occupied, but having a mosaic-work of colonies is not a good position (neither a good sight).
If the game is correctly balanced, then the New world won't get colonised too quickly, giving a player a decent way in.
 

RaptorCommander

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Will France going from Royal France to Revolutionary France have the NI changed?
 

Birdjaguar

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Yes, but in that case the last idea would be so late that he probably wouldn't have the time to set up viable colonies anyway. Furthermore, by then the map has probably already been entirely explored.

If the game is correctly balanced, then the New world won't get colonised too quickly, giving a player a decent way in.
If the "New World" was randomized each game, exploration would take longer too since everyone would actually have to "discover" the best places to colonize.
 

Sun_Wu

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If the "New World" was randomized each game, exploration would take longer too since everyone would actually have to "discover" the best places to colonize.
This is a history game, not an alt-history game.
 

Jaol

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Will France going from Royal France to Revolutionary France have the NI changed?
I would imagine that would involve a TAG-change, which would likely mean a NI change.

I'm not sure how often we're going to see Revolutionary France, though. The game is going to end in the "late 18th century" which sounds like it's probably going to end before the major revolutions. When the inevitable timeline-extending DLC is released, there may be extra mechanics for idea changes during revolutions.
 

Birdjaguar

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Yes, but in real life history no one knew what was over the ocean. In recreating history perhaps we should try to recreate that uncertainty faced by the kings and queens of old and not rely on a "predetermined" knowledge base. It seems to me that recreating the historical uncertainty is more realistic for a strategy game than using a known world that allows preplanning. There is no challenge in sending explorers out in EU3. The only question is how many ships you lose before your colonization range catches up to your discoveries and whether or not Spain got there first.

If the new world is generated randomly, so many more strategic issues come into play. It would make a great option when you start a new game.
 

Talq

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If the "New World" was randomized each game, exploration would take longer too since everyone would actually have to "discover" the best places to colonize.

Randomising the new world would create massive technical challenges and would trash one of the key features of the EU series. Not happening (except as a separate game). Personally I dislike even the limited randomness they put in EU3 (most of the early colonizers wanted gold or lucrative trade goods, and if the island was 'mysteriously unsuitable' they would have moved elsewhere - why are you forcing me to complete the colony?, why are the carribean islands a hodgepodge of drek?) , and if they haven't yet discovered the issues it creates for their trade model, they soon will.

In any event, your idea is out of the scope of the thread.
 

unmerged(1823)

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OK, he added Quality, and Innovativeness then. Plus 1700 is around 2/3rds of the game - there's high chance that at least one level in each idea group would be taken, making Peter's reforms impossible under game mechanics.

I don't think its even theoretically possible for a russian player to be so good to be at least 50 years ahead in tech and also be as stupid as to not invest into the ideas he unlocks...

T
 

Sun_Wu

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Yes, but in real life history no one knew what was over the ocean. In recreating history perhaps we should try to recreate that uncertainty faced by the kings and queens of old and not rely on a "predetermined" knowledge base. It seems to me that recreating the historical uncertainty is more realistic for a strategy game than using a known world that allows preplanning. There is no challenge in sending explorers out in EU3. The only question is how many ships you lose before your colonization range catches up to your discoveries and whether or not Spain got there first.

If the new world is generated randomly, so many more strategic issues come into play. It would make a great option when you start a new game.
I don't actually explore like that, I only explore what is in range. That means less minors colonising the New World.
I don't think its even theoretically possible for a russian player to be so good to be at least 50 years ahead in tech and also be as stupid as to not invest into the ideas he unlocks...

T
Never underestimate human stupidity.
 
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