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Welcome to another developer diary for EU4. This time its about country customization - our efforts to make each country truly unique.

We added National Ideas as a feature to the series in EU3. It was a great concept, because of how it added visible differentiation to countries, and we were really happy with the results. In EU4, we have revitalized the idea system to more properly represent the differences between countries. Our new design for ideas is something that should be satisfactory to the historical crowd and to those who prefer more of an open-ended game.

Idea Groups
Instead of choosing national ideas when various techs are gained, you now have slots for idea groups. Idea groups consist of seven ideas and have a bonus for getting all of the ideas in a group. Picking ideas within a group has to be done sequentially – you can't leapfrog from an early idea in a group to a later one, but you can choose from any available group at any time. You are not forced to buy all ideas in one group before getting ideas from another group.

You have eight possible slots for ideagroups, which is given from various technlogy levels. What makes the game more interesting though, is that when you have selected an ideagroup, you are basically stuck with it. You have chosen the path for your nation. Investing into a full idea group takes quite a while, and can cost several decades worth of power.

There are sixteen possible idea groups you can choose from in EU4, each with seven different ideas in them, and a bonus. They are Plutocracy, Aristocracy, Innovativeness, Religion, Espionage, Diplomatic, Offensive, Defensive, Trade, Economic, Exploration, Naval, Quality, Quantity, Expansion & Administrative. Remember – you can only have a maximum of eight of these, so half of the idea groups will never come into play for your country. You veteran players may notice how many of these idea groups parallel the tracks that used to be domestic policy sliders.

Each of these idea groups use one specific monarch power for buying ideas., To increase in offensive ideas you will be using military power and exploration uses diplomatic power, for example.

National ideas
Every country also has something we call National Ideas, with the most important countries having a set of unique national ideas. Major countries including the Mamelukes and England have seven unique ideas granting them specific abilities. These ideas are not something you spend power on to buy, but, instead, you gain one of these ideas for free for every third idea you buy normally from an idea group.

Every nation also starts with a national tradition: two abilities which define the history and heritage of the country. As we see here, Sweden starts with 5% better infantry and 25% cheaper mercenaries. Countries also have what we call “national ambition”, which is a bonus given when you have gained all seven of your national ideas. This bonus is also unique for each country.

Interface
To make the game more comprehensible and transparent, ideas are represented by icons that correspond to their effects.
Every time this effect is active or needed for display purposes (like in describing country modifiers or religious bonuses) you will see this icon. That way you can tell at a glance the impact your ideas are having on your national evolution.


Next week, we'll be back to talk more about .. lets see… something on the isles..

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if some more important countries get more country-specific ideas than less important ones it bothers me if the lesser ones actually stay competitive...

everyone has specific ideas.. some countries share the same ideas though.
 
I like the idea of not being able to switch NI (and their equivalents), it should remove lots of old EU3 exploits and at the same time help immersion, I'm happy to see the game development going that direction.

National tradition is a nice addition, too.

I must confess I'm quite skeptic about the "unique national ideas", and above all the fact you get them for free; I'm afraid in MP it could cause several troubles. Nothing that could not be properly competitiveness-wise balanced however, I trust the devs have time and will to pull it off if they decided to insert that feature :).

Well, There are allways, possibilities to save-edit, if AI took NI group, when you were not around. But i agree this might be still problem, as if multi will be easier to play, because it will mean a lot more ppl will play multi >>> PPL with less exp will play >>> some ppl will not know how to edit save >>> Nawbs rageout.
 
I do think it would be best if we could somehow get rid of an idea. I agree that it shouldn't be easy and it shouldn't be encouraged, but it should potentially be possible.
 
I do think it would be best if we could somehow get rid of an idea. I agree that it shouldn't be easy and it shouldn't be encouraged, but it should potentially be possible.

I agree, I thought that was the plan, but it is just not available in Beta. However many new players may make the mistake of thinking that changing NI is easy. 99% of the time it should be a bad idea.
 
Great developer diary. I'm really looking forward to EU4 and hearing more about it next week!

A couple of questions:

1) How smart is the AI when it comes to picking ideas? If France becomes a landlocked country, will the AI still pick exploration/colonization ideas for it?
2) If you're stuck with the idea groups you choose, is there any mechanism to rearrange things for events like revolutions? It would be a little strange if revolutionary France was stuck with religion, aristocracy, etc.
 
That's exactly what you can do - shape your country. As England you can choose to completely avoid any idea groups connected with trade, exploration and naval warfare. What you can't do however is go down the historical path for England for 300 years and then suddenly throw all that away and decide your country has no tradition in trade, exploration or naval warfare.

I meant country specific ideas. They are 'given by God' in 1444 and are active until the end of the game, regardless of what's happening, right?

But on the topic of changing well established traditional policies - it happened a lot. That's what Peter the Great did, or what Ottomans did when they got rid of Janissaries. It wasn't gradual, slow process - it was a sudden shift. If there's only linear unchangeable way of developing ideas, then such system does not reflect myriad of sudden historical changes and reforms. Changing ideas should be a pain, but it shouldn't be impossible.
 
What's the word on having opposing groups at the same time? Can I have both quality and quantity? How about innovative and religion at the same time?
 
yeah, as you could argue that France in Napoleonic era was both quality AND quantity.

I see.:) On that note: Can revolutionary governments like Revolutionary France change the idea setup of the country?
 
Shouldn't ideas spread like religions or cultures? Shouldn't they be per province?
Let's say I play as Poland for 300 years, max my offensive ideas, probably have some country-specific ideas in that area. Let's say then suddenly Mazovia gains independence and from what I understood it doesn't get those ideas, at least Poland-specific, although same people (with the same ideas ;) ) live there as in the rest of my country.
Spreading of ideas would also simulate process taking a lot of time.
 
Well, despite what some people seem to fear, I'm sure the devs are capable of finding a nice balance.

I for one think this system sounds FANTASTIC. Really really looking forward to it. :D
 
I like the new system. Personally the fact that you can't change your ideas, adds to the immersion and gives a decision about ideas a lot of weight. I think a lot of us make plans about their campaigns, and I think we will now have some really interesting stuff to think about, even before the game starts.

To the topic of specific national traditions and ideas: I like this concept, but I have a qustion. Are these ideas and traditions based on the history before the szenario start OR are they base on the whole timeframe covered in EU 4, i.e. the swedisch mercenary discount is based on a historical fact between 1444 and 1800?
 
If I understand this system correctly, it is actually step back from Dometic Sliders. With sliders you could go in one direction for a 100 years, and then reverse your policies by going in different direction to adapt to dynamically changing situation. With this - it seems that once you unlocked and developed 'policy', you are stuck with it. This is really looking like design taken from modern MMORPGs, which is horrible.
 
If I understand this system correctly, it is actually step back from Dometic Sliders. With sliders you could go in one direction for a 100 years, and then reverse your policies by going in different direction to adapt to dynamically changing situation. With this - it seems that once you unlocked and developed 'policy', you are stuck with it. This is really looking like design taken from modern MMORPGs, which is horrible.

maybe more like social policy system from civ V... well they added there eventually the possibility of switching the exclusive trees, but not many players knew about this since UI did tried to hide it (and did it very effectively) not sure if by some later patch it was removed completely since I stopped playing 1 month after release and returned to civ IV.
 
Johan,

Words cannot measure my excitement for this game. Every development diary thus far fixes at least one problem we've had in multiplayer, introduces at least one thing we've wanted, and offers at least one new idea that seems just right. Best of all, each indicates what was clear in the first-that Paradox's design philosophy for EU IV happens to be exactly what I, at least, hoped it would be, keeping what was best in EU III while recognizing the only glaring weaknesses it has after HTTP/Divine Wind (countries feel generic and some strategic "choices" aren't really choices).

Today, it's DP sliders. We've had a problem with DP sliders in MP (as you know) from the beginning, which led to all sorts of rules (land slider locked at 5, punishing random events for high offensive and quality), but, in the end, we've never been able to make them a) worth something and good at differentiating countries, b) realistic (innovative is basically good, quality is basically good, centralization is basically good) and c) balanced (but hard to achieve without, again, becoming unrealistically, and blandly, equal). I know in the EU II days you folks tried to do this, too, and it may just be impossible. That said, I was apprehensive about jettisoning DP sliders altogether. The cookie-cutter countries (partly fixed by the gorgeous new map, too, as I've always thought EU III's original map was a significant part of the problem-nothing felt like it had any weight), without DPs, could well become the factions in Age of Empires or Civilization-just colors, flags, building sets, and perhaps one or two unique units and bonuses.

As well as being an excellent revision of the Idea system (one of the best, and in my view most under-utilized, probably because it's so hard to balance, features in EU III), this really blows the old DPs out of the water. Their progressive nature, connection to power, grouping (although I would like to see two branches in each group rather than making it inevitable that the whole group will be taken eventually and the same for each country), cost, etc., seem just right. And they should add more texture just by virtue of being Ideas rather than ticks on a line. I hope they are highly tethered to events, and that some idea groups make others more expensive (not impossible, just expensive-no bipolarity), and that groups are broken into branches for a little more decision-making and flavor, but even as is this is a huge improvement.

So, to recap, for week six:

1. Problem: DP sliders are not, and perhaps cannot be, balanced, which largely eliminates them as strategy and as flavor
2. Thing We've Wanted: DP "choices" that are not bipolar and come at more significant cost than a ~stabhit
3. New Idea That Seems Just Right: DPs are rolled into Idea Groups, only seven Idea Groups can be taken and they can't be changed, and there are fourteen Idea groups (so: strategy and flavor return, assuming the Groups are balanced, which will, of course, be tricky)

Great work.
 
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Well, shouldn't you be unable to choose some cause if you choose quality, shouldn't that delete "quantity" as an option, and innovative disables religious?
 
If I understand this system correctly, it is actually step back from Dometic Sliders. With sliders you could go in one direction for a 100 years, and then reverse your policies by going in different direction to adapt to dynamically changing situation. With this - it seems that once you unlocked and developed 'policy', you are stuck with it. This is really looking like design taken from modern MMORPGs, which is horrible.

Read Johan's post on the previous page; while the option to undo a choice does not exist yet, he is not ruling out the possibility of having that feature.
 
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