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Welcome to another development diary about Europa Universalis IV (EU4)! This time we're talking about the envoys you have at your disposal.

Throughout the Europa Universalis series, envoys have been resources you could spend to take certain actions in the game. “Envoy” is a word we actually use quite a lot internally, but probably not as much when describing the game to you all before. Still, you know what we mean. You would get a colonist and send him to make a colony. Get a missionary and send him to convert the heathen.

In Europa Universalis IV (EU4), prepare for the fact that the envoys and how they are used have undergone major changes. In Europa Universalis IV (EU4), envoys are not treated as resources and will, to a larger extent be persons at your disposal that take actions by your command. It's a subtle difference, but we'll clarify it shortly.
Envoys are still used to make alliances, create colonies or take spy actions, but it quite different ways.

First of all, as we mentioned in the last development diary, the spies and the magistrates has been cut with a sharp blade. You can read about the reasons here. (Link to previous devdiary)
We are absolutely keeping the diplomats, colonists, merchants and missionaries in EU4, however you will see that their behavior will change.

Monetary cost for envoys have been removed
In a move that may surprise some people, we have completely removed the monetary cost for the envoys. We've done this for a few reasons. .
First of all, removing the cost means that we can simulate the abilities of poorer or smaller countries being able to do things on the same scale as others. So a vast Portuguese colonial empire is more likely to happen. This was difficult to make possible in the old model - unless you gave country-specific price reductions or made the cost irrelevant for richer countries.

Secondly, removing the monetary cost removes the consistency issue that existed in Europa Universalis III (EU3) for newcomers to the games. Having some envoy actions (diplomacy, magistrates) cost nothing while the others required some cash could be confusing.

Finally, removing the monetary cost reduces the number of ways the AI has to screw up handling money. This means fewer potential ways for the player to exploit the AI and fewer drawbacks for the AI when it looks at its options. We hope this will make the game more challenging for you as a player.

Your number of envoys will be your limit
All of this adds up to the only limit on your envoy actions being the number of envoys you have at your disposal. Therefore you should not be limited by the amount of money you have. But it also means that if you have three diplomats, you can only have three diplomatic actions going at once. More on this shortly.

No connective between diplomats/colonists and leader recruitment
We have removed the connection between diplomats/colonists and the recruitment of leaders. It was never any actual restriction for the player and with the other changes it made sense to change it.

Envoys are now separate entities
The biggest change for you is the concept that envoys will no longer be a resource that accrues value that increases every month. All envoys are now entities that are assigned to a mission and sent on the mission, similar to how you give your court members tasks in Crusader Kings II. And, while the envoys are on their missions, they will not available to do anything else than the mission you have assigned to them. We feel that it will create more interesting strategic decisions for you as a player.

Because if you only have two diplomats, what will you do? Do you want both of your diplomats out on missions, or do you want to keep one at home?
Missions also take time to perform from start or end, so this naturally keeps your envoys occupied for a certain point of time, especially since their travel time is also taken into account.Envoys becomes less an object you need to spend and more active participants in your national policy.

The Diplomats
Some of the diplomats actions will still be instant, but quite a few will now be missions that the diplomats are assigned. Diplomats will also do some of the actions that spies did previously in EU3. We promise, we will go into detail on new aspects of the diplomats and their actions over several development diaries before the game releases, so stay with us!

The Missionaries
The missionaries will work as before, in that you give them a mission to convert a province to your chosen faith, and they have a chance every month to succeed. The only difference is that the amount of missionaries you will have at your disposal will limit the amount of activity you can do in parallel.
This hard limit on simultaneous conversions will make religious ideas a more important option for anyone that is interested in conquering a lot of people of another faith.

The Merchants & Colonists
The merchants and colonists will perform actions similar to EU3, but we'll go into detail regarding those later ;)

So when you use envoys in Europa Universalis IV (EU4), it will be more about strategic choices of where to use them and when to use them, instead of simply putting them to work as soon as you can afford them. In our testing so far, this has proven to be a rather dramatic change, and one that is greatly appreciated by the players. So we really hope you will enjoy envoys!
This was all for now, next week we will talk about the budget and the new economy system.

Here's a screenshot showing some new stuff... :)

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Kolonel

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Sounds like a change for the better! Keep up the good work. :)
 

Sandmann

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+1

My first impression of that map was "My god, it's covered in dots!" The double-thickness national borders, the trade routes... I know the aim of EU4 is to make the terrain map convey more information, but that screenshot is just too overwhelming. Maybe instead of the double national borders, you could have a single line combining all four colours? (Or still two-colour, but just one colour per country instead of two - so the Franco-Castillian border would be dotted blue and yellow, the Franco-Burgundian border blue and purple, and so on.)

+1.
 

Phelan

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Looks promising. Especially the time it takes for diplomatic actions. What about calling allies in a war? I hope it takes time for the diplomat from Genoa to reach his ally Russia, ask them to join war against the french agressor and get back to finally tell the player if the russian empire sents help or not. It would also limit the number of called allies in a war. No more instant war with whole Europe. And it would take really long and would be really costly (in terms of time) to sent your Diplomat to your cherokee ally to help agains France too.
 

Jaol

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How will envoy death/retirement be handled? For example, if one of my merchants dies or retires, will a new merchant become available immediately, or does it take some time to recruit a new envoy?
 

Te. Kenzo

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I like the idea that now evoy are what they are supposed to be, loyal men at your service with mission and not a quantity, a resource. I like also the idea of the distance, so now can be more natural see affairs beetween neighbors, and more less with far nations. (And also i'm glad to see an istria with more proper borders.:laugh:)
 

Checco

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I really like how sending a diplomatic envoy in India is quite different from sending one in France (if playing with Spain, i.e.).

I wonder if you will put risks of failure/assassination/death by sickness if the envoy travels in dangerous, enemy, or inhospitable places (but I reckon it could be perhaps unnecessary to the learning curve, and maybe random effects are not what you are aiming for).

My hope is that now that my beloved spies are gone T_T, diplomats will be able to cover the most strategic old spy actions (like contacting a rebel faction in enemy lands and fund it in the best 'Enemy of my Enemy is a friend' tradition, namely :) ).

P.S. It seems than the Istria's debate could be more or less settled, even if it isn't the final map ;)
 

RhoDaZZ

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Monetary cost for envoys have been removed
In a move that may surprise some people, we have completely removed the monetary cost for the envoys. We've done this for a few reasons. .
First of all, removing the cost means that we can simulate the abilities of poorer or smaller countries being able to do things on the same scale as others. So a vast Portuguese colonial empire is more likely to happen. This was difficult to make possible in the old model - unless you gave country-specific price reductions or made the cost irrelevant for richer countries.

I like this change, but the mention of the "vast Portugese colonial empire" worries me. Surely the ambition is not to make Portugal more unrealistic than it already was? You know, periodically colonizing half of the Americas and all...

I sincerely hope there will be some modelling of (especially coastal) trade stations this time around. A Portuguesesqe empire should be possible, namely one that relied more on trade and supply/demand than conquest and settlement of land.

Could the numbers of envoys available be made dependent on both technology(decisions, ideas, government) and population (or maybe number of provinces)?
Kind of like national focuses in Vicky apparently work.

I hope this is somewhere near the direction being taken, in addition to the other internal factors already mentioned. Would make a balance for the AI between less/more developed countries and small/large countries.

Will this is of course true the big problem of Paradox games is that after you've reached certain mass you become unbeatable. Big empires don't need more help.

Completely agree. I think a good source of inspiration for Paradox should be Dark Souls: A game that is (very) difficult can also be very fun and rewarding, without being clunky and unintuitive.

Finally, I hope much of this is moddable? Especially the limit on running conversion attempts.
 

Ruwaard

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Interesting new set up regarding envoys! :)

I like the screenshot of the map, especially the set up in the 'Austrian region', if only this set up of that region was used in CK2 too. :unsure:
Anyway back on topic again;), I like the screenshot of the map, which still is a work in progress. :)
 

Tornadoli

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Generally, the envoy system seems pretty good, but won't it mean a huge increase in micromanagement?

One thing I dislike though is the removal of costs. Isn't that a step back? Already, there are way too few things that cost in EU3, and after some time, money is almost irrelevant. The colonial system especially should not be cheaper, it should be far more expensive! It should be a huge investment that only the richest/most adventurous countries can do.
 

Jaol

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Will the envoy and advisor mechanics be linked in any way? Will advisors double as envoys, so for example, if you have a theologian advisor, you can send him as a missionary to a province? Or will you be able to promote envoys to advisors, so for example, you can use one of your merchant envoys as an merchant advisor at court?
 

pacja

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Disappointed that the missionary system hasn't been changed.

Me too, honestly. There is always a damn province that takes forever to convert just because you have bad luck with it, while the neighboring ones are converting like charms. I think it's a weak point of the game and I'd prefer a % bar filling over time, like V2 colonization.
 

unmerged(63836)

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Me too, honestly. There is always a damn province that takes forever to convert just because you have bad luck with it, while the neighboring ones are converting like charms. I think it's a weak point of the game and I'd prefer a % bar filling over time, like V2 colonization.

Even in civ 5 there are religious minorities and gradual conversion rates. Kind of weird that paradox game is more simplistic than civ in that regards. ;)
 

CivDav

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Oh I can't wait till the next diary, economy has always been my favourite in EU, besides I'm a mathematican so every time I wanted to conquer a province I started calculating if it would worth it and whatnot, cause I know most of the formulas used by the game. So please give many details in the next one, possibly some nice formulas :)

Also, if I understand correctly I think this change to the envoy system seems very interesting, I think it will be a good one. It will feel much more like you are actually running your country. For example when you have certain diplomats, like person X and Y, and you won't be like "oh okay I got 5 diplomats, lets send them out to do stuff so I won't go over the cap", it will be like "oh cool, X is back I need him to do this and that".
 

Alerias

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You could still scale it so that say an OPM would get 5 and 50-province Russia 10-15. Just not 50.

If you're designing EU4 that way I don't think I'll find it very fun, because one of my favorite parts of the game has always been to build up my country's infrastructure and wealth, and DW vanilla doesn't allow this, except perhaps with hundreds of universities and auto-magistrate scripts. Thankfully it was moddable, but it was also the wrong direction to go in.

Making buildings costly is one thing, but arbitrary caps aren't quite fun. Its pretty clear you're aiming to tie building construction to monarchs' ADM ratings, which could prove to be the worse kind of arbitrary cap sadly :( Lets hope time proves me right.

Now to return to this DD, I'm hoping that there are country size modifiers (both positive and negative) that affect the amount of diplomats/missionaries/merchants you have at your disposal. It doesnt need to scale -perfectly- but it should at least scale -some-. And be moddable, ofc.

As for advisor costs, I have another idea that could be nice. Make these guys free by default but allow the player to spend extra to have more. Sort of a voluntary "Agent maintenance cost" thing. If you accept to pay this tax, then you can have one extra agent for the category youre spending into, and potentially allow the player to spend extra on each kind. Gives something to drain extra money to.
 
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