Europa Universalis IV - Development Diary 20th of September 2022 - Post Release & Norse Easter Egg

[SAmaster]

Here's an alternative suggestion:

Most of what we know about modern Norse myths comes from the writings of Icelandic Poet Snorri Snorrelson (not sure if I got the spelling right), who was writing in I believe the 1400's, with the main goal of trying to foster a shared sense of scandinavian culture to foster better political ties between iceland and the mainland, but the secondary goal of preserving legends that were getting lost to time.

Similar to how in CK2 you have the option to read the hellenic classic and return to greek paganism, perhaps an option to go norse could be the following-
-play as iceland
-embraced the renaissance (a renewed look into classical works of the pagan era)
-employ a philosopher or artist

Maybe this unlocks a decision for the ruler of the nation to convert to norse. This wouldn't be too overpowered, as you would still have to convert your provinces from Catholicism to Norse, while still being Icleand which is one of the weakest nations and will have a very hard time fighting off annexation.

Alternatively, perhaps you could tie it into the reformation mechanic. The Catholic Church has gotten so corrupt that people are now shopping for alternative religions, that some even think going back to Norse would be the right call. I say this because it would jive well with the religious wars mechaninc in that era, but also because the idea of having a Norse center of reformation would be hilarious.

Also maybe for enhanced flavor there could be a Norse Runestones monument somewhere on the map to give bonuses to Norse nations. What I defintely think you should add though is the ability for norse nations to raid coasts. I mean it's pretty obvious, what with the viking thing. It'd buff the religion seriously making it a lot more fun to play, and add a lot of historical roleplaying. On that note- maybe another path could be you are playing as Pirate Republic Gotland, and during the Age of Reformation, if you elect a ruler that is crazy enough, they manage to convert to Norse. This makes a bit more sense since pirates tend to be a crazier bunch, and don't have the strongest ties with the Catholic Church to begin with.

Also while discussing paganism- a quick fix if you would to random new worlds. Random New Worlds don't include any of the new monuments added, which seriously nerfs any tags playing in them, as well as making colonization less interesting. I'm sure you guys can quickly code in monuments to be set to spawn in certain types of regions, maybe with random development levels too.

 

[SAmaster]

Tbh, the animism is more of a catch-all term for all these pagan religions who weren't widespread enough, unlike Tengri or Totemist who were very widespread at the time, so animism is very different when practiced by Burmese tribe and Polynesian kingdom. If anything, it's more of a sign to give all these "animisms" their own variations of worship, with their own mechanics.

Personally I wouldn't mind reintroducing shamanism back to a few corner of the maps, if only to make animism less 'catch-all'.

On the note of adding flavor though, I was thinking that there should be a buff to the pagan faiths to increase tolerance of heretics. Probably in the form of a decision similar to the vision-quest. The pagan faiths of the world were pretty famous for their ability to look at other religions and see other peoples gods as their own gods in funny hats. A big buff to tolerance of heretics (I would label simply as Pagan Syncretism) would buff the pagan faiths massively (who are otherwise still kinda lacking on the mechanics front, even for religions that got flavor) by allowing them an easier time expanding into other pagan provices. They'd probably still need to convert (or if the mechanic is open to their faith, syncretize) faiths of other religious groups such as islam, meaning it wouldn't be too op.

But I think it makes realworld sense if the Pagan religions all got a +2 or +3 tolerance of heretics.

On a similar note, I think similar syncretization might work for the Dharmic and Eastren religious groups, but there I'm not as sure how to implement it. There's already a bunch of mechanics for how eastern religious can use buddhist monuments, but right now I feel it's a bit clunky, but I don't know the best way to approach it. Perhaps the Brahmin estate can be given a privilege to ignore the religious unity of eastern or pagan provinces, that might be a bit much, but the Brahmins have very few privileges anyway.

 

[Yhekal]

If you're referring to Ludi et Historia, it's because he is faking his "guides" using debug_achievements console command. There are multiple examples of this.

Can't remember really. Doesn't matter as I misinterpreted the code, as @grotaclas pointed out. Norse outcome of the event is indeed commented out.

 

[Gurluas]

Here's an alternative suggestion:

Most of what we know about modern Norse myths comes from the writings of Icelandic Poet Snorri Snorrelson (not sure if I got the spelling right), who was writing in I believe the 1400's, with the main goal of trying to foster a shared sense of scandinavian culture to foster better political ties between iceland and the mainland, but the secondary goal of preserving legends that were getting lost to time.

Similar to how in CK2 you have the option to read the hellenic classic and return to greek paganism, perhaps an option to go norse could be the following-
-play as iceland
-embraced the renaissance (a renewed look into classical works of the pagan era)
-employ a philosopher or artist

Maybe this unlocks a decision for the ruler of the nation to convert to norse. This wouldn't be too overpowered, as you would still have to convert your provinces from Catholicism to Norse, while still being Icleand which is one of the weakest nations and will have a very hard time fighting off annexation.

Alternatively, perhaps you could tie it into the reformation mechanic. The Catholic Church has gotten so corrupt that people are now shopping for alternative religions, that some even think going back to Norse would be the right call. I say this because it would jive well with the religious wars mechaninc in that era, but also because the idea of having a Norse center of reformation would be hilarious.

Also maybe for enhanced flavor there could be a Norse Runestones monument somewhere on the map to give bonuses to Norse nations. What I defintely think you should add though is the ability for norse nations to raid coasts. I mean it's pretty obvious, what with the viking thing. It'd buff the religion seriously making it a lot more fun to play, and add a lot of historical roleplaying. On that note- maybe another path could be you are playing as Pirate Republic Gotland, and during the Age of Reformation, if you elect a ruler that is crazy enough, they manage to convert to Norse. This makes a bit more sense since pirates tend to be a crazier bunch, and don't have the strongest ties with the Catholic Church to begin with.

Also while discussing paganism- a quick fix if you would to random new worlds. Random New Worlds don't include any of the new monuments added, which seriously nerfs any tags playing in them, as well as making colonization less interesting. I'm sure you guys can quickly code in monuments to be set to spawn in certain types of regions, maybe with random development levels too.

Genuinely love this idea!

Especially since connecting it to Iceland gives that tag a purpose.

 

[currylambchop]

Which is precisely why I think there should be a way to revive it that isn't incumbent on collapsing to rebels or starting as Yazd. I'm well aware it's still one of the larger religions globally.

Oh, I thought you meant that you wanted Zoroastrian to be reduced to an Easter egg lol

seems that it was just a misunderstanding

 

[omega20056]

They not only existed, but were the majority in at least Samogitia.

I suspected there were probably more than the article I was reading suggested, but I couldn't confirm it. It really is a shame they got nothing considering the focus of the DLC and the fact a basic Google search can confirm they still existed. From what others have said, the Sami religion was also still practised in 1444, but they're just generic animists.

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

I suspected there were probably more than the article I was reading suggested, but I couldn't confirm it. It really is a shame they got nothing considering the focus of the DLC and the fact a basic Google search can confirm they still existed. From what others have said, the Sami religion was also still practised in 1444, but they're just generic animists.

It was also widespread among the local people of Latvia. Not sure, if they were still a majority in 1444.

 

[Yhekal]

View attachment 879492​

In the current game files, this event has been commented out (and this even rather early during development). While we did our research for the old Norse faith we had to accept that Iceland and Greenland had a much closer tie to the Church than mainland Scandinavia, which is why our first iteration of getting access to Norse had to be scrapped - it just wouldn’t have felt natural enough. So if you want to become Norse right now then doing the Norwegian Greenland mission won’t be your best bet. However, we’re always open to suggestions from the community, so maybe you can change our minds on this…

Love of my life, you've hurt me
You've broken the code
And now you leave it
Love of my life, can't you see?
Bring it back, bring it back
Don't take it away from me
Because you don't know
What it means to me...

 

[Sapa Inca]

Not a fan of Norse content, the idea of pagan countries in Europe is fine but a Norse revival during Age of Discovery is a fantasy fanfic, the entire event chain remembers the supernatural events in CK2.
EU4 is full of fantasy fanfics anyway, so, Norse content could work fine but in this case this is not fine because there existed more immersive ways to make pagan countries in Europe playable.

More immersive and thematical ways to make pagan countries in Europe a viable possibility would be:
1- Pagan provinces in Sapmi land.
2- A event chain to revive Romuva faith in the Baltics, this faith makes much more sense to have remnants in 1444 when compared with the old Norse faith.

Considering that Sapmi and Baltics were regions inside the scope of Lions of the North but instead of pagan content about these 2 areas we get instead a Norse fanfic feels like a wasted opportunty.

 

[Gurluas]

Not a fan of Norse content, the idea of pagan countries in Europe is fine but a Norse revival during Age of Discovery is a fantasy fanfic, the entire event chain remembers the supernatural events in CK2.
EU4 is full of fantasy fanfics anyway, so, Norse content could work fine but in this case this is not fine because there existed more immersive ways to make pagan countries in Europe playable.

More immersive and thematical ways to make pagan countries in Europe a viable possibility would be:
1- Pagan provinces in Sapmi land.
2- A event chain to revive Romuva faith in the Baltics, this faith makes much more sense to have remnants in 1444 when compared with the old Norse faith.

Considering that Sapmi and Baltics were regions inside the scope of Lions of the North but instead of pagan content about these 2 areas we get instead a Norse fanfic feels like a wasted opportunty.

I agree with you but not at the expense of the Norse. I'd definitely like to have seem Sami and Romuva in the pack too though.

 

[Rullino]

There is a lot of wonky English in these events, based on the screenshots in this dev diary, and I've noticed an increase in errors in newer content compared to pre-Leviathan. Could the dev team please have an editor proofread their text before it goes into the game? I'm really enjoying the content since Leviathan's release, but it sometimes stands out in a bad way compared to the older events, descriptions, and tooltips, which rarely had any errors.

True, they should have a proofreading team to ensure that there are no mistakes, just look at the tribal reform that makes you into a theocracy, they didn't fix it, or at least not in the wiki.

 

[Rullino]

If you're referring to Ludi et Historia, it's because he is faking his "guides" using debug_achievements console command. There are multiple examples of this.

He doesn't fake his guides anymore, he literally tries console commands and it doesn't work, even before loading the game he checks the Ironman option, simply because he did it nearly a year ago that doesn't mean he's still doing it, you probably haven't seen his latest videos.

 

[grotaclas]

He doesn't fake his guides anymore, he literally tries console commands and it doesn't work, even before loading the game he checks the Ironman option, simply because he did it nearly a year ago that doesn't mean he's still doing it, you probably haven't seen his latest videos.

It is still possible to activate console commands after the game start with the help of external tools. And he must have done some kind of manipulation to get the disabled event flavor_nor.34 (finding a norse settlement in greenland)

 

[themrspartan]

He doesn't fake his guides anymore, he literally tries console commands and it doesn't work, even before loading the game he checks the Ironman option, simply because he did it nearly a year ago that doesn't mean he's still doing it, you probably haven't seen his latest videos.

He literally just now got caught cheating this Norse event in and claiming that he just restarted a lot for it. Playing with achievements enabled is not even possible with this event on because it changes the checksum. And no it isn't because he got an early access build, it was disabled long before that and other people who got the build confirm it's disabled.

 

[Rullino]

It is still possible to activate console commands after the game start with the help of external tools. And he must have done some kind of manipulation to get the disabled event flavor_nor.34 (finding a norse settlement in greenland)

What do you mean by external tools if he shows it everytime and there's no proof that he cheated, he got Norse rebels from the mission where he had to discover Greenland, it's not part of the event chain where you need Bergslagen, either 5/5/5, Sinner or Scholar trait and the excommunication and restraint of appeals, so he didn't cheat or manipulate anything, he might've used ALT+F4 for it but thats to demonstrate his strategy and it won't be confirmed until Lambax.x or some other professional EU4 Youtuber will prove whether my argument was false or true.

 

[Rullino]

He literally just now got caught cheating this Norse event in and claiming that he just restarted a lot for it. Playing with achievements enabled is not even possible with this event on because it changes the checksum. And no it isn't because he got an early access build, it was disabled long before that and other people who got the build confirm it's disabled.

It could be disabled because moving a save from your main device to another PC might make it impossible to unlock achievement which makes it impossible to get World Conquest or One Faith with just a save someone else sent you, and most achievements are still achievable even after ALT+F4ing several times, maybe it depends on the software but I might be wrong.

 

[themrspartan]

What do you mean by external tools if he shows it everytime and there's no proof that he cheated, he got Norse rebels from the mission where he had to discover Greenland, it's not part of the event chain where you need Bergslagen, either 5/5/5, Sinner or Scholar trait and the excommunication and restraint of appeals, so he didn't cheat or manipulate anything, he might've used ALT+F4 for it but thats to demonstrate his strategy and it won't be confirmed until Lambax.x or some other professional EU4 Youtuber will prove whether my argument was false or true.

Read the post you're commenting on. It is the Greenland event that is disabled, manually, by the developers. It cannot happen without cheating. Ergo he cheated. It is impossible to deny.

 

[grotaclas]

What do you mean by external tools if he shows it everytime and there's no proof that he cheated, he got Norse rebels from the mission where he had to discover Greenland, it's not part of the event chain where you need Bergslagen, either 5/5/5, Sinner or Scholar trait and the excommunication and restraint of appeals, so he didn't cheat or manipulate anything, he might've used ALT+F4 for it but thats to demonstrate his strategy and it won't be confirmed until Lambax.x or some other professional EU4 Youtuber will prove whether my argument was false or true.

I meant external tools which modify eu4.exe or the eu4 code in the RAM to enable the console in an ironman game. It doesn't mean anything that he shows at the beginning of the video that console commands don't work, because they could have been enabled later. And the video is edited so we don't even know if this was the same campaign.
You can look at the event code yourself to see that the option to trigger flavor_nor.34 is disabled (AKA "commented out"). And the developers confirmed in this very dev diary that it has been disabled for a long time. And even if it would have been enabled, he could not have gotten it randomly, because the randomness in the event is broken and you always get the same outcome. This is something you could also test for yourself by trying it many times. If the randomness would be working, you should get flavor_nor.35 (the event in which you find a prospering catholic colony) in about 10% of the cases.

 

[currylambchop]

It was also widespread among the local people of Latvia. Not sure, if they were still a majority in 1444.

Maybe add a Few animist province in Latvia and Sami lands

 

[Rullino]

Maybe add a Few animist province in Latvia and Sami lands

They should probably add Suomenskuo and Romuva religions instead of animism.