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Europa Universalis IV - 8 June 2021 - New monuments chosen for 1.31.5

Good news everyone! Today we’ll be presenting the new monuments that shall be introduced in 1.31.5 (coming soon, for those who wonder).

But first, let me introduce myself. I’m Pavía, and I’ve been a forumite for more than 15 years before joining Paradox Tinto team, a couple months ago. Apart from being in the Forums, I’ve spent most of this time playing Paradox games for thousands of hours, since the first Europa Universalis. Oh, and I also hold a Ph.D. in Medieval History, but that’s probably the less important thing in my current CV.

That said, onto the monuments. First I’ll present to you the ones that were most voted among the community:

The first is El Escorial, the famous palace-monastery built at the orders of king Philip II in the outskirts of Madrid:

monastery_of_el_escorial.jpg


Modifiers:

Tier 1Tier 2Tier 3
Global modifiers:
−0.01 Monthly autonomy change
+5% Governing Capacity
Global modifiers:
−0.025 Monthly autonomy change
+10% Governing Capacity
+10% Global Tariffs
Global modifiers:
−0.05 Monthly autonomy change
+15% Governing Capacity
+20% Global Tariffs

The second one is the Holy City of Jerusalem. As it’s known, this city is a sacred place for Judaism, Christianism and Islam, and that religious crossroad is portrayed:

old_city_jerusalem.jpg


Modifiers:

Tier 1Tier 2Tier 3
Area modifiers:
+1% Local missionary strength


Global modifiers:
+0.1 Yearly Prestige
+1% Missionary strength against Heretics
Area modifiers:
+2% Local missionary strength


Global modifiers:
+0.25 Yearly Prestige
+2% Missionary strength against Heretics
Area modifiers:
+3% Local missionary strength


Global modifiers:
+0.5 Yearly Prestige
+1 Missionary
+3% Missionary strength against Heretics

Finally, the last one most voted was Cerro Rico del Potosí, the richest silver mine in South America, and a place that once hosted the most populous city in the region.

cerro_pico_potosi.jpg


Modifiers:

Tier 1Tier 2Tier 3
Province modifiers:
+1 Local Goods Produced


Area modifiers:
+5% Local Goods Produced Modifier


Global modifiers:
-0.1% Interest
Province modifiers:
+2 Local Goods Produced


Area modifiers:
+10% Local Goods Produced Modifier


Global modifiers:
-0.25% Interest
Province modifiers:
+3 Local Goods Produced


Area modifiers:
+20% Local Goods Produced Modifier


Global modifiers:
-0.5% Interest

But, apart from that, the Tinto team also voted for three more internally:

The first is the Kaaba in Mecca, the holiest site for Muslims worldwide, and the place were the Hajj pilgrimage, one of the Five Pillars of Islam, is made.

kaaba.jpg


Modifiers:

Tier 1Tier 2Tier 3
Global modifiers:
+0.1 Yearly Prestige
+10% Religious Unity
Global modifiers:
+0.25 Yearly Prestige
+15% Religious Unity
-5% War score cost vs other religions
Global modifiers:
+0.5 Yearly Prestige
+20% Religious Unity
-10% War score cost vs other religions

Next one is the Great Mosque of Djenné, one of the worship places built during the times of the Mali Empire in a very unique adobe brick style.

djenne.jpg


Modifiers:

Tier 1Tier 2Tier 3
Global modifiers:
+0.1 Monthly Piety
+1% Missionary strength against Heathens
Global modifiers:
+0.2 Monthly Piety
+2% Missionary strength against Heathens
+1 Missionary
Global modifiers:
+0.3 Monthly Piety
+3% Missionary strength against Heathens
+1 Missionary

Last, but not least, is the Imperial City of Hue, built by the Nguyen dynasty as a symbol for a unified Dai Viet.

imperial_city_hue.jpg


Modifiers:

Tier 1Tier 2Tier 3
Global modifiers:
+0.25 Yearly harmony increase
+0.5 Yearly legitimacy
Global modifiers:
+0.33 Yearly harmony increase
−10% State maintenance
−5% Minimum autonomy in territories
+1 Yearly legitimacy
Global modifiers:
+0.5 Yearly harmony increase
−20% State maintenance
−10% Minimum autonomy in territories
+1 Yearly legitimacy

Finally, we got a lot of feedback from the community, and we also think that it’s a good idea to replace one of the current monuments for other more interesting choice, and reworking it, as this was pretty requested:

That is the Belém Tower replacing the Pena Palace in Lisbon, as we think that it’s a symbol of the city since the Age of Discoveries.

belem_tower.jpg


Modifiers:

Tier 1Tier 2Tier 3
Province modifiers:
+5 Local trade power


Area modifiers:
+15% Local manpower modifier


Global modifiers:
+5% Global trade power
Province modifiers:
+10 Local trade power


Area modifiers:
+25% Local manpower modifier


Global modifiers:
+10% Global trade power
+10% National sailors
Province modifiers:
+15 Local trade power


Area modifiers:
+50% Local manpower modifier


Global modifiers:
+15% Global trade power
+25% National sailors

About the modifiers, take into account that this is work in progress, so both modifiers and values may be reviewed and changed, depending on testing and feedback received.

We hope that you like the new monuments chosen by both the community and the team, and that you also enjoy the wonderful work made by our artists, while playing with them in 1.31.5. See you!
 
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"...needn't be that high on the monument priority list"
"...suggestions for Korea in our 'long list'"

And obviously Korean monuments aren't going take precedence over German, Italian or other major European or Chinese monuments.

I don't think you quite comprehend the fact that there is no conflict in statements to 'cope' with here.
Because your arbritrary opinion means anything...?

I never said Korea should be number one on the list, I merely stated that a monument would do fine for them.

Go reply to every single comment on this thread on how Monument A doesn't need to be added because Monument B takes precedence.
 
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Pavía

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What are the requirements to get the bonunses for these monuments? For instance, do you have to have a certain culture or a religion etc for these to work?

Well, I didn't put them because the post would be too blobby IMHO, but they will be:

- No requirements: Potosí and Belém Tower.
- Culture requirements: El Escorial (Iberian group).
- Religious: Muslim (Kaaba and Djenné), Muslim, Christian or Jewish (Jerusalem), Confucian and Mahayana (Hue).

So if I understand this correctly these new monuments are a nerf to Christian and Muslim religious playthroughs? Since there are less missionaries and it is now very costly to get a worse modifier than what was once free?
Not necessarily a nerf, but a way of playing differently. And not all players do wide/WC runs or MP, where this kind of 'meta' is more important.
Is upgrading Potosí going to be cheaper than the current upgrade costs? Because with the current upgrade costs of 1000, 3500 and 7000, the higher tiers are not really worth it:
Assuming a rather favorable situation of 20 production development(=4 goods produced) in the two gold production provinces in the area (Potosí and Quillacas) and prosperity in the state, the incomes for each tier are: (ignoring the goods produced increase in the other two non-gold provinces, because that accounts for less than 0.1 ducats per month)
Tier​
goods produced​
goods produced modifiers​
Monthly income​
monthly income increase​
years to pay back the upgrade cost
(includes upgrade time)​
0​
4​
25 %​
16.6​
1​
5​
30 %​
21.6​
5​
26.6​
2​
6​
35 %​
27​
5.3​
74.6​
3​
7​
45 %​
33.8​
6.8​
125.3​

26 years to pay back the investment for tier 1 is quite good, but 74 years for tier 2 is not so good and 125 years for tier 3 is very bad. For comparison building a temple in a province with 3 tax development gives 0.1 ducats per month and pays for itself in 83 years. And that is something I almost never do, because there are usually much better investments in the game.
Monument upgrades costs are going to be lowered in 1.31.5, so the RoI for Potosí and other monuments will be better.
So no update today? No 1.31.5 beta available?
A week ago you said "soon" so when we will get access to beta version?
I'm going to paraphrase @Johan on this: A patch is never late! Nor is it ever early. It arrives precisely when I mean it to do!

So release date is still: soon.
Does forming Rome (which converts your primary culture to Roman) mean your primary-culture monuments go inactive?
Most of the culture requirements work if you have that culture as accepted, so that would depend on the monument.
 
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wobarch

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@Pavía @Johan it would be still be cool as community to know if there are still dev diaries at tuesdays 10:00 (MESZ) time as before?
 
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Most of the culture requirements work if you have that culture as accepted, so that would depend on the monument.

All of the culture monuments require the province to have the original culture. I.e Versailles require Paris to be French culture group, or Parthenon requires the province's culture to be Greek, so if you form Rome as France all of a sudden your monuments go inactive. It just seems like a slap in the face since forming Rome is one of the most difficult prospects of a European nation, and now you lose access to a monument you invested so much into.
 

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All of the culture monuments require the province to have the original culture. I.e Versailles require Paris to be French culture group, or Parthenon requires the province's culture to be Greek, so if you form Rome as France all of a sudden your monuments go inactive. It just seems like a slap in the face since forming Rome is one of the most difficult prospects of a European nation, and now you lose access to a monument you invested so much into.
While I am not opposed to the monument allowing for Roman culture - does it really matter that much once you have formed Rome, which is essentially an "I win, game over" button? ;)
 
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While I am not opposed to the monument allowing for Roman culture - does it really matter that much once you have formed Rome, which is essentially an "I win, game over" button? ;)

What kind of reasoning is that? Should we disable extra merchants from trade companies or Papal Influence buttons or other random features once you form Rome because you're the #1 Great Power?
 
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So if I understand this correctly these new monuments are a nerf to Christian and Muslim religious playthroughs? Since there are less missionaries and it is now very costly to get a worse modifier than what was once free?
So, I was thinking about this, but it's not really a nerf, or at least a very small one.

Both Muslims and Christians can still get the missionary from Jersulam, but they will need to upgrade the monument to lvl 3 (this is the only nerf I see). They do get +1 missionary strength towards heretics now, so that's quite decent. It ofsets the missionary strength we lose from Pena Palace.

Medina triggered modifier is unchanged for Christians and for Muslims there actually isn't a province modifier, but a 'triggered modifier' ('Custodian of the holy cities'). Not sure if we lose that as Muslim players. Pavia didn't say so, so it probably stays.

However, for Muslims there is now an additional missionary from the Mosque of Jenne, with an additional +3% missionary strength versus Heathens, which is very powerful.

So all in all, I'm looking at a net buff here, but the bonuses are more geographically spread out, which in my opinion is a good thing.
 
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What kind of reasoning is that? Should we disable extra merchants from trade companies or Papal Influence buttons or other random features once you form Rome because you're the #1 Great Power?
No, we shouldn't. My (half-joking) point was just that it isn't that much of a concern - because personally, if I have formed Rome (which I have done exactly one time with EU4, playing Byzantium) the game is over because I wouldn't see any more goal to reach in that game. I am aware that there are players who enjoy doing a WC, and I am fine with them enjoying that.
Of course you shouldn't lose use game features if you have formed Rome and want to play on as it, and you should not lose the use of your monuments :)
 

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I mean it was better intact than one thinks, but theater or some concerts are all that could be held there. I would concentrate on building either build in eu4 timeframe or whose importance was in that time period. Buildings wich were important for millitary, economic or cultural reasons and or a national symbol.

I think that most on Java for example are more out of a world wonder guide of today, same with the mausoleum of ephesoss wich makes as much sense it was a quarry for locals and the knights.
Focusing on relevant wonders would be better I guess for regions like the new world or africa one can overlook that, because of how little there was or was left standing.
 
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why does the Holy City of Jerusalem give missionary strength against heretic and not just a flat-out increase? As a Christian who is trying to form Jerusalem, it wouldn't be worthwhile to upgrade it as everyone in the area is Muslim and as a Judaic country it would be a useless modifier as they have no heresy religions.
And as an Islamic nation it would work if you are either Ibadi or Shia. But as the majority are Sunni in the region it doesn't seem like a worthwhile monument when Kaaba is an option.

Just curious was this intentional or did you forget MSH doesn't work on Islam as a Christian or Jewish country?
 
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why does the Holy City of Jerusalem give missionary strength against heretic and not just a flat-out increase? As a Christian who is trying to form Jerusalem, it wouldn't be worthwhile to upgrade it as everyone in the area is Muslim and as a Judaic country it would be a useless modifier as they have no heresy religions.
And as an Islamic nation it would work if you are either Ibadi or Shia. But as the majority are Sunni in the region it doesn't seem like a worthwhile monument when Kaaba is an option.

Just curious was this intentional or did you forget MSH doesn't work on Islam as a Christian or Jewish country?
That's how it currently works though: https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Triggered_modifiers#The_Conquest_of_Jerusalem

As it stands it's just a modifier reworked in a monument. It now costs us money, but it also gives +1% strength.
 
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So release date is still: soon.

Take your time , a patch is to change some behavior of the game, it is not like a fix which allow the game to run properly,


Since Patience is a good virtue, I will cite the loading screen :

"You don't have to take all of your enemy's provinces in one war. There is plenty of time for more wars later."
 
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All of the culture monuments require the province to have the original culture. I.e Versailles require Paris to be French culture group, or Parthenon requires the province's culture to be Greek, so if you form Rome as France all of a sudden your monuments go inactive. It just seems like a slap in the face since forming Rome is one of the most difficult prospects of a European nation, and now you lose access to a monument you invested so much into.
Oh, now I see what you were saying. We'll think about that; as I said, we're already analyzing how requirements should work in the next versions of the game.
why does the Holy City of Jerusalem give missionary strength against heretic and not just a flat-out increase? As a Christian who is trying to form Jerusalem, it wouldn't be worthwhile to upgrade it as everyone in the area is Muslim and as a Judaic country it would be a useless modifier as they have no heresy religions.
And as an Islamic nation it would work if you are either Ibadi or Shia. But as the majority are Sunni in the region it doesn't seem like a worthwhile monument when Kaaba is an option.

Just curious was this intentional or did you forget MSH doesn't work on Islam as a Christian or Jewish country?
Well, we wanted to work that way; for converting provinces around Jerusalem you already have the missionary area modifier. Coupled with Great Mosque of Djenné, what Muslim countries would have is a strong conversion modifier for every other confession, instead of pilling up with same kind of modifiers.
Take your time , a patch is to change some behavior of the game, it is not like a fix which allow the game to run properly,


Since Patience is a good virtue, I will cite the loading screen :

"You don't have to take all of your enemy's provinces in one war. There is plenty of time for more wars later."
Thanks for your patience. As I said, a patch comes only in due time - and it was today, as you may already have noticed. ;)

Next week I'm taking a (well deserved) vacation time, so please post any concern, doubt or comment into the 1.31.5 beta patch thread, so my colleagues and CM's could properly answer to you there.
 
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Razing the monuments would be good. For example, If Mecca conquered by the Christians, they should able to raze Kaaba to get some permanent or temporary modifier. Especially if the conqueror is a crusader state.
Maybe not raze it but change it into christian bonus. That could be interesting and why not also when muslims take Rome, they could change Saint-Pierre into mosque and make muslim bonus
 

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Aww, Marienburg/Malbork Castle didn't make it in. Hope it'll be added in the next wave!