• Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
Welcome to another Europa Universalis IV development diary. Everything is going fine with the development of Leviathan, as we are working on polishing content at the moment.

We have talked about some major improvements to playing tall in previous diaries, with possibilities of stacking manufactories and concentrating development. Today we will talk about something that synergies nicely with both these features.

Centralizing a State

The final new Playing-Tall option is the ability to Centralize a State. This action reduces the administrative cost of a state by as much as the value of 20 development points.

Centralizing States costs 100 Government Reform Progress points and takes five years to complete.

This interaction is available both through the state interface and through the macrobuilder.
eu4_26.png


Never Mothball
A small thing that might make the top 3 of some peoples requested lists, and may be completely ignored by others is a small toggle for individual forts to never mothball.

We are adding a small checkbox in the province interface that if enabled, that fort will never mothball when you mothball every fort in your country from the military screen. This is something you may want to use when you may want to save money on lots of forts, but never risk it with the important forts next to France.
eu4_25.png


Canal changes
With the new monument mechanics, we moved the old great projects system to be using the new monument code internally as well, which gives a few benefits, in that you can upgrade them as well. Each upgrade takes about 10 years further, and about 1000 gold each. We are also making the canals available from an earlier technology as well, from admin tech 26 to admin tech 22.

Previously the canals, besides opening the paths, gave a +20 trade power to the location, now instead they are giving these.

  • Tier 0 +10 Trade Power to Location, and +1% Trade Power to the Controller.
  • Tier 1 +20 Trade Power to Location, and +2% Trade Power to the Controller.
  • Tier 2 +30 Trade Power to Location, and +3% Trade Power to the Controller.
  • Tier 3 +50 Trade Power to Location, and +5% Trade Power to the Controller.




Next week we’ll be back and talk about colonial nations.
 

Astalic

Second Lieutenant
30 Badges
May 6, 2018
118
153
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
100 gov reform is a lot for -20 GC (expending is better especially on the short term) but you can tie some nice temporary bonus : absolutism, crownland or something about more developement efficiency/cost reduction... With a drastic monthly reduction in autonomy in the state, you are centralizing after all.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:

intelstyle

Sergeant
51 Badges
Apr 19, 2020
73
147
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
Question.
Wouldn't it make more sense to reduce Development Cost of that state if that's a playing tall feature, by lets say 15-20% ?
Because right now it's a late game going wide feature.
Reading through thread after initial disappointment- please no more dev cost modifiers!!!

MP dev meta is tiresome, and I’d prefer for some dev cost modifiers to be removed- along with buffing admin dev clicks or nerfing diplo/mil (prefer buffs to admin)

im tired of exploiting tax and devving with birds and swords ..

Edit : Not to mention, dev cost reduction has a cap already
 
Last edited:
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:

newtlord

Major
39 Badges
Dec 28, 2011
710
961
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
You are out of the loop, buddy. The first Hegemony diary was an experiment to see how the community would react. Long story short, they weren't expecting a backlash of that proportion and had to do damage control ASAP.

It's not as though the version of Hegemony that we got is anything to write home about, for that matter.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Katrex

Sergeant
66 Badges
Jan 4, 2017
86
160
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
This.

A dramatic design change for eu4 would be insanely risky right now from both a codebase and a player perspective. If you have basically no players, like we did with Imperator after release, you can take huge gambles.
Ok here is how to make a tall mechanic.

1 a mechanic that doesn’t care about dev cost. Eg reusable holy orders. Anything that relies on Dev means it’s better to get more low dev provinces and dev them to 10 or 20 than dev your heartland to 30 or 40.

So you need a mechanic that doesn’t work based on fevcost. The adulusia culture flipping holy order exploit is a perfect example of a situation you don’t need to take more land. Every click is the same regardless of how tall you go.

So you clearly don’t need to overhaul the game situations already exist that promote tall play.

if You want tall and wide play to both be viable then you need two different mechanics and you need the optimisations for the mechanics to have different paths eg. Quant eco is optimal for wide play. Where you get as many low dev provinces as possible and then dev for 5 mp per click. Once you get above 10 to 20 dev in a province you stop. Where as you may have an expand development Cooldown modifier to min max for tall play

Alternatively to different mechanics ( like holy orders) you can instead have very strong bonuses that that make up for high monarch point cost. Examples might be building upgrades require a certain amount of dev. Eg Baracks 10 dev, level 2 baracks 20 dev level 3 30 etc.

I’d also consider not allowing manufactures to be built in low dev provincesmaybe only in 30 dev provinces. That would make tall play more viable also

Another consideration is a mechanic that removes the dev cost malus. Eg At the cost of 100 of each mp removes dev cost malus up to x dev. If you’re playing wide it’s not worth using since 300 mp could end up being 100 dev clicks. But it’s wirth using for tall especially with those extra buildings.

It should be balanced to be worse than wide but not much worse since concentrated countries are easier to manage. I would assume that the average wide player devs for ten mp per click so you’d want to balance talk pkay for about 15 or 20 mp per click depending on building strength primary culture advantages etc.
 
  • 2
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Kapi96

Major
75 Badges
Dec 3, 2015
673
796
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
Centralising a state sounds like a terrible feature. You're simply much better off using your reform points to expand your administration. That only costs 20 reform points for 20 governing cap, not 100. Yeah it increases each time you do it, but you'd have to do it an asbolute tonne of times in order for centralising to be worthwhile instead. ie. unless you play beyond the end date, or somehow earn governing reform at like 2x the regular rate it's a feature you should never use.
 
  • 3
Reactions:

EarlKonrad

General
30 Badges
Jun 18, 2018
2.344
4.349
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Knights of Honor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
It's not as though the version of Hegemony that we got is anything to write home about, for that matter.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. Hegemony looks and feels like an unfinished mechanic.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Katrex

Sergeant
66 Badges
Jan 4, 2017
86
160
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Also on a side note while we’re at it can we just cut trade value/goods in half?theres way too much income and tax should be better relative speaking
 
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:

LSF

Captain
89 Badges
Dec 7, 2010
391
922
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Iron Cross
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • The Kings Crusade
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • For The Glory
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Divine Wind
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
I pushed the "like" button just because of the new mothball feature.

The "centralize state" is just useless.

At least it is not damaging like the stealing-development peace deal...
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

DerGrößteRitter

Captain
75 Badges
Apr 22, 2018
383
171
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
Its the beginning of March, not the beginning of April Johan....
 
  • 7Haha
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Thundrag

Corporal
56 Badges
Oct 31, 2016
39
5
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Magicka
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
It would of been more interesting if centralizing the state rather than government capacity changed the states development cost to think its 20 dev less than normal or decreased the dev cost penalty by a % as eventually the incremental increase to dev cost makes better to just play a wide nation and dev bomb many provinces rather than a concentrated & well developed nation. Add in some other support like advanced buildings requiring a certain amount of development threshholds in the province or state
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Idle America

Captain
34 Badges
May 27, 2013
307
506
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Island Bound
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
But will the Kiel Canal finally fit with its actual location, instead of just an ugly straight line?
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:

FrogCrusher

Major
41 Badges
Feb 22, 2016
583
703
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
Ok here is how to make a tall mechanic.

1 a mechanic that doesn’t care about dev cost. Eg reusable holy orders. Anything that relies on Dev means it’s better to get more low dev provinces and dev them to 10 or 20 than dev your heartland to 30 or 40.

So you need a mechanic that doesn’t work based on fevcost. The adulusia culture flipping holy order exploit is a perfect example of a situation you don’t need to take more land. Every click is the same regardless of how tall you go.

So you clearly don’t need to overhaul the game situations already exist that promote tall play.

if You want tall and wide play to both be viable then you need two different mechanics and you need the optimisations for the mechanics to have different paths eg. Quant eco is optimal for wide play. Where you get as many low dev provinces as possible and then dev for 5 mp per click. Once you get above 10 to 20 dev in a province you stop. Where as you may have an expand development Cooldown modifier to min max for tall play

Alternatively to different mechanics ( like holy orders) you can instead have very strong bonuses that that make up for high monarch point cost. Examples might be building upgrades require a certain amount of dev. Eg Baracks 10 dev, level 2 baracks 20 dev level 3 30 etc.

I’d also consider not allowing manufactures to be built in low dev provincesmaybe only in 30 dev provinces. That would make tall play more viable also

Another consideration is a mechanic that removes the dev cost malus. Eg At the cost of 100 of each mp removes dev cost malus up to x dev. If you’re playing wide it’s not worth using since 300 mp could end up being 100 dev clicks. But it’s wirth using for tall especially with those extra buildings.

It should be balanced to be worse than wide but not much worse since concentrated countries are easier to manage. I would assume that the average wide player devs for ten mp per click so you’d want to balance talk pkay for about 15 or 20 mp per click depending on building strength primary culture advantages etc.
I disagree. The question is not about viable or not. It is already acknowledged that tall is viable. The multiplayer meta is already tall oriented. It's about to be boring or not. In SP, tall is boring because you're thinking and acting when the game is paused and after unpausing you have to stare the screen speed fiving. All of the things you are proposing don't change anything to that. It's even worse because if wide player can't have money anymore because they can build manufactories only in 30dev provinces, they can't manage wars so they will do nothing (because there is nothing to do in this game in SP when unpaused and not at war) but using mana point to have more money to wage future wars.
Honestly, half the posts in this thread, while having some good ideas, never address the question of fun and boring. The reason why corruption from territories was so badly received is that it was slowing down the game for no reason hence we should have to wait doing nothing before moving on.
It is not a question of viability or historical accuracy or real life simulation, it's about having our brains in tense condition to have enjoyable game.
 
  • 6
  • 3Like
Reactions:

Vaximillian

UNKNOWN STRING WANTED
30 Badges
May 17, 2008
6.633
3.209
  • 500k Club
  • 200k Club
  • Deus Vult
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. Hegemony looks and feels like an unfinished mechanic.
reminds me of another of Johan’s pet features

sailors
 
  • 4Haha
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:

IndigoRage

Lt. General
78 Badges
Sep 9, 2012
1.425
3.420
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
reminds me of another of Johan’s pet features

sailors
Disagree somewhat. There should be more you can do with them, but I definitely have been bottlenecked by them from time to time. I never minded them when Mare Nostrum dropped, as many did.
 
  • 5Like
  • 1Haha
  • 1
Reactions:

Idle America

Captain
34 Badges
May 27, 2013
307
506
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Island Bound
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
It's not as though the version of Hegemony that we got is anything to write home about, for that matter.
Seriously. By the time anyone can even consider claiming one of them, the game's long over.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:

AllTheWayUP

Recruit
43 Badges
Sep 26, 2019
8
4
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
Reading through thread after initial disappointment- please no more dev cost modifiers!!!

MP dev meta is tiresome, and I’d prefer for some dev cost modifiers to be removed- along with buffing admin dev clicks or nerfing diplo/mil (prefer buffs to admin)

im tired of exploiting tax and devving with birds and swords ..

Edit : Not to mention, dev cost reduction has a cap already
I feel the same. As far as I remember, I didn't read anything about changes to the Idea Groups / Policies. In MP i'm feeling pushed to rush the first 3 Ideas Quantity/Economic/Quality, otherwise I will not be competitive. There are no real alternatives to the DEV Meta (except if you are playing colonization), which makes it sometimes a bit boring, since many idea groups are completely unusable. Also it would be great if there would be some balance changes to the different religions, so not everyone has to flip to orthodox & Shinto.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

jdavis86

Lt. General
44 Badges
Jun 21, 2010
1.553
769
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines
I like Johan a lot and I want him and the team to succeed, but this expansion is looking like a hard pass tbh.
 
  • 14Like
  • 1
Reactions:

MAROQ

Private
48 Badges
Sep 12, 2016
11
3
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
I have all DLC in EU4, i don't play game since Emperor update bcs Gov Cap is so dumb when you trying to get achievments, you have really small amount of time for some of them and you are heavy punished for rush land to get achievment. Old state system was not perfect but it cost you only money. Sometimes i feel like you forgot how hard is play this game for newbie players and you add another magic button in DLC what does same what expand adm. just worse XD

Guys i love to buy your games but i'm disappointed a bit. When i played Tall as Holland then NL i had problem with get reforms bcs of high autonomy and not doing trade companies, with every next patch game is only playable if you play by default meta setting from multiplayer otherwise you lose too much compare to old patches like 1.15-1.21 xD
It's kinda sad
 
  • 1
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Spartakus

I'm Spartakus
49 Badges
Feb 22, 2018
930
2.631
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • BATTLETECH - Initiate of the Order
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
This.

A dramatic design change for eu4 would be insanely risky right now from both a codebase and a player perspective. If you have basically no players, like we did with Imperator after release, you can take huge gambles.
As someone who basically stopped playing Stellaris after 2.2 I cannot overemphasize how much I agree with this policy!
 
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions: