EU4: El Dorado - Development Diary 1: Nahuatl, Exploration & Treaty of Tordesillas | Page 17

TheBoozehammer · Jan 23, 2015

IIWW said:
Authonomy? Sorties?
There is nice chance that AI would be able to handle it properly, but the concerns aren't unjustified.

True, but this is something that will literally lead to those regions not functioning (although I suppose the same could be said about autonomy, but I think the AI is just bad at it, not literally incapable of interacting with it).

Mikalos · Jan 23, 2015

DmUa said:
- not sure i like this yet another "REFORMORDIE111" approach.

why shouldnt it be there?

its the same thing as ck2 and reforming the pagan religions, the cross and the moon are nire oersuassiuve than your disorganized pagan ass

Freudia · Jan 23, 2015

Mikalos said:
why shouldnt it be there?

its the same thing as ck2 and reforming the pagan religions, the cross and the moon are nire oersuassiuve than your disorganized pagan ass

It's not even straight reform or die. You can play just fine as an unreformed Nahuatl nation, provided you have enough vassals to stave off Doom. It's more just "you have this odd gameplay, and you can get bonuses, keep your flavor, and get to keep your religion for reforming it!"

It's a lot better executed than horde 'reform or die' approach, that's for sure.

TheBoozehammer · Jan 23, 2015

Freudia said:
It's not even straight reform or die. You can play just fine as an unreformed Nahuatl nation, provided you have enough vassals to stave off Doom. It's more just "you have this odd gameplay, and you can get bonuses, keep your flavor, and get to keep your religion for reforming it!"

It's a lot better executed than horde 'reform or die' approach, that's for sure.

While I definitely think this is better than hordes (who should get and expansion sometime) I highly doubt you could survive the Europeans without reforming.

hashinshin · Jan 23, 2015

A Landy said:
What if the Pope decides to colonize the new world? Does the treaty not apply to the Papal State at that point?

As the pope I claim America. Yes. All of it.

TheMeInTeam · Jan 23, 2015

hashinshin said:
As the pope I claim America. Yes. All of it.

I guess we get to find out if the Pope is a narcissist, or wallows in self hate.

nalivayko · Jan 23, 2015

Curiouser said:
And so continues the game notion that contact with western countries is needed for 'reform'. So preposterous.

Yet, in case of Mesoamericans, too true. No guns, no steel, no germs

Freudia · Jan 23, 2015

TheBoozehammer said:
While I definitely think this is better than hordes (who should get and expansion sometime) I highly doubt you could survive the Europeans without reforming.

You apparently underestimate the power of boats.

Regardless, the point is that your incentive to reforming your religion is that you get bonuses, not that you don't get killed. Not losing all your flavor is a big plus, too.

Golladan · Jan 23, 2015

Freudia said:
You can play just fine as an unreformed Nahuatl nation, provided you have enough vassals to stave off Doom.

I'm not so sure you can do that without eventually hitting a wall.

MarkS00N · Jan 23, 2015

Re-read the first post that the tick is yearly which isn't bad...
I thought its increase per month, but now that it is per year, I think Aztec can grow big enough before DOOM happen...

My question would be, now this expansion going to improve Nahuatl, Mayan, and Inti, is there any plan to improve Totemist religion?
Rather sad to see this religion still lack distinct flavor when its neighbor religions will get a lot this expansion...

chris_dftba · Jan 23, 2015

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but:

[video=youtube;sY278K4ljWs]http://youtu.be/sY278K4ljWs[/video]

j4freeman · Jan 23, 2015

Incompetent said:
I think the moral of the story here is that white people are magical and we need to obtain their powers for our gods by sacrificing them. Huitzilopochtli will be invincible once we've offered him up some Spanish soldiers and priests.

Regarding the Doom clock, is there going to be any implementation of the 52-year cycle?

That worked quite well. The Mexica thought the same thing after La Noche Triste, tried it, and smallpox swept through Tenochtitlan soon afterward. Such is the power of biohazardous religious practices.

chrnno · Jan 23, 2015

Freudia said:
You apparently underestimate the power of boats.

Indeed, due to how smaller the gap in naval is you can rule the seas given a bit of effort and planning. Or just enough money to throw at it really. Even bonus to ship durability, combat ability, three times morale and three designs ahead can be overcome by throwing a fleet six times the number though admittedly they still wiped out a third of my fleet which is by far the highest losses I have ever seen a winner take in a naval battle.

Well at least for those that all the ships fought from near the beginning, have seen some pretty high losses on both sides for battles where fleets kept joining and changing who is winning just before the stackwipe finishes.

ringhloth · Jan 23, 2015

MarkS00N said:
Re-read the first post that the tick is yearly which isn't bad...
I thought its increase per month, but now that it is per year, I think Aztec can grow big enough before DOOM happen...

My question would be, now this expansion going to improve Nahuatl, Mayan, and Inti, is there any plan to improve Totemist religion?
Rather sad to see this religion still lack distinct flavor when its neighbor religions will get a lot this expansion...

It seems like the tick improves by +1 per province owned. As the Aztecs, there's definitely a limit to how much you could grow without reforming. By the time you get 50, 60 provinces, you'd probably have to be constantly at war, and constantly crushing your enemies. Not likely considering you can't westernize.

Thagnus · Jan 23, 2015

So Wiz, will we be able to pass those Nahuatl reforms in random order, similar to CoP North American tribes ideas or will they be passed in order displayed on the screen?

Jokolytic · Jan 23, 2015

nalivayko said:
Yet, in case of Mesoamericans, too true. No guns, no steel, no germs

Please don't mention that horrendous high-school revisionist propaganda.

j4freeman · Jan 23, 2015

Jokolytic said:
Please don't mention that horrendous high-school revisionist propaganda.

The Aztecs had guns and steel when the Spanish showed up?

WeissRaben · Jan 23, 2015

Jokolytic said:
Please don't mention that horrendous high-school revisionist propaganda.

While the book, per se, is quite simplistic and shouldn't be quoted as truth, in THIS specific case contact with the Eurasians would have been needed, indeed - while they could have filled the gap on their own, it would have taken quite a bit more than EU4 covers. The Americas were peeking in the Bronze Age, as far as military technology goes, just when the Spanish arrived; getting to early steel without any Eurasian hint would have required at the very least another millennium (which is being very generous to the Americas - in Eurasia, two millennia were needed). Now, the question is: shouldn't they be able to modernize out of any Afroeurasian contact? Pretty much, yeah.

Lowcast · Jan 23, 2015

penco said:
That's why this mechanic is so silly. Because if IRL the Aztecs didn't do enough blood sacrifice, maybe some peasants would be pissed at the ruler and think he's bad, but otherwise nothing would happen! It's not like the Nahuatl gods are real.

They might as well introduce an event for Christian nations where Jesus swoops in and establishes the Millennial Kingdom. That's about how historical this thing is.

The problem there is that the player outside of the game knows the gods aren't real so you'd have no compunction to engage in flower wars and sacrifice your vassals if there was no consequence. While the doom penalties are certainly extremely harsh, it's necessary to ensure that players behave in such a way that recreates the divisions and troubles that faced the Mesoamerican world.

The reformation bonuses make it seem worth it, however. Nahuatl could easily be one of the strongest religions in the game and the prospect of colonizing Europe with your bloodthirsty hordes sounds awesome. Just rename the religion to Teotl please - naming it 'Nahuatl' is like naming Catholicism 'Latin' and Islam 'Arabic.'

Akronom · Jan 23, 2015

Johan said:
Nahuatl has +10% Land Morale and -2 unrest as its bonuses.

So random, Johan, so random.

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