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EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of May 2017

Hello everyone and welcome to this developed diary on setup changes in the Greater Russian region!

For the upcoming 1.22 patch we’ve had another look at modern Russia and Belarus. This is a region that has received attention previously but we feel that it was not up to the level of detail we have become accustomed to in other parts of Europe and that it could not properly reflect the lay of the land in the region in 1444.

The Russian Principalities in 1444:

In 1444 Russia was still divided into a number of principalities, in many ways this is the result of the constant interference from the Golden Horde. The Khans had defeated and divided the early Russian principalities and have come to not only exact tribute from the remaining states here, but have also acted as king-makers and guarantors of princely power.
As the game opens however the Golden Horde is going through a rough couple of decades with external pressure and internal struggles, historically ending in its general breakup into a number of much weaker successor states.
The Great Horde in our start date is what remains of the core of the Golden Horde but others, such as Crimea, would in time come to conquer and attempt to usurp their role as the overlord of the Russian states.
What this means for the Russians is that while horde intervention is still a factor in local politics, they have now been given some time to grow and thrive. As one of the main collectors of tribute for the Khans, Muscovy is now in the process of building a strong power base and has already used a combination of bribes and coercion to secure control over land of the minor princes in the region.


eu4_30.jpg


As you can see, in 1.22 we have chosen to greatly expand the number of provinces in this region. This allows for a greater degree of detail in the warfare in this region both between the principalities themselves and between the Russians and the Tatar hordes.
We have also taken the opportunity once again to adjust the development of the Russian region a bit, increasing it slightly to allow the states here to better make their mark upon the world.
In 1.22 one of the things this means is that some of the states we know and love are no longer the same. Ryazan is now a 4 province state and Yarloslavl and Tver are now 2 and 3 provinces respectively.

Muscovy:
First of the Russian principalities we have Muscovy itself. In 1444 this is already the dominant native power and in 1.22 it is the overlord of no less than five smaller principalities. The expanded number of provinces ensures that all is not lost simply from one battle or one siege, there is now room to move around when Kazan, the Great Horde or Lithuania comes knocking.
The greater detail has also allowed us to better show a number of centers of regional importance, giving it more of the historical depth that we have come to expect of other regions where we have overhauled the map.

Among the changes to the setup for Muscovy is also a revision of their ideas. Muscovite Ideas are now separate from those you get for forming Russia and currently look like this:

Muscovite Ideas:

Traditions:
Diplomatic Relations +1
Shock Damage Dealt +10%

1. Gatherers of Tribute: National Tax Income Modifier: +10%
2. Legacy of Dmitriy Donskoi: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.5
3. Seat of Metropolitan Bishop: Missionary Strength +1%, Tolerance of True Faith +1
4. Pomestnoe Voisko: Land Morale +10%
5. Strength of the Boyars: Stability Cost Modifier -20%
6. Zasechnaya Cherta: Fort Maintenance -20%
7. Descendants of the Byzantine Emperors: Diplomatic Reputation +1

Ambition:
Land Force Limit Modifier +33%

The decision to form Russia will in turn give a new set of ideas should you choose to abandon your old Principality ideas.

Russian Ideas:

Traditions:
National Manpower Modifier: +33%
Core-Creation Cost: -10%

Land of the Rus: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Siberian Frontier: Colonists: +1
Russian Artillery Yard: Artillery Cost: -10%, Artillery Combat Ability +10%
Life-Long Conscription: Land Force Limit Modifier: +50%
Abolish the Mestnichestvo: Yearly Corruption: -0.1
The Table of Ranks: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.25, Advisor Cost: -10%
Broaden the Curriculum of the Cadet Corps: +5% Land Morale, 10% less fire damage received

Ambition:
Yearly Legitimacy: +1

New Playable Countries:
In EU in general and in Russia in particular there’s always a decision to be made of what is to be a province with high autonomy and, what should be a subject state or even independent. Our game enforces strict differences depending on what you pick but in reality it was quite possible in many cases to be somewhere in between.
In the case of Russia in 1444, Muscovy is in possession much land that really belongs to a minor principality that they have somehow acquired (often by simply buying the land from the princes in control of it) or that is ruled by a prince that has moved to the court in Moscow, allowing the Muscovite's to administrate it for him. In 1.22 we have taken another look at how we want the Muscovite lands to be portrayed and added two new vassal tags:

The first is the small state of Rostov, between Tver and Yaroslavl. This principality was in many ways quite firmly under Muscovite control ever since its princes had sold off half of the lands to Moscow, but Rostov would not be integrated entirely until 1474.
Rostov has a long and interesting history and would continue to play an important part in Russian politics every now and then, even as a part of a greater Russian state. We therefore thought it would be an interesting addition to the mix of states you can play in 1444.

Rostov Ideas:

Traditions:
Provincial Trade Power Modifier: +10%
Idea Cost: -10%

Re-Unification of Rostov: Goods Produced Modifier: +10%
Ancient Heritage: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Ecclesiastical Center: Tolerance of True Faith: +2
Entrepot of Russia: Trade Efficiency: +10%
Rostov Architecture: Construction Cost: -10%
Political Influence: Diplomats: +1
Rostov Enamel: Production Efficiency: +10%

Ambition:
Diplomatic Reputation: +1

The second new state we have added is one in the north, right at the border with Novgorod. The principality of Beloozero was never a metropolis and is long past its glory days in 1444. Ruled by Muscovite princes it would formally be incorporated directly into Muscovy in 1486 and its nobles would mostly make their mark upon the world within the frames of the Russian Empire. It's position is an interesting one however and our game history might unfold differently.

Beloozero Ideas:

Traditions:
Trade Efficiency: +10%
Infantry Combat Ability: +10%

Martial Heritage: Cavalry Cost: -10%
Monastic Traditions: Yearly Prestige: +1
Strengthen Local Lineages: Yearly Legitimacy: +1
Northern Trade: Domestic Trade Power: +25%
Officers of Beloozero: Yearly Army Tradition +0.5
Boreal Warfare: Attrition for Enemies: +1
Scientific Patronage: Technology Cost: -5%

Ambition:
Goods Produced Modifier +10%

Novgorod:

eu4_28.jpg


In the far north we have broken up some of Novgorod’s bigger provinces. Novgorod's domains always presented something of a difficulty to portray in that many of these locations had little in terms of population, yet contributed to the overall wealth of the Republic.
It also gives Novgorod some much needed strategic depth when fighting Muscovy to the south.

Lithuania:

eu4_31.jpg


Lithuania has long been a region in need of greater detail. In 1.22 we have broken up and reshaped many of their provinces, especially in the northeast. When adding new provinces we have tried to accommodate important regional centers, the internal administrative divisions of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth as well as the gradual expansion of Muscovy and later Russia into Belarus and the Ukraine.
As this was a highly contested region for much of the period covered by the game this should should hopefully make the region a lot more interesting to play in. It should also allow for a more engaging conquest for strong neighboring states...

That was all for today!
Next week’s developer diary will be written by Johan and may or may not touch on more things that could impact the region...
 
Last edited:

brifbates

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Pretty much everyone on this thread has been vocal about Russian ideas being sucky... And I'm sure there is still quite a bit of time before the patch is released. I think it is highly probable that PDX will change them again.

Hard to say, people have been complaining about them pretty much since release and they've not been improved. Then this iteration that is clearly even worse was put forth. At least the Muscovy ideas aren't trash tier.
 

Steel_atlas

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Hard to say, people have been complaining about them pretty much since release and they've not been improved. Then this iteration that is clearly even worse was put forth. At least the Muscovy ideas aren't trash tier.

9/10 games the Russians are always the dominate powers in Eastern Europe.

Sweden is in a bad position with no easy way to grow, and Poland/Commonwealth is wedged between the Ottos/Russia and Sweden withe HRE blocking expansion westward.
 

hashinshin

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9/10 games the Russians are always the dominate powers in Eastern Europe.

Sweden is in a bad position with no easy way to grow, and Poland/Commonwealth is wedged between the Ottos/Russia and Sweden withe HRE blocking expansion westward.
In multiplayer when you actually use your countries Russia is basically ... not so fun.
 

holyvigil

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Russia is nerfed a little but not by a lot.

10% manpower recovery speed down to 10% aggresive expansion reduction.
15% coring down to 10% coring
20% inf down to 10% art.
10% prod efficiency down to .1 yearly corruption

In my games manpower recovery speed is much more important than aggressive expansion. and I rarely ever have corruption problems due to being ahead of time in tech taking away all that corruption.
 

OldmansHQ

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WOOOHOOO!!! Muscovy is my favourite country to play, and eastern-northen Europe are my favourite regions. Three-province Tver and two-province Yaroslavl bring a joyful tear to my eye ;). I sincerely hope that Siberia gets and upgrade too. I think that it's pretty sad as it is. It should be at least as good of an expansion route as colonising the Americas. It should be something worth fighting over.
An addendum to that post: Not a fan of the new ideas sets for Muscovy and Russia. Muscovite ideas seem faily potent, I agree with others, don't see why anyone would swap them for Russian ones. But I really don't like that they lost manpower and CCR :(, it completely changes them. Not to mention that the CCR was reduced to 10% as if 15% wasn't very low to begin with. 10% is a joke. At this point I think it should be replaced by another bonus if they don't want to give Russia any relevant CCR.
 
Last edited:

kcraal

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The previous Russian ideas were in the top tier, even though they lacked quality, but now you take quantity away from them.
It will be too much nerf! I can't understand.. they'll eventually be funching-bag for PLC or Ottomans.
 

rattatta

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Muscovite ideas are great whilst Russian ideas are crap. Maybe buff core creating cost to -25? Otherwise great stuff! One of my favorite countries to play is muscovy/russia. Will 1.22 be part of a DLC or free patch?
 

loup99

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The region of Russia has now been given justice on the map with these new provinces! Amazing how you keep doing these massive province overhauls with each update.
 

sprites

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This is amazing! simply surviving and eventually Russia as Novgorod won't be such a feat with a few more depth ...
 

Phoenix VII

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Muscovy ideas are great but Russia is getting yet another nerf. It feels like the devs are always looking for ways to nerf Russia. At least let Russia keep the +0.5 yearly army tradition and give them a military bonus of some kind such as a bonus to shock damage or artillery combat ability or something along those lines. AI Russia already becomes the Ottoman's and/or Ming's punching bag in more games than not once their borders reach and this'll just make it worse. And please change that +1 yearly legitimacy to something else...anything would be better.

Something has to be wrong when the country that forms Russia has better national ideas than Russia itself. Who'd take Russian ideas at this point except to roleplay?
 
Last edited:

Tavior

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It's pretty easy to get institutions via Genoa.

Assuming Genoa hasn't been ate alive by Crimea/Ottoman before you snake your way past PLC and Golden Horde and hundred of other problems. Like Novgorod invasion failing or some other such issues.

Not a really a viable solution for players. EVEN less so true for AI. You will get far MORE benefit from higher tax/good production/manpower pool in Moscow to force renaissance and maybe Neva for colonialism. Why neva? As muscovy or any other rus culture tag after forming Russia. You get a decision to move your capital to Neva and get 6+ tax so if Neva was already at 14 tax? *evil grin*

Alternative if you actually insist on going down to Genoa and wait for institution? You might get it or not at all. I like my method better. The biggest problem is "teaching" AI how to force institution when they are VERY far behind in everything.
 

IvanTheTerrible

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This has buggered me a lot. Why would you name the province of Vilnius Vilna, when controlled by the Lithuanians, who have Lithuanian as their main culture? I mean, sure, just for the sake of it, but at least change it when playing with dynamic province names. Makes no sense whatsoever. Especially since I remember when it used to be called Vilnius (with dynamic province names) and now you removed it and left the Polish version for some reason...

Polish version should be 'Wilno' so no idea why they made that change anyway...

As everybody, very disappointed with new Russian Ideas, very weak in compared with other Great Powers and remember we're speaking about one of the most powerful empires during the timeline of the game follows...
 

Jaeugh

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As creator of some small mods for Russian region fixes (and citizen of Russian region) I can say that these changes are good, but minimal. Better than nothing.
 

FB5813

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Something has to be wrong when the country that forms Russia has better national ideas than Russia itself. Who'd take Russian ideas at this point except to roleplay?

I probably would for the RCC, the colonist, more troops and manpower. Makes them probably better than Muscovite ideas for SP, although the extra relation slot and dip rep Muscovy get is pretty damn good too.

That said, I'm sure Russia will get some nice government bonuses to smooth out the manpower nerf and other combat oddities.

Not commenting on MP here because I don't play it, but I can see how their ideas still suck for that given their neighbours.
 
Last edited:

Repsow

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If you really want to make two others ideas set maybe do somethink like: Muscovite:high manpower, CCC and missionary strenght, Russia: more help with colonisation, making professional army (art ability ? and morale maybe ? and just +25% manpower), national unrest and somethink with institution.