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EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of May 2017

Hello everyone and welcome to this developed diary on setup changes in the Greater Russian region!

For the upcoming 1.22 patch we’ve had another look at modern Russia and Belarus. This is a region that has received attention previously but we feel that it was not up to the level of detail we have become accustomed to in other parts of Europe and that it could not properly reflect the lay of the land in the region in 1444.

The Russian Principalities in 1444:

In 1444 Russia was still divided into a number of principalities, in many ways this is the result of the constant interference from the Golden Horde. The Khans had defeated and divided the early Russian principalities and have come to not only exact tribute from the remaining states here, but have also acted as king-makers and guarantors of princely power.
As the game opens however the Golden Horde is going through a rough couple of decades with external pressure and internal struggles, historically ending in its general breakup into a number of much weaker successor states.
The Great Horde in our start date is what remains of the core of the Golden Horde but others, such as Crimea, would in time come to conquer and attempt to usurp their role as the overlord of the Russian states.
What this means for the Russians is that while horde intervention is still a factor in local politics, they have now been given some time to grow and thrive. As one of the main collectors of tribute for the Khans, Muscovy is now in the process of building a strong power base and has already used a combination of bribes and coercion to secure control over land of the minor princes in the region.


eu4_30.jpg


As you can see, in 1.22 we have chosen to greatly expand the number of provinces in this region. This allows for a greater degree of detail in the warfare in this region both between the principalities themselves and between the Russians and the Tatar hordes.
We have also taken the opportunity once again to adjust the development of the Russian region a bit, increasing it slightly to allow the states here to better make their mark upon the world.
In 1.22 one of the things this means is that some of the states we know and love are no longer the same. Ryazan is now a 4 province state and Yarloslavl and Tver are now 2 and 3 provinces respectively.

Muscovy:
First of the Russian principalities we have Muscovy itself. In 1444 this is already the dominant native power and in 1.22 it is the overlord of no less than five smaller principalities. The expanded number of provinces ensures that all is not lost simply from one battle or one siege, there is now room to move around when Kazan, the Great Horde or Lithuania comes knocking.
The greater detail has also allowed us to better show a number of centers of regional importance, giving it more of the historical depth that we have come to expect of other regions where we have overhauled the map.

Among the changes to the setup for Muscovy is also a revision of their ideas. Muscovite Ideas are now separate from those you get for forming Russia and currently look like this:

Muscovite Ideas:

Traditions:
Diplomatic Relations +1
Shock Damage Dealt +10%

1. Gatherers of Tribute: National Tax Income Modifier: +10%
2. Legacy of Dmitriy Donskoi: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.5
3. Seat of Metropolitan Bishop: Missionary Strength +1%, Tolerance of True Faith +1
4. Pomestnoe Voisko: Land Morale +10%
5. Strength of the Boyars: Stability Cost Modifier -20%
6. Zasechnaya Cherta: Fort Maintenance -20%
7. Descendants of the Byzantine Emperors: Diplomatic Reputation +1

Ambition:
Land Force Limit Modifier +33%

The decision to form Russia will in turn give a new set of ideas should you choose to abandon your old Principality ideas.

Russian Ideas:

Traditions:
National Manpower Modifier: +33%
Core-Creation Cost: -10%

Land of the Rus: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Siberian Frontier: Colonists: +1
Russian Artillery Yard: Artillery Cost: -10%, Artillery Combat Ability +10%
Life-Long Conscription: Land Force Limit Modifier: +50%
Abolish the Mestnichestvo: Yearly Corruption: -0.1
The Table of Ranks: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.25, Advisor Cost: -10%
Broaden the Curriculum of the Cadet Corps: +5% Land Morale, 10% less fire damage received

Ambition:
Yearly Legitimacy: +1

New Playable Countries:
In EU in general and in Russia in particular there’s always a decision to be made of what is to be a province with high autonomy and, what should be a subject state or even independent. Our game enforces strict differences depending on what you pick but in reality it was quite possible in many cases to be somewhere in between.
In the case of Russia in 1444, Muscovy is in possession much land that really belongs to a minor principality that they have somehow acquired (often by simply buying the land from the princes in control of it) or that is ruled by a prince that has moved to the court in Moscow, allowing the Muscovite's to administrate it for him. In 1.22 we have taken another look at how we want the Muscovite lands to be portrayed and added two new vassal tags:

The first is the small state of Rostov, between Tver and Yaroslavl. This principality was in many ways quite firmly under Muscovite control ever since its princes had sold off half of the lands to Moscow, but Rostov would not be integrated entirely until 1474.
Rostov has a long and interesting history and would continue to play an important part in Russian politics every now and then, even as a part of a greater Russian state. We therefore thought it would be an interesting addition to the mix of states you can play in 1444.

Rostov Ideas:

Traditions:
Provincial Trade Power Modifier: +10%
Idea Cost: -10%

Re-Unification of Rostov: Goods Produced Modifier: +10%
Ancient Heritage: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Ecclesiastical Center: Tolerance of True Faith: +2
Entrepot of Russia: Trade Efficiency: +10%
Rostov Architecture: Construction Cost: -10%
Political Influence: Diplomats: +1
Rostov Enamel: Production Efficiency: +10%

Ambition:
Diplomatic Reputation: +1

The second new state we have added is one in the north, right at the border with Novgorod. The principality of Beloozero was never a metropolis and is long past its glory days in 1444. Ruled by Muscovite princes it would formally be incorporated directly into Muscovy in 1486 and its nobles would mostly make their mark upon the world within the frames of the Russian Empire. It's position is an interesting one however and our game history might unfold differently.

Beloozero Ideas:

Traditions:
Trade Efficiency: +10%
Infantry Combat Ability: +10%

Martial Heritage: Cavalry Cost: -10%
Monastic Traditions: Yearly Prestige: +1
Strengthen Local Lineages: Yearly Legitimacy: +1
Northern Trade: Domestic Trade Power: +25%
Officers of Beloozero: Yearly Army Tradition +0.5
Boreal Warfare: Attrition for Enemies: +1
Scientific Patronage: Technology Cost: -5%

Ambition:
Goods Produced Modifier +10%

Novgorod:

eu4_28.jpg


In the far north we have broken up some of Novgorod’s bigger provinces. Novgorod's domains always presented something of a difficulty to portray in that many of these locations had little in terms of population, yet contributed to the overall wealth of the Republic.
It also gives Novgorod some much needed strategic depth when fighting Muscovy to the south.

Lithuania:

eu4_31.jpg


Lithuania has long been a region in need of greater detail. In 1.22 we have broken up and reshaped many of their provinces, especially in the northeast. When adding new provinces we have tried to accommodate important regional centers, the internal administrative divisions of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth as well as the gradual expansion of Muscovy and later Russia into Belarus and the Ukraine.
As this was a highly contested region for much of the period covered by the game this should should hopefully make the region a lot more interesting to play in. It should also allow for a more engaging conquest for strong neighboring states...

That was all for today!
Next week’s developer diary will be written by Johan and may or may not touch on more things that could impact the region...
 
Last edited:

Itchel

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so what? That is like saying Persia losing morale tradition is no problem because they are Shia.

On the bright side, losing manpower bonus is far less impactful. Main impact of quantity is not the manpower, its to support merc/favorspam
Yeah, If persia had 40+ morale as an idea.
 

Chief of Staff

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Well... they essentially started a World War (only ever been accomplished by one other country so far :p) and are the usual example one thinks of when Nationalism is discussed

I don't mean to bring the mood down here but this is precisely why I have a passionate dislike of nationalism. Nationalism have been responsible for two world wars as well a few other smaller conflicts like Yugoslav wars and Irish Troubles which had done nothing but made lives miserable for almost everybody and brought deaths to the millions. It is perhaps one of the most dangerous and foolish ideals ever conceived by the humankind. The esteemed physicist Albert Einstein once said, "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
 

Siggerad

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I will like more events of that era, is like some players always look England and France like in the victoria age, or think in Europe in the industralization age and the rest of the world is behind, for that is Vicky II :)
 

DmUa

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I don't mean to bring the mood down here but this is precisely why I have a passionate dislike of nationalism. Nationalism have been responsible for two world wars as well a few other smaller conflicts like Yugoslav wars and Irish Troubles which had done nothing but made lives miserable for almost everybody and brought deaths to the millions. It is perhaps one of the most dangerous and foolish ideals ever conceived by the humankind. The esteemed physicist Albert Einstein once said, "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
- a rather questionable claim to place all the blame solely on nationalism by ignoring all other factors that some times even contributed to the rise of nationalism in the first place.
 

al.gb

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You can't get everything in life, and something have to give.

Traditions are great, you don't want to lose them.

1 - AE impact is a good one, and since we have a military bonus as traditon, we need something else conquest related early.
2 - Siberian Frontier has the auto-explore and a colonist is good for russia, so you dont get forced to exploration or expansion ideas early.
3 - Artillery Yard got boosted, and with 10% cheaper, and 10% better artillery, its an awesome idea.
4 - 50% forcelimits is very strong, as most nations get +25% or +33% here.
5 - Corruption reduction means you can debase currency at need, and/or not suffer as much from overextension.
6 - 10% cheaper advisors together with an average army tradition is a good one.
7 - institution spread was the weakest, so replace with a good military idea is the best possibility.
AE reduction don't really useful for diplomatically isolated country like Russia. Maybe return good old "Sudebnik" idea with its early bonus +10% tax income? It's will be justified because a new NI set doesn't have economical bonuses at all.
Besides, Sudebnik is real code of laws unlike vague "Land of the Rus" concept.

Life-long conscription was part of military reform of Peter I, so it surely should be down in the list then Abolish the mestnichestvo, to keep chronological order. And maybe it should be renamed to "Russian imperial army" because it is more famous and recognizable concept. As i said conscription system was only a part of this.

+0.5 AT was not very huge bonus (Cyprus has +1), maybe keep it with advisors cost?

Legitimacy as ambition looks like a waste, if there will be no mechanic to use it. Even prestige will be better.
 

Itchel

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AE reduction don't really useful for diplomatically isolated country like Russia. Maybe return good old "Sudebnik" idea with its early bonus +10% tax income? It's will be justified because a new NI set doesn't have economical bonuses at all.
Besides, Sudebnik is real code of laws unlike vague "Land of the Rus" concept.

Life-long conscription was part of military reform of Peter I, so it surely should be down in the list then Abolish the mestnichestvo, to keep chronological order. And maybe it should be renamed to "Russian imperial army" because it is more famous and recognizable concept. As i said conscription system was only a part of this.

+0.5 AT was not very huge bonus (Cyprus has +1), maybe keep it with advisors cost?

Legitimacy as ambition looks like a waste, if there will be no mechanic to use it. Even prestige will be better.

I mean... the AE is handy for the way I like to play russia... I try and rush to the pacific coast using conquest rather than colonies.
 

al.gb

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I mean... the AE is handy for the way I like to play russia... I try and rush to the pacific coast using conquest rather than colonies.
And how often did you get a coalition of Hordes against you? They may be outraged by your actions, but form the coalition? Especially when you consider the small amount of countries per regions in asia. I don't know.
 

Itchel

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And how often did you get a coalition of Hordes against you? They may be outraged by your actions, but form the coalition? Especially when you consider the small amount of countries per regions in asia. I don't know.
Well hordes aren't the biggest issue, The issue is them in combination with western coalitions. If i try and annex finland and other russian lands i generate more AE.

Hordes don't usually form coalitions unless a stronger christian nation would too.

My fault for expanding into 2 religions at once i suppose.
 

al.gb

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Well hordes aren't the biggest issue, The issue is them in combination with western coalitions. If i try and annex finland and other russian lands i generate more AE.

Hordes don't usually form coalitions unless a stronger christian nation would too.

My fault for expanding into 2 religions at once i suppose.
In fact, the beauty of Russia is that it can expand in any direction. European countries don't care about yours conquests in Asia and vise versa. If you get coalition on the west... well, bad for you. Don't go above AE limit in one direction, go for south/east/north, mixing it up.

I don't see real need in AE reduction for Russia, honestly.
 

ecrurudesby

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I'll repeat my suggestion on page 12 to replace Russia's AE idea with -20% culture conversion cost. There are only eight other such national ideas in the game, far less than the number of AE ideas.
 

Mortheim

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I'll repeat my suggestion on page 12 to replace Russia's AE idea with -20% culture conversion cost. There are only eight other such national ideas in the game, far less than the number of AE ideas.

Nononono. There is no reason for this. Maybe as ambition, but such ambition would be laughable. There were no true politics against other cultures, just Russian bred like hell.
 

hashinshin

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Russian ideas are still too weak. Compare them to Poland right next door and you'll see how weak they are. They don't even need to be much better.

And don't power spike the Russian government/religion or people will just use Polish ideas and culture swap/form Russia.
 

bbqftw

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Russian ideas are still too weak. Compare them to Poland right next door and you'll see how weak they are. They don't even need to be much better.

And don't power spike the Russian government/religion or people will just use Polish ideas and culture swap/form Russia.
apparently government is tied to starting as a Russian culture (can't switch into it via formation decision).

Of course there's a way, potentially two, around that.

But Johan thinks that legitimacy ideas are useful so just be happy Russia's ideas didn't get kazan'd (losing 15% morale for a near useless cav flanking ability)
 

al.gb

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I don't know. Russia strongly need economical bonuses to maintain big army and new streltsy especially.
They need high level advisors to be able to invest monarch points in new mechanics.

In fact corruption reduction now become useless, cause it not tied with any new mechanic. I thought corruption will be used for hiring streltsy, but i was wrong.
Same for legitimacy. If none of new mechanic using it, this ambition is worthless.
 

Mortheim

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So, now, let's see some interesting thing:
Streltsy are unique unit for Russia. 0.57 per regiment to maintain, so it is 2.5x expensive than infantry regiment. Russia is pretty poor. Who would want to rise them? Like, even Black Army looks nice now.
 

Twoflower

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  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
I don't know. Russia strongly need economical bonuses to maintain big army and new streltsy especially.
They need high level advisors to be able to invest monarch points in new mechanics.

In fact corruption reduction now become useless, cause it not tied with any new mechanic. I thought corruption will be used for hiring streltsy, but i was wrong.
Cheaper debase currency is certainly not useless. Plus, Russia can easily incur OE-based corruption.