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EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of May 2017

Hello everyone and welcome to this developed diary on setup changes in the Greater Russian region!

For the upcoming 1.22 patch we’ve had another look at modern Russia and Belarus. This is a region that has received attention previously but we feel that it was not up to the level of detail we have become accustomed to in other parts of Europe and that it could not properly reflect the lay of the land in the region in 1444.

The Russian Principalities in 1444:

In 1444 Russia was still divided into a number of principalities, in many ways this is the result of the constant interference from the Golden Horde. The Khans had defeated and divided the early Russian principalities and have come to not only exact tribute from the remaining states here, but have also acted as king-makers and guarantors of princely power.
As the game opens however the Golden Horde is going through a rough couple of decades with external pressure and internal struggles, historically ending in its general breakup into a number of much weaker successor states.
The Great Horde in our start date is what remains of the core of the Golden Horde but others, such as Crimea, would in time come to conquer and attempt to usurp their role as the overlord of the Russian states.
What this means for the Russians is that while horde intervention is still a factor in local politics, they have now been given some time to grow and thrive. As one of the main collectors of tribute for the Khans, Muscovy is now in the process of building a strong power base and has already used a combination of bribes and coercion to secure control over land of the minor princes in the region.


eu4_30.jpg


As you can see, in 1.22 we have chosen to greatly expand the number of provinces in this region. This allows for a greater degree of detail in the warfare in this region both between the principalities themselves and between the Russians and the Tatar hordes.
We have also taken the opportunity once again to adjust the development of the Russian region a bit, increasing it slightly to allow the states here to better make their mark upon the world.
In 1.22 one of the things this means is that some of the states we know and love are no longer the same. Ryazan is now a 4 province state and Yarloslavl and Tver are now 2 and 3 provinces respectively.

Muscovy:
First of the Russian principalities we have Muscovy itself. In 1444 this is already the dominant native power and in 1.22 it is the overlord of no less than five smaller principalities. The expanded number of provinces ensures that all is not lost simply from one battle or one siege, there is now room to move around when Kazan, the Great Horde or Lithuania comes knocking.
The greater detail has also allowed us to better show a number of centers of regional importance, giving it more of the historical depth that we have come to expect of other regions where we have overhauled the map.

Among the changes to the setup for Muscovy is also a revision of their ideas. Muscovite Ideas are now separate from those you get for forming Russia and currently look like this:

Muscovite Ideas:

Traditions:
Diplomatic Relations +1
Shock Damage Dealt +10%

1. Gatherers of Tribute: National Tax Income Modifier: +10%
2. Legacy of Dmitriy Donskoi: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.5
3. Seat of Metropolitan Bishop: Missionary Strength +1%, Tolerance of True Faith +1
4. Pomestnoe Voisko: Land Morale +10%
5. Strength of the Boyars: Stability Cost Modifier -20%
6. Zasechnaya Cherta: Fort Maintenance -20%
7. Descendants of the Byzantine Emperors: Diplomatic Reputation +1

Ambition:
Land Force Limit Modifier +33%

The decision to form Russia will in turn give a new set of ideas should you choose to abandon your old Principality ideas.

Russian Ideas:

Traditions:
National Manpower Modifier: +33%
Core-Creation Cost: -10%

Land of the Rus: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Siberian Frontier: Colonists: +1
Russian Artillery Yard: Artillery Cost: -10%, Artillery Combat Ability +10%
Life-Long Conscription: Land Force Limit Modifier: +50%
Abolish the Mestnichestvo: Yearly Corruption: -0.1
The Table of Ranks: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.25, Advisor Cost: -10%
Broaden the Curriculum of the Cadet Corps: +5% Land Morale, 10% less fire damage received

Ambition:
Yearly Legitimacy: +1

New Playable Countries:
In EU in general and in Russia in particular there’s always a decision to be made of what is to be a province with high autonomy and, what should be a subject state or even independent. Our game enforces strict differences depending on what you pick but in reality it was quite possible in many cases to be somewhere in between.
In the case of Russia in 1444, Muscovy is in possession much land that really belongs to a minor principality that they have somehow acquired (often by simply buying the land from the princes in control of it) or that is ruled by a prince that has moved to the court in Moscow, allowing the Muscovite's to administrate it for him. In 1.22 we have taken another look at how we want the Muscovite lands to be portrayed and added two new vassal tags:

The first is the small state of Rostov, between Tver and Yaroslavl. This principality was in many ways quite firmly under Muscovite control ever since its princes had sold off half of the lands to Moscow, but Rostov would not be integrated entirely until 1474.
Rostov has a long and interesting history and would continue to play an important part in Russian politics every now and then, even as a part of a greater Russian state. We therefore thought it would be an interesting addition to the mix of states you can play in 1444.

Rostov Ideas:

Traditions:
Provincial Trade Power Modifier: +10%
Idea Cost: -10%

Re-Unification of Rostov: Goods Produced Modifier: +10%
Ancient Heritage: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Ecclesiastical Center: Tolerance of True Faith: +2
Entrepot of Russia: Trade Efficiency: +10%
Rostov Architecture: Construction Cost: -10%
Political Influence: Diplomats: +1
Rostov Enamel: Production Efficiency: +10%

Ambition:
Diplomatic Reputation: +1

The second new state we have added is one in the north, right at the border with Novgorod. The principality of Beloozero was never a metropolis and is long past its glory days in 1444. Ruled by Muscovite princes it would formally be incorporated directly into Muscovy in 1486 and its nobles would mostly make their mark upon the world within the frames of the Russian Empire. It's position is an interesting one however and our game history might unfold differently.

Beloozero Ideas:

Traditions:
Trade Efficiency: +10%
Infantry Combat Ability: +10%

Martial Heritage: Cavalry Cost: -10%
Monastic Traditions: Yearly Prestige: +1
Strengthen Local Lineages: Yearly Legitimacy: +1
Northern Trade: Domestic Trade Power: +25%
Officers of Beloozero: Yearly Army Tradition +0.5
Boreal Warfare: Attrition for Enemies: +1
Scientific Patronage: Technology Cost: -5%

Ambition:
Goods Produced Modifier +10%

Novgorod:

eu4_28.jpg


In the far north we have broken up some of Novgorod’s bigger provinces. Novgorod's domains always presented something of a difficulty to portray in that many of these locations had little in terms of population, yet contributed to the overall wealth of the Republic.
It also gives Novgorod some much needed strategic depth when fighting Muscovy to the south.

Lithuania:

eu4_31.jpg


Lithuania has long been a region in need of greater detail. In 1.22 we have broken up and reshaped many of their provinces, especially in the northeast. When adding new provinces we have tried to accommodate important regional centers, the internal administrative divisions of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth as well as the gradual expansion of Muscovy and later Russia into Belarus and the Ukraine.
As this was a highly contested region for much of the period covered by the game this should should hopefully make the region a lot more interesting to play in. It should also allow for a more engaging conquest for strong neighboring states...

That was all for today!
Next week’s developer diary will be written by Johan and may or may not touch on more things that could impact the region...
 
Last edited:

bbqftw

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Judging power on ideasets is a bit wromg.
that is only true if your evaluation if idea sets is horrifically inaccurate, as in that case you'd see divergence between your perceived idea set strength and game outcomes
 

bbqftw

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Dakka

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Also Moscow was burnt down by Grande Armée looters.
I'm under the impression that the generally accepted fact is that the Russians burnt down Moscow as part of the scorched earth policy, not Napoleon
 

Mortheim

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I'm under the impression that the generally accepted fact is that the Russians burnt down Moscow as part of the scorched earth policy, not Napoleon

Well, this position is true even in Russia. But it is not known how fire really started - all we know it wasn't started by Russian Army. Either by accident (Russian cities were always made primarly from wood), or by someone who was angry that there weren't much to pillage, or during pillage :)
 

Dakka

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Well, this position is true even in Russia. But it is not known how fire really started - all we know it wasn't started by Russian Army. Either by accident (Russian cities were always made primarly from wood), or by someone who was angry that there weren't much to pillage, or during pillage :)
Probably Partisans. I can't imagine a French soldier being dumb enough to set their housing for the night on fire.
 

Grim Deadman

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I dont think there was more than couple hundred thousand people between Kazan and Ming pretty much. Id be surprised if there were.
You are obviously right, I wrongfully cited modern numbers

On a separate note, concerning the ongoing NI controversy, I think it is quite fitting that the Muscovite ideas are better than the Russian ones - not for historical reasons, but for AI balance. In my experience, the Russian AI usually underperforms and rarely (if ever) takes on the PLC, so perhaps the strong Muscovite ideas are meant to help the AI to hold its own against its neighbours (SWE, PLC, hordes - hopefully buffed hordes), whereas the later Russian ideas help it to expand into Siberia as well as nerf a little its expansive capabilities - for the exact purpose of not being able to "eat" the Ottomans by 1650
 

Johnny917

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What are you smoking, there were a shitton of Rebelions, Razin and Pugachov chief among them.

Also Russian army soundly defeated Frederick the not-so-Great and his famous goosesteppers, the so-called best army of Europe.

Also Moscow was burnt down by Grande Armée looters.

War exhaustion reduction sounds dandy, though.

You are right, Russia was shaken by rebellions, but after the successful establishment of the Romanov Dynasty, their was no real threat towards the reign of them themselves, sure, the polish were always rebelling and the cossacks were an unruly bunch. None of these revolts seriously hampered with Russias ability to sustain and grow. Even the most incompetent Romanov surpassed Fredrick the Great in terms of new land conquered.

Both of the revolts you named fit this category. Sure, the Don-Cossacks rebelling, was an inconvinience, but it was nowhere enough to destroy Russia or even severely damage it. The Pugachov Revolt it a fake son, exactly the thing I named before as one of the few causes that were genuinely threatening to the Autocracy, or rather the governing Tsar. (Also the peasant revolts never really demanded change upon the system of Tsardom themselves, the Tsar was rather seen as a benevolent protector by the common man).

The defeat of the Prussians was also less through superior army quality, but rather through sheer mass and brilliant commanders. You cannot possibly think that the army that lost countless soldiers, because they could not care about supplying them, would be equal to the superbly trained Prussian soldiers. Mass and superior commanders were the great assets of the Russian army.

Also it was the russian commander Fyodor Rostochin, that ordered that parts of Moscow were to be torched, including the Cremlin. This sounds to me, like the Russians would go any way needed to win a war. (You do not just burn your capital like that).

At the end, you are right, my ideas were of course too much. The numbers are to high, but I thought, that they would best represent the Russian state. This also goes @ecrurudesby
 

dhaeman

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This. I've already reported this for, I think, version 1.19 or possibly 1.18 and no action had been taken on this, despite this being acknowledged by a Paradox employee. Kind of disappointed in this, but oh well what can you do.

It broke in 1.19. I'm still playing on 1.18 so I guess I'll be missing out on new DLC until it gets resolved. Having completely random music play and having to manually control it to get something that fits just takes me out of it too much. I'd be plenty happy with just giving us the option of the music player or music triggers if there's some conflicting issue between the two.
 

Dakka

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It broke in 1.19. I'm still playing on 1.18 so I guess I'll be missing out on new DLC until it gets resolved. Having completely random music play and having to manually control it to get something that fits just takes me out of it too much. I'd be plenty happy with just giving us the option of the music player or music triggers if there's some conflicting issue between the two.
There should be no conflicting issue, they have a toggle button in the music player hearts of iron that works perfectly… Not sure why they haven't implemented it in Europa
 

Phoenix VII

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The defeat of the Prussians was also less through superior army quality, but rather through sheer mass and brilliant commanders. You cannot possibly think that the army that lost countless soldiers, because they could not care about supplying them, would be equal to the superbly trained Prussian soldiers. Mass and superior commanders were the great assets of the Russian army.
While the allies did have brilliant commanders, there were 41,000 Russians and 18,500 Austrians at Kunersdorf against 51,000 Prussians, they hardly won through mass but rather through better use of the terrain and having troops of good enough quality to fight the Prussians. As for the supply problems, the Russians' difficulty was in supplying an army over poor roads at a long distance, which is why they tried to take Kolberg several times but didn't succeed until December 1762. When they took Kolberg things immediately changed and Britain was expecting Prussia to fall shortly, but then Elizabeth died and was succeeded by Peter III who pulled Russia out of the war.
 

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I don't listen to EU music at all. Instead I compose my own custom playlists for the nation I'm playing as. Nothing in EU4 can beat Mussorgsky. ;)
 

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There are a lot of events that make a good worth more or less, either permanently or for a while.

The wiki has a nice list of them http://www.eu4wiki.com/Price_Change_events

No you misunderstood.

I meant that the events themselves are for the most part predictable and nothing like DHE event would be.

Most of those event you linked to has 1 month MTTH which means it is almost virtually 99 certainly that they will fire off as soon they meet the criteria if not right away.
 

RedHunter

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Major nerf to the Russian ideas, makes me glad I already did the achievements based around Russia. Why remove the manpower ideas? Hopefully, it is added back in through a special government type, that will be the only way it makes any sense.
 

Itchel

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Major nerf to the Russian ideas, makes me glad I already did the achievements based around Russia. Why remove the manpower ideas? Hopefully, it is added back in through a special government type, that will be the only way it makes any sense.
Yes, Call it the "USSR" government type.
 

Dakka

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Major nerf to the Russian ideas, makes me glad I already did the achievements based around Russia. Why remove the manpower ideas? Hopefully, it is added back in through a special government type, that will be the only way it makes any sense.

Here's an idea, Paradox. KEEP THE CURRENT RUSSIAN IDEAS. They're fine and they mesh with how Russia "should" be played IMO. Hordes of conscripted spam, that's just Russia's thing.
Not in this time period. You are both thinking of USSR "no rifle? GO FIND ONE!" Stereotype.
This Russia wasn't so heavily populated and actually had a fairly competent army (or at least competent soldiers and generals moreso than military structure, if that makes sense), and was one of the pioneers of artillery in the late game time period.
 

ThatRabidPotato

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Not in this time period. You are both thinking of USSR "no rifle? GO FIND ONE!" Stereotype.
This Russia wasn't so heavily populated and actually had a fairly competent army (or at least competent soldiers and generals moreso than military structure, if that makes sense), and was one of the pioneers of artillery in the late game time period.
I am perfectly aware of Russia's excellent artillery corps in the period. Also Suvorov's brilliance, reliance on the bayonet, the fear and awe that the Russian soldier inspired, and so on.

Even being aware of that, I maintain that a Russia without major buffs to quantity is like Britain without buffs to its navy or Spain without buffs to religion. It's simply. who. they. are.
 

ecrurudesby

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I am perfectly aware of Russia's excellent artillery corps in the period. Also Suvorov's brilliance, reliance on the bayonet, the fear and awe that the Russian soldier inspired, and so on.

Even being aware of that, I maintain that a Russia without major buffs to quantity is like Britain without buffs to its navy or Spain without buffs to religion. It's simply. who. they. are.
In this new patch Russia's +33% national manpower will be tied for the largest idea outside of Quantity ideas. And the +50% force limit will still be tied with Quantity for the largest such modifier. The force limit idea has not been changed.

You're really making a fuss over nothing. Russia's previous +75% manpower was largely inconsequential due to the country's troops being such poor quality.
 

nalivayko

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I think manpower nerf of -42% is not a "little". Manpower and quantity were a core of their idea group.

<sarcasm>Yes, everyone knows how a half of million of Russian soldiers fought 50,000 French to a standstill at Borodino</sarcasm>