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EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of May 2017

Hello everyone and welcome to this developed diary on setup changes in the Greater Russian region!

For the upcoming 1.22 patch we’ve had another look at modern Russia and Belarus. This is a region that has received attention previously but we feel that it was not up to the level of detail we have become accustomed to in other parts of Europe and that it could not properly reflect the lay of the land in the region in 1444.

The Russian Principalities in 1444:

In 1444 Russia was still divided into a number of principalities, in many ways this is the result of the constant interference from the Golden Horde. The Khans had defeated and divided the early Russian principalities and have come to not only exact tribute from the remaining states here, but have also acted as king-makers and guarantors of princely power.
As the game opens however the Golden Horde is going through a rough couple of decades with external pressure and internal struggles, historically ending in its general breakup into a number of much weaker successor states.
The Great Horde in our start date is what remains of the core of the Golden Horde but others, such as Crimea, would in time come to conquer and attempt to usurp their role as the overlord of the Russian states.
What this means for the Russians is that while horde intervention is still a factor in local politics, they have now been given some time to grow and thrive. As one of the main collectors of tribute for the Khans, Muscovy is now in the process of building a strong power base and has already used a combination of bribes and coercion to secure control over land of the minor princes in the region.


eu4_30.jpg


As you can see, in 1.22 we have chosen to greatly expand the number of provinces in this region. This allows for a greater degree of detail in the warfare in this region both between the principalities themselves and between the Russians and the Tatar hordes.
We have also taken the opportunity once again to adjust the development of the Russian region a bit, increasing it slightly to allow the states here to better make their mark upon the world.
In 1.22 one of the things this means is that some of the states we know and love are no longer the same. Ryazan is now a 4 province state and Yarloslavl and Tver are now 2 and 3 provinces respectively.

Muscovy:
First of the Russian principalities we have Muscovy itself. In 1444 this is already the dominant native power and in 1.22 it is the overlord of no less than five smaller principalities. The expanded number of provinces ensures that all is not lost simply from one battle or one siege, there is now room to move around when Kazan, the Great Horde or Lithuania comes knocking.
The greater detail has also allowed us to better show a number of centers of regional importance, giving it more of the historical depth that we have come to expect of other regions where we have overhauled the map.

Among the changes to the setup for Muscovy is also a revision of their ideas. Muscovite Ideas are now separate from those you get for forming Russia and currently look like this:

Muscovite Ideas:

Traditions:
Diplomatic Relations +1
Shock Damage Dealt +10%

1. Gatherers of Tribute: National Tax Income Modifier: +10%
2. Legacy of Dmitriy Donskoi: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.5
3. Seat of Metropolitan Bishop: Missionary Strength +1%, Tolerance of True Faith +1
4. Pomestnoe Voisko: Land Morale +10%
5. Strength of the Boyars: Stability Cost Modifier -20%
6. Zasechnaya Cherta: Fort Maintenance -20%
7. Descendants of the Byzantine Emperors: Diplomatic Reputation +1

Ambition:
Land Force Limit Modifier +33%

The decision to form Russia will in turn give a new set of ideas should you choose to abandon your old Principality ideas.

Russian Ideas:

Traditions:
National Manpower Modifier: +33%
Core-Creation Cost: -10%

Land of the Rus: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Siberian Frontier: Colonists: +1
Russian Artillery Yard: Artillery Cost: -10%, Artillery Combat Ability +10%
Life-Long Conscription: Land Force Limit Modifier: +50%
Abolish the Mestnichestvo: Yearly Corruption: -0.1
The Table of Ranks: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.25, Advisor Cost: -10%
Broaden the Curriculum of the Cadet Corps: +5% Land Morale, 10% less fire damage received

Ambition:
Yearly Legitimacy: +1

New Playable Countries:
In EU in general and in Russia in particular there’s always a decision to be made of what is to be a province with high autonomy and, what should be a subject state or even independent. Our game enforces strict differences depending on what you pick but in reality it was quite possible in many cases to be somewhere in between.
In the case of Russia in 1444, Muscovy is in possession much land that really belongs to a minor principality that they have somehow acquired (often by simply buying the land from the princes in control of it) or that is ruled by a prince that has moved to the court in Moscow, allowing the Muscovite's to administrate it for him. In 1.22 we have taken another look at how we want the Muscovite lands to be portrayed and added two new vassal tags:

The first is the small state of Rostov, between Tver and Yaroslavl. This principality was in many ways quite firmly under Muscovite control ever since its princes had sold off half of the lands to Moscow, but Rostov would not be integrated entirely until 1474.
Rostov has a long and interesting history and would continue to play an important part in Russian politics every now and then, even as a part of a greater Russian state. We therefore thought it would be an interesting addition to the mix of states you can play in 1444.

Rostov Ideas:

Traditions:
Provincial Trade Power Modifier: +10%
Idea Cost: -10%

Re-Unification of Rostov: Goods Produced Modifier: +10%
Ancient Heritage: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Ecclesiastical Center: Tolerance of True Faith: +2
Entrepot of Russia: Trade Efficiency: +10%
Rostov Architecture: Construction Cost: -10%
Political Influence: Diplomats: +1
Rostov Enamel: Production Efficiency: +10%

Ambition:
Diplomatic Reputation: +1

The second new state we have added is one in the north, right at the border with Novgorod. The principality of Beloozero was never a metropolis and is long past its glory days in 1444. Ruled by Muscovite princes it would formally be incorporated directly into Muscovy in 1486 and its nobles would mostly make their mark upon the world within the frames of the Russian Empire. It's position is an interesting one however and our game history might unfold differently.

Beloozero Ideas:

Traditions:
Trade Efficiency: +10%
Infantry Combat Ability: +10%

Martial Heritage: Cavalry Cost: -10%
Monastic Traditions: Yearly Prestige: +1
Strengthen Local Lineages: Yearly Legitimacy: +1
Northern Trade: Domestic Trade Power: +25%
Officers of Beloozero: Yearly Army Tradition +0.5
Boreal Warfare: Attrition for Enemies: +1
Scientific Patronage: Technology Cost: -5%

Ambition:
Goods Produced Modifier +10%

Novgorod:

eu4_28.jpg


In the far north we have broken up some of Novgorod’s bigger provinces. Novgorod's domains always presented something of a difficulty to portray in that many of these locations had little in terms of population, yet contributed to the overall wealth of the Republic.
It also gives Novgorod some much needed strategic depth when fighting Muscovy to the south.

Lithuania:

eu4_31.jpg


Lithuania has long been a region in need of greater detail. In 1.22 we have broken up and reshaped many of their provinces, especially in the northeast. When adding new provinces we have tried to accommodate important regional centers, the internal administrative divisions of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth as well as the gradual expansion of Muscovy and later Russia into Belarus and the Ukraine.
As this was a highly contested region for much of the period covered by the game this should should hopefully make the region a lot more interesting to play in. It should also allow for a more engaging conquest for strong neighboring states...

That was all for today!
Next week’s developer diary will be written by Johan and may or may not touch on more things that could impact the region...
 
Last edited:

lolada

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About that institution spread, it needs to be really high to have meaningful effect. 20% is iffy, if i really want an institution i will just take 1 more extra loan and embrace it. And we also have state edict available. Practically, that 20% institution idea is worth a few loans of $$$. Also that artillery cost was not enough, fully formed Russia already has enough money imo so its worth little to them.

+1 for buffing russian ideas - they really need some quality. The thing is their opponents are Poland - which has the best military idea set in game, Brandenburg/Prussia..., Sweden is strong, Ottos have good bonuses. Lategame when nations have lots of troups Russian quantity edge just wasn't enough for AI.
 

Swirly Mango

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I absolutely hate concept of a nation-state forming another nation-state, as it introduces so many loopholes.

Any potential russian government abilities will only be for russian government types which can not be switched to unless you are one of them from the start.

But... why?

The Dutch have an amazing idea set and government form which you can obtain as anyone.

Why not have the option to form some Russian Principality? If the argument is it's overpowered... well Prussian Monarchy with Prussian ideas and Prussian Absolutism (+20 guaranteed from event) exists to the West and Poland with the best idea set in the game exists to the south.

I firmly believe the government form should be available to all.
 

OBRkenobi

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I absolutely hate concept of a nation-state forming another nation-state, as it introduces so many loopholes.

Any potential russian government abilities will only be for russian government types which can not be switched to unless you are one of them from the start though.

Anyway, we're adding 10% artillery_power to the artillery idea, and changing institution spread to 5% morale and 10% less firedamage taken, while reducing Fur's bonus to 0.5 prestige and balancing other stuff you havent seen to compensate.
Thank you. I too have always hated the implausibility of being able to to form a country completely unrelated (cultually and historically) to the one you started with.
 

Kissya

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+1 for buffing russian ideas - they really need some quality. The thing is their opponents are Poland - which has the best military idea set in game, Brandenburg/Prussia..., Sweden is strong, Ottos have good bonuses. Lategame when nations have lots of troups Russian quantity edge just wasn't enough for AI.

Ottos "stomp" Russia as long as they have the Janissaries or fight on one front. Persia is more than a match for Ottomans, Hungary if she survives aswell not to forget the Commonwealth. It's not like if Ottomans could focus Muscovy / Russia and be left alone.

In MP (since AI cant Mix / max countries) it's not unusual to see a Muscovy / Russia being in the top 5 European revenues by 1500. Only few countries can keep up with her (basically only the countries having the Indian ocean trade aswell as good production). By 1600's Muscovy doesnt really care about Polish Quality or Swedish one.

I do agree Russia have "less" military ideas but it wasnt really a Military Powerhouse until the 18th Century. Having national ideas of a military country doesnt fit, of course having some is "mandatory" it seems. Plus you can always grab Military doctrines to balance it out. Of course you'll never have the Quality of a Poland or a Prussia but that's not the point of Russia in that timeperiod. In EUIV Mid / late game you crush your opponents through economy and the capacity of Waging battle after battle while they can't.
 

Zhernoff

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Saw the update, was for the most part disappointed. To repeat a part of my steam rant with less swearing:

Still, while it's strict nerf to russian ideas, it's also funny because Muscovy ideas are just better now and so long as i can keep them as Russia i'll be happy. I take +10% morale, early game shock bonus, cheaper forts, cheaper stability, better tradition and minor religion and diplo stuff over useless s**t like +1 legitimacy, advisor cost or institution spread any time of the day. And puny nerfed remains of manpower bonuses, coring cost or that colonist won't stop me for sure.

F**k yeah i'm muscovite! And i'm more proud of it in regards to this game than ever before.
 

delra

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Zak Preston

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@Johan what prevents you from just tweaking old Russian ideas with some morale? Stuff in 10%-15% morale instead of institution spread and remove double manpower bonus (add corruption discount or missionary strength). All unique features, DHE and decisions should be balanced around NI set.

And now we have an extremely well-rounded, potent and viable idea set, able to compete for tier-1 (not for top-5 still),
 
Last edited:

ecrurudesby

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Anyway, we're adding 10% artillery_power to the artillery idea, and changing institution spread to 5% morale and 10% less firedamage taken, while reducing Fur's bonus to 0.5 prestige and balancing other stuff you havent seen to compensate.
To illustrate this for everyone:

Traditions:
National Manpower Modifier +33%
Core-Creation Cost -10%

Aggressive Expansion Impact -10%
Colonists +1 & adjacent auto-explore
Artillery Cost -10% & Artillery Combat Ability +10%
Land Force Limit Modifier +50%
Yearly Corruption -0.1
Yearly Army Tradition +0.25 & Advisor Cost -10%
Land morale +5% & Fire damage taken -10%

Ambition:
Yearly Legitimacy +1

Suggestions:
Change AE -10% to culture conversion cost -20% as Russia had before
Remove land morale from last idea and increase army tradition to at least +0.5 ideally +1. If only +0.5 increase advisor discount to -20%
And as for the Ambition, how about something out of left field? Ship cost -20% (Peter the Great working as a shipwright in the Netherlands during the Grand Embassy)
 

Mortheim

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And as for the Ambition, how about something out of left field? Ship cost -20% (Peter the Great working as a shipwright in the Netherlands during the Grand Embassy)

There is already too much ideas centered aroung Peter. I think development discount could be better - representing FAST population growth and invitation of different europeans to settle (creating factories/manufactories or just settlements).
 

staycool.

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What Russia badly needs is morale and discipline. In MP it simply gets roflstomped. Colonial nations with their income can easily out-Russia Russia.

Give Russia 10% morale and 3% discipline for it's last idea and it will be able to compete.

OT but i think Austria could use a boost as well in it's ideas.
 

Zwirbaum

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Shock Damage Dealt!
That's ... actually pretty unique. No other country has such an idea.
Great Yuan has Shock Damage Dealt.
 

durbal

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But... why?

The Dutch have an amazing idea set and government form which you can obtain as anyone.

Why not have the option to form some Russian Principality? If the argument is it's overpowered... well Prussian Monarchy with Prussian ideas and Prussian Absolutism (+20 guaranteed from event) exists to the West and Poland with the best idea set in the game exists to the south.

I firmly believe the government form should be available to all.

Republics are a great government form?