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Today is thursday, the day of the God of Thunder, so what is a more appropriate way to celebrate than with a development diary for Europa Univeralis IV. We’ve talked about development and politics the last few weeks, so now its time to talk a bit more about warfare again, before going back to more peacetime-related activities.

All of this mentioned in this development diary will be in the free update accompanying the next expansion.

Fortress Rework
Connecting a bit to the previous reveal of our change to how building works, we have overhauled the fortress system.

There are now four different forts, one available each century, providing 1, 3, 5 and 7 fort-levels each. A newer fort makes the previous obsolete, so you only have 1 fort in each province. Each fortress also provides 5000 garrison per fort level, so besieging a fortress now requires a large investment.

Forts now also require maintenance to be paid each month, which currently costs about 1.5 ducats for a level 1 fort per month in 1444. Luckily, you can mothball a fortress which makes it drop to just 10 men defending it, and won’t cost you anything in upkeep.

Garrison growth for a fort is also a fair amount slower than before, so after you have taken a fort, you may want to stick around to protect it for a bit.

What is most important to know though, is that forts now have a Zone of Control. First of all, they will automatically take control of any adjacent province that does not have any forts that is adjacent and hostile to them. If two fortress compete over the same province, then the one with highest fort-level wins and in case of a tie, control goes to the owner of the province. Secondly, you can not walk past a fortress and its zone of control, as you have to siege down the blocking fort first.

Each capital have a free fort-level, but that fort will not have any ZoC, as most minor nations can not afford a major fortress.

fH0WehV.jpg



Looting
As we promised, we have now completely revised how looting works. Now there is a “pile” of possible loot in a province, which is directly tied to have developed the province is.

At the end of each month, all hostile units in a province attempt to loot, and the amount they loot depend on how many regiments you have there, and what types they are, where cavalry is by far the best. Some ideas and governments increase the amount you loot each month, where for example Steppe Hordes gains a nice boost.

A province starts recovering from being looted when 6 months have passed since last loot, and it takes up to a year until it has fully recovered.

Of course, the penalty on a province from being looted is still there until it has fully recovered, but it is scaled on how much have been looted.

Ea5YCKh.jpg


Committed Armies
One of the major complaints we have had on the combat in Eu4, has been the fact that you can fully abort your movement whenever you liked. This have been changed, and now you can’t abort your movement if you have already moved 50% of the way. After all, its just common sense that a unit that have already moved halfway between the centers of two provinces is already in the second one.

Force Limits
We felt that the calculations of forcelimits where far too hidden from the player, Players saw stuff like “+25.87 from Provinces”, which based based on projections of base-tax amongst other things, and sometimes those dropped for no obvious reasons.

Now you will be able to see in each province how much it provides to your forcelimits, and we have cleaned up the logic.

Each level of development gives 0.1 land and naval forcelimit.
Overseas will provide -2 land and -2 naval forcelimit
Inland provinces will not provide any naval forcelimit.
However, a province will never be able to provide negative forcelimits.

A nation also have a base value of +3 land and +2 naval force limit, and there are some other ways to get direct forcelimit increased, that are not just percentage increases.

IRmTjoZ.jpg



Next week, we'll be back and talk more about The Devout.
 

zdlugasz

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WhiskyGlen said:
So what Johan is implying is that if Lübeck has a fort 3 and Schleswig has a fort 1, then once war breaks out, Holstein will go to The Hansa or whomever controls Lübeck.



I beg you to reconsider your answer/idea.

Why fort on one/my side of border should automatically get control over terrain on the other/enemy side of border? IMO it should not work like that even with provinces without fort, and especially not against any fort.
Forts are defensive feature, unless they have access to rocket launchers and orbital weapons - but that is outside EU timeframe. They should not project anything across border or fort 100 km away.

Capture of fort should allow control (or maybe even give control) of its Zone, and Zones should not overlap.




Example 1 (re provinces over border): country without fort, I build fort 1 on border, dow and instantly get occupation of all country except capital?
Example 2 (re smaller vs larger fort): I capture enemy fort level 7, why should forts level 1/3/5 in neighboring provinces auto-surrender?




Edit: questions from my previous post (to keep them all together):

How big can Zone be? only 1 ring - then fine I can go into Terra Incognita and find fortress (although not being able to discover neighboring provinces to "see" incoming enemy sucks), but if country is medium size (or just weirdly shaped) and does have only capital fortess (say 1444 in central Asia, capital with fortress level 1), then how can I move through Zone?

I guess that in HRE, when I get access to all members, I can bypass enemy provinces using neutral party provinces (going e.g. for Austrian' s throat) - true or false?


Unrelated question
- will you ever increase number of provinces in Random New World?
 
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Ferrous Will

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Not to mention Ferrous Will wasn't 100% right anyways due to his misunderstanding of the meaning of the word "adjacent." He could be right. But until it's clarified, it's not known how many provinces a fort will control.
I'm open to the possibility that i understood the word adjacent wrong, but frankly if a province A is two provinces away from province B i wouldn't call A and B adjacent.
 
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MiniaAr

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Regarding Burgundy, I second the motion that Breda should be owned by Brabant and not Holland. This region was and is still called north Brabant for a reason. ;)

Also, I'm not sure about the Picardy part of Burgundy (it seems like it from the flag). Artois would seem to be a better new country for this region, as this has a much more detailed history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Artois
Picardy could instead be given directly to Burgundy instead as this region changed hands between Burgundy and France lots of times in the second half of the 15th century (see cities of the Somme). :)
 
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Golladan

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Read please fragments I am quoting. As far as I understood, Whiskey Glen asked if Hanseatic level 3 fort will on day one take control over level 1 fort in SLesvig. Johan said yes.
It has nothing to do with moving army and sieges.
I think you misunderstood the question.

The question was:

If there is a level 3 fort in Lubeck, and a level 1 fort in Slesvig, when the Hansa (owner of Lubeck) and Holstein (owner of Slesvig) go to war, will the Hansa get control of Holstein (the province between Slesvig and Lubeck, which Holstein also owns)?

The answer was yes. Which would be no different from the Hansa simply moving a unit into Holstein.
 
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hashinshin

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Okay can I get this clarified:

If a fortress is overlooking a non-fortress non-fortress-adjacent province and you go to war that province will be sieged down? Meaning controlled but not owned by the fort owner?

Meaning a war could start and 5 instant sieges could happen?
 
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Ashantai

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My only concern will be countries with a long coastline will have to be good at spacing out their forts otherwise sea-raiders can land and instantly capture provinces.

I never liked the instant capture of fort level 0 provinces either here or in EU3. I think that provinces without fortresses, and out of the ZOC should have a nominal garrison of even 100 which is easy to capture, but not an instant win.

Overall though I love where the fort idea is going. It always struck me as odd that every province required sieging.

Plus, the level 7 forts 35,000 defenders sounds intimidating.
 
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Blijert

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Hold on! Does this mean that mothballed forts still have a ZOC? Shouldn't the full fort get control of the province inbetween?

This might be important especially in EU provinces with high basetax and trade values. You can just mothball a fort and maybe put a single regiment defense there, which is cheaper.
Meanwhile the remainder of your army at the border (between the forts) might have a great deal extra maneuverability from the provinces kept under controll, it looks minor but it can decide wars.
 
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Phibs

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I'm glad to see one of the better features of MOTE make it into a flagship title. Sad that game didn't get much support.

Indeed. Now for the supply system :D
 
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Merrivale

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This is truly a revolutionary change to the game and I hope PI takes their time balancing it because it touches so many different areas that have mostly already been brought up. Army tradition, maintenance, rebels, army size, siege progress, assaults, sorties, autonomy, AI logic, artillery power, maneuver value, national ideas and traditions, shattering, war score, manpower, attrition, amphibious actions (do zones of control stretch across straits? What if I block those straits with a navy?), fort costs and income generation, and I'm sure more that I'm not thinking of.

I'd like to echo a few things: I do hope that I'm reading it correctly that a siege allows you to move past the zone of control, because a fortress cannot project power if it is besieged. What happens to armies that then become cut-off if the siege is lifted I don't know, but I would think something bad :).

War score for controlling key provinces definitely needs to be changed.

Provinces with high LA and fortresses should be more likely to simply give their fortress to an attacker, especially if the province is not an accepted culture or different religion (attacker shares same culture and/or religion) or the attacker has a core on the province. This has the benefit of being historical and good for gameplay. This would also be a great place for espionage, if it increased or decreased the chance of this happening. I'd actually consider taking the idea group.
 
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Can you mothball captured forts/do you have to pay for captured forts? Like if I'm winning a war i don't want to have to pay 20 ducats a month to pay for a bunch of captured forts i don't care about because i'm carpet seiging because the AI won't give me the two provinces i want so i have to capture all 50 of their provinces before they'll consider it
 
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As some have already pointed out, France's vassals seem to be missing...

Is this the new 1444 start? If so, it is sad that their unique tier 1 sprites won't appear in-game unless they get spit out of France... which is unlikely in most circumstances. :(
 
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Neoton

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I agree. While I love the rest of the changes, this 'no halfway turning back' thing is kinda stupid. Because it simply makes zero sense, although it would if the army would be disorganized and immobile for a while to turn back.

It makes the game really tedious for the player while adding nothing. Accidentally right clicked to move your army from Moscow to China and forgot about it for a while? Sorry, no possible way. Now it will march thousands of kilometer without a clue on how to stop their legs.

Really bad.

Read the OP again. The change affects traveling from one province to another. If you send an army from province A to province B and they have traveled more than 50% of the distance between these two provinces they can't go back instantly.
 
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WhiskyGlen

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It seems to me that particular siege was more of a naval siege than anything, hence why it lasted so long. I kind of wish naval units had more of a role in this game other than taking away two added defense points. For example, why can't a partial blockade take away one of those points? Why can't super large naval armies turn that former positive number into a negative? Why do winning naval battles that sink an entire opposing fleet provide almost no warscore and thus have little affect on your eventual victory? I would think losing an entire naval fleet would have to be an ultimate morale blow for a nation.
 
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grommile

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When did countries build 5k - 20k fortresses in every province?
Never, to my knowledge.
And filling / emptying huge forts is not strategy. Look at the French, in WW2. Why they did not build a Maginot Line from 200 to 200km?
Because:
  • They imagined the Maginot Line as it was might actually be sufficient to stop a German offensive in its tracks.
  • They couldn't, or didn't want to, pay the capital, operational, and opportunity costs of building so many fortifications.
  • Fortifying the Belgian border would have created the implication that they weren't going to defend Belgium and the Netherlands from potential German aggression.
The "opportunity cost" part of the second point will of course apply in EU4 Next - if you build a fort in a province, you've consumed one of its small finite number of building slots.
 
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