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Today is thursday, the day of the God of Thunder, so what is a more appropriate way to celebrate than with a development diary for Europa Univeralis IV. We’ve talked about development and politics the last few weeks, so now its time to talk a bit more about warfare again, before going back to more peacetime-related activities.

All of this mentioned in this development diary will be in the free update accompanying the next expansion.

Fortress Rework
Connecting a bit to the previous reveal of our change to how building works, we have overhauled the fortress system.

There are now four different forts, one available each century, providing 1, 3, 5 and 7 fort-levels each. A newer fort makes the previous obsolete, so you only have 1 fort in each province. Each fortress also provides 5000 garrison per fort level, so besieging a fortress now requires a large investment.

Forts now also require maintenance to be paid each month, which currently costs about 1.5 ducats for a level 1 fort per month in 1444. Luckily, you can mothball a fortress which makes it drop to just 10 men defending it, and won’t cost you anything in upkeep.

Garrison growth for a fort is also a fair amount slower than before, so after you have taken a fort, you may want to stick around to protect it for a bit.

What is most important to know though, is that forts now have a Zone of Control. First of all, they will automatically take control of any adjacent province that does not have any forts that is adjacent and hostile to them. If two fortress compete over the same province, then the one with highest fort-level wins and in case of a tie, control goes to the owner of the province. Secondly, you can not walk past a fortress and its zone of control, as you have to siege down the blocking fort first.

Each capital have a free fort-level, but that fort will not have any ZoC, as most minor nations can not afford a major fortress.

fH0WehV.jpg



Looting
As we promised, we have now completely revised how looting works. Now there is a “pile” of possible loot in a province, which is directly tied to have developed the province is.

At the end of each month, all hostile units in a province attempt to loot, and the amount they loot depend on how many regiments you have there, and what types they are, where cavalry is by far the best. Some ideas and governments increase the amount you loot each month, where for example Steppe Hordes gains a nice boost.

A province starts recovering from being looted when 6 months have passed since last loot, and it takes up to a year until it has fully recovered.

Of course, the penalty on a province from being looted is still there until it has fully recovered, but it is scaled on how much have been looted.

Ea5YCKh.jpg


Committed Armies
One of the major complaints we have had on the combat in Eu4, has been the fact that you can fully abort your movement whenever you liked. This have been changed, and now you can’t abort your movement if you have already moved 50% of the way. After all, its just common sense that a unit that have already moved halfway between the centers of two provinces is already in the second one.

Force Limits
We felt that the calculations of forcelimits where far too hidden from the player, Players saw stuff like “+25.87 from Provinces”, which based based on projections of base-tax amongst other things, and sometimes those dropped for no obvious reasons.

Now you will be able to see in each province how much it provides to your forcelimits, and we have cleaned up the logic.

Each level of development gives 0.1 land and naval forcelimit.
Overseas will provide -2 land and -2 naval forcelimit
Inland provinces will not provide any naval forcelimit.
However, a province will never be able to provide negative forcelimits.

A nation also have a base value of +3 land and +2 naval force limit, and there are some other ways to get direct forcelimit increased, that are not just percentage increases.

IRmTjoZ.jpg



Next week, we'll be back and talk more about The Devout.
 

Golladan

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Considering how they include Holland and Flanders, which are richer regions than Burgundy and the fact that all it would take is one French/Austrian/Savoyard/Swiss diplomat to support their independence, I wouldn't be so sure. Sweden seems to become independent almost immediately in my games after getting independence support from just the Teutonic Order or other Danish rival.
I set it up real quick and under the current mechanics this would be the starting LD.

ZiYANQ9.jpg


In the screenshot from the dev diary, Flanders, Picardie, and Holland start with a smaller navy, and Brabant and Hainaut start with a smaller army.
 
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Lakedaimon

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I know this was posted pages ago, but I was wondering if there were any good places to go to read more about this? I know when Europe transitioned from the Medieval Era to the Age of Sail, wars went from "take out the opposing army and siege only what you really need to" to "pitched battles aren't as important as sieging fortresses".

I'm guessing during the Napoleonic wars there was some strategic shift again with forts not being as useful? I'd like to read more about what changed and how it changed.

Wish I could help you with books but I learned a lot about it during my course on Military History. For the most part the major change was that up untill the Napoleonic wars the land wasn't able to sustain a large amount of people so armies had to be supplied from further away, meaning lines of supply were very important and forts could cut those off, making it suicidal to have a fortress behind you that you didn't control. Due to major changes around the Napoleonic era in the agricultural output smaller amounts of land could sustain a larger amount of people allowing armies to forrage off the land, making it less important if there was a fortress behind you as your supply lines were less essential, allowing for deeper penetration into enemy lands, more manouvering and making battles more decisive.
 
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WhiskyGlen

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One thing I love about this update is the committed armies idea. No more playing cat and mouse with an AI army that realizes you are about to reinforce a province they are about to attack. Although, a suggestion is to allow an army to back out, but have it based on how many days past they are. For example, it takes 20 days to go from province A to province B. After 10 days, the army is in province B. Say it's 14 days, the army should be able to turn around, however, it takes four days to complete the return to the original province.

You know, this could ultimately set-up a future game where there are no "provinces." Movement is free based on terrain and army width. Roads could be hand-built for increase troop movement and forts could be placed at actual choke points. Although, this would be more of an EUV thing...
 
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Kapitalisti

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Wow, this is indeed a huge change and one for the better in my opinion. You can finally really fortify your borders to deter the enemy.

But what about Marches? Will they still receive the same bonuses they had before? And will they be more inclined to building forts on their borders or better yet, could their overlord build forts for them?
 
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Sian

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So does that mean I can insta-win wars against OPMs by having a big fort standing next to them?

Given that Captials gets a free fort (of uncertain quality, but a free fort nontheless) and the insta-winning control is when talking about a province WITHOUT a fort, between two forts of differing quality, no.
 
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trybald

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A suggestion: there should be an option to relegate the fort maintenance to local nobles/burgers/whatever at the cost of increased autonomy. In case of an uprising or a rebel army marching through, such fort would flip immidiately to the rebels if they are aligned with the local unrest. Taking back such forts into the central control should also be a pain in the ass.

Historically, nobles and local interests maintained fortifications. When monarchies strenghtened, kings struggled to wrest such fortresses from their fold.
 
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yls3431

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We want it now! Please, release it soon. This will be a complete overhaul of the game. If you rework also naval system, and coastal provinces to a similar way where coastal fortified provinces are virtually unsiegable without naval blockade it will give the game a new flavour, even more, to merchant republics who tends to conquer important trade provinces and a new way to defend it!


That would be the best change ever.

Please Johan make blocade actually relevent.
 
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Homer2101

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Several of the proposed fort mechanics aren't good. They don't make much common sense, are wholly ahistorical, and make conquest absurdly easy without a complete rework of warscore and conquest mechanics.

First, the proposed army blocking mechanic treats major forts like some sort of magical behemoths that, by their mere presence, somehow block all routes of communication and protect all settlements at all times, and which an attacking army must siege in order to move on. This has never been the case, aside from a few very rare circumstances, from the beginning of warfare until the present day.

In every single war, armies have been able to outmaneuver forts and their garrisons. During the Hundred Years War, English armies raided the French countryside at will while French garrisons looked on. During the Eighty Years War, both Dutch and Spanish commanders bypassed forts and selected which forts and cities to siege and which to leave hanging on the vine. The exceptions occur due to exceptional geography, where there is only one route which the army must take.

Suggestion:

Instead of acting as magical roadblocks, forts should reduce movement speed of hostile armies and increase hostile attrition. This will represent the need to take less-optimal routes against forts and fairly accurately represent forts for what they were and are: means of slowing the enemy until defending forces can be mobilized. This will also allow combatants to send small armies through the forts to loot and pillage the countryside, so that defenders and attackers both have meaningful choices beyond just sieging down fort after fort.

Second, fort level "contests" make no sense outside of a highly abstract board game. Fort garrisons generally did not collapse because the fort in a neighboring province was bigger and newer. A fort is a fort, and even an old fort can create headaches for invading armies. This also creates perverse incentives to invade right after upgrading forts in order to be able to immediately seize enemy frontier defenses. It is both nonsensical and bad gameplay in one awful package.

Suggestion:

Get rid of fort contests entirely.

Third, insta-occupation is ahistorical, allows attackers to grab huge swathes of land at minimal effort, forces the defender into a weird game of whack-a-mole, and turns frontier defense into an all-or-nothing proposition.

Historically, at least in Europe, all towns of any substance had some sort of fortification, even if it was a crumbling medieval wall. Those fortifications could fairly rapidly be bolstered with earthern walls and bastions which would require substantial time and effort to take. A hundred soldiers could not have simply walked around taking "control" of anything more substantial than a barn.
 
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First the Nation Designer, then province development, and now this? PDS is on fire! I haven't been this excited about EU since I first got into it. Way to recapture the magic!
 
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To all the players that want a maintenance slider on mothballed fortresses, I want to remind you that actual garrison size have a much smaller impact on siege length than CK2. Its only effect are:
  • How many troops you need to besiege it -> only meaningful if you are planning to do carpet sieges (less likely to happen in the new system), or if you want to detach a besieging army while hunting the opponent army (not possible anymore if the opponent is deep in its own protected territory).
  • Whether a sortie can win against the besieging army -> not very relevant if you have enough troops to besiege it already.
  • Whether an assault against unbreached walls will be too costly or not -> only the case for very small garrisons.
  • Whether an assault against breached walls will be too costly or not -> only the case for small garrisons.
My point is that as soon as the garrison is above the level where the besieging player won't try to assault it, any further increase in garrison size will only have a very limited benefit. Starting a war with all your garrisons at 20% (of minimum 5000 full garrison sizes) is almost as good as starting a war with all your garrisons at 100%. This is where a slider won't work, since the optimal solution would be to always put it at low (but not too low) levels, to barely avoid assaults, thus saving money with barely any disadvantage. A toggle between full garrisons and infinitesimal garrisons (10 men), however, is much clearer in its impact: if you want to save money, then you will allow your forts to be assaulted.
 
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zmarcos

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I have some issues with these proposed changes.

1. Most provinces in Europe had fortifications. For example France in 1815 had 90 active fortresses or around two per province with around 196,000 men assigned to defend them.
2. Fortresses did not have permanent garrisons of up to 35,000 men. They had much smaller garrisons but could act as refuges for defeated or over-matched field forces. I'd suggest a level 3 fort (15,000 men) should have a 3,000 man garrison but also enable 12 field regiments to take shelter in it. These extra mouths to feed speed up the surrender of the fort due to starvation meaning relief forces need to be mobilised and despatched.
3. Fortresses did not prevent an army from moving past them. What they did was leave a threat in the army's rear if they were bypassed and not besieged. It would be fine to slow down the movement of an army trying to bypass a fortress, but not prevent it. If an army isolates itself in enemy territory it should not be possible for losses to be replaced.
4. To gain control of adjacent provinces, a part of the garrison has to leave the safety of the fort for some days and expose itself to risk from enemy field forces. With what I suggested in 2, it should be necessary for troops in the garrison to leave and travel to the adjacent province before control changes.
5. A bigger fortress is not automatically better than a smaller one. There are two metrics - size and quality. For example in the early period of the game a large city may have medieval (fort quality 2) walls behind which 35,000 men can hide while late in the game a province may have a small fort built by Vauban (fort quality 4) that can only have a maximum of 5,000 men but it is much more resistant to sieges than the large city if it hasn't been upgraded.
Add to this list: shipyards.
I doubt every coastal province was building ships.
 
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WhiskyGlen

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This fort system sounds interesting and potentially good while also having an equal chance of being horrible. If you want something completely realistic, it's great. As expansion will be minimal now. But if you do enjoy map painting, those days are likely going to be gone. Although, this seems to bring up an easy exploit. Does the AI mothball forts? If they do, and if garrison recovery is even slower than before, then it would be easy to just assault fort after with a medium stack. I think this system would work good if fronts were essential like Hearts of Iron. But since fronts are not a part of EUIV, this just seems to be very worrisome...

*edit* I should have read fully before commenting. It appears it is now a frontal system..
 
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Johan

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Is fort level avaible tied to tech level (unlocked approximately at each century) or is it like - 1618 bam, fort level 5 for you, you you and you?

Military Tech
 
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King Leto

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Very interesting and cool changes, I have a question though.

Will there be a peace option comparable Victoria 2's "Dismantle Fortifications" where you can demand the loser's forts in a province or even region to be downgraded or even destroyed? This would be a pretty viable peace demand for long term conflicts in strategic regions.
 
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DominusNovus

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The problem arises then you are so rich to build so so many forts in a tight area and so rich that you never have to mothball them, then you are pretty much invincible as the enemy will be forced to take massive attrition, even mercs I think add to WE even though they maybe should not.

Sounds like the Netherlands, historically, during this period to me.
 
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King Iapetus

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Please let there be a graphic on the map for forts. I really don't want to have to change to the fort map mode every time I want to see where the forts are or click around all the provinces to find one
 
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CNY10000

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Thanks for the nice patch. I always desire old system improvement more than new features.

Just one question. I like to see the sources of my forcelimits in detail but what if I have too many provinces?
 
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