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Today is thursday, the day of the God of Thunder, so what is a more appropriate way to celebrate than with a development diary for Europa Univeralis IV. We’ve talked about development and politics the last few weeks, so now its time to talk a bit more about warfare again, before going back to more peacetime-related activities.

All of this mentioned in this development diary will be in the free update accompanying the next expansion.

Fortress Rework
Connecting a bit to the previous reveal of our change to how building works, we have overhauled the fortress system.

There are now four different forts, one available each century, providing 1, 3, 5 and 7 fort-levels each. A newer fort makes the previous obsolete, so you only have 1 fort in each province. Each fortress also provides 5000 garrison per fort level, so besieging a fortress now requires a large investment.

Forts now also require maintenance to be paid each month, which currently costs about 1.5 ducats for a level 1 fort per month in 1444. Luckily, you can mothball a fortress which makes it drop to just 10 men defending it, and won’t cost you anything in upkeep.

Garrison growth for a fort is also a fair amount slower than before, so after you have taken a fort, you may want to stick around to protect it for a bit.

What is most important to know though, is that forts now have a Zone of Control. First of all, they will automatically take control of any adjacent province that does not have any forts that is adjacent and hostile to them. If two fortress compete over the same province, then the one with highest fort-level wins and in case of a tie, control goes to the owner of the province. Secondly, you can not walk past a fortress and its zone of control, as you have to siege down the blocking fort first.

Each capital have a free fort-level, but that fort will not have any ZoC, as most minor nations can not afford a major fortress.

fH0WehV.jpg



Looting
As we promised, we have now completely revised how looting works. Now there is a “pile” of possible loot in a province, which is directly tied to have developed the province is.

At the end of each month, all hostile units in a province attempt to loot, and the amount they loot depend on how many regiments you have there, and what types they are, where cavalry is by far the best. Some ideas and governments increase the amount you loot each month, where for example Steppe Hordes gains a nice boost.

A province starts recovering from being looted when 6 months have passed since last loot, and it takes up to a year until it has fully recovered.

Of course, the penalty on a province from being looted is still there until it has fully recovered, but it is scaled on how much have been looted.

Ea5YCKh.jpg


Committed Armies
One of the major complaints we have had on the combat in Eu4, has been the fact that you can fully abort your movement whenever you liked. This have been changed, and now you can’t abort your movement if you have already moved 50% of the way. After all, its just common sense that a unit that have already moved halfway between the centers of two provinces is already in the second one.

Force Limits
We felt that the calculations of forcelimits where far too hidden from the player, Players saw stuff like “+25.87 from Provinces”, which based based on projections of base-tax amongst other things, and sometimes those dropped for no obvious reasons.

Now you will be able to see in each province how much it provides to your forcelimits, and we have cleaned up the logic.

Each level of development gives 0.1 land and naval forcelimit.
Overseas will provide -2 land and -2 naval forcelimit
Inland provinces will not provide any naval forcelimit.
However, a province will never be able to provide negative forcelimits.

A nation also have a base value of +3 land and +2 naval force limit, and there are some other ways to get direct forcelimit increased, that are not just percentage increases.

IRmTjoZ.jpg



Next week, we'll be back and talk more about The Devout.
 

frankatank109

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In real life not everyone fortress were capable to block movement deeper into country.
The more is garrison, the greater its ability to interrupt communications with the army of the enemy, which is passed the the fortress and headed inland.

With requisition supply system, as in the armies of revolutionary France, the role of forts has reduced almost to nothing.

I don't view it as the fort blocking the men, I view it as the army's supply lines being broken by the other nation's military. It wouldn't make too sense in the extreme late game years, but that is a pretty small part of the game.
 

ppigor

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Late game?
Systematic use of requisition supply system as the main system started with Wallenstein during the Thirty Years War.
The next step was a using of magazines, introduced by Louvois.
For the era of the Napoleonic wars typically were used a mixed system including both magazines and requisition.
 

Lemont Elwood

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I thought that this originally meant for the El Dorado expansion, but apparently not, since my game certainly doesn't have this. I'm somewhat excited, but I'm a bit worried: won't forts make combat too static? The combat system entirely revolves around maneuvering between provinces, and it sounds like forts will make the attacker a sitting duck.

Oh, and thank god for committed armies. It always frustrated me when small enemy armies would sit indecisively because I started to stir.

EDIT: Okay, yeah, with the amount of money that it's going to cost to keep those forts going, it may not be that big of a problem. I can just imagine the potential of fortifications in the Pyrennes, or of one in Savoy...
 
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oak

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Why can't we have both this new mechanic and supply lines? :D
Let armies move past forts but massively increase attrition rate if they do so, to stimulate supply lines being harrassed/cut off
 

turnad

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I would love if in future patches they make it so that a generals mobility ranking affects their abilities in ZOC's, like being able to slip through one to attack at the unprotected provinces.
 

gall

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Well prior to Napoleon (change to army organisation, army move in small units, they all meet just a while prior to battle), even talented commanders couldn't just go around fortress. They need supplies for their armies. Maybe ZoC could be ignored if you block province - you have way more troops than garrison to prevent them from sorties against your supply train (or use massive forces to protect them directly). If enemy manage to lift siege, your armies not in ZoC all die or something. AI won't handle this. BTW it would be good if low morale would generate attrition.
You really think it would be good to allow movement away from ZoC, but give something like 25x normal attrition + -100% max morale (let's be generous: -2 times normal attrition and +10% max morale per maneuver point of leader)? How it change anything? In 99% situation nothing..
 

spinoza013

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Thanks for actually replying with why you disliked my post - I'm finding it quite frustrating when people click that they disagree with a post but don't say why.

Something I said in my earliest post on this topic was that armies should be able to move through provinces with enemy forts but at a slower rate than normal (because they can't use the main road because its dominated by the fort) and that if an army can't trace a line of provinces free of unbesieged enemy forts back to friendly territory then it can't replace losses (this reflects not having a valid supply line). These shouldn't be too difficult to code and they allow a more realistic approach to warfare in this period. I'll advocate for more realism every time where possible and I don't think that the proposals outlined in the DD are realistic or necessary due to AI limitations.


I'm with you on more realism but I'm worried AI manpower would just tank as they seem pretty poor at attrition management.
 

RaptorCommander

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What do you mean by that?

"To avoid exploits : Zone of control rule should be calculated on Garrison size not fort level."

Bit late but what I meant by that is that if it is only by level then you can use low upkeep forts to take territory from provinces form a lower level fort that has high upkeep. Despite the lower level high upkeep fort having more men.
 

Lady_Sinful

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Supply lines would also be great... would remove militarty access being handed out so easily. Who wants a foreign army marching through their lands?
Seiging Russia would be stupid then.
 

Mansa Sekou

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Will Blockading still have the same effect on coastal Provices, even if they don't have forts? And what about te ones that do have forts? Is it the same +2 bonus or is it different?
 

Ithron

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Will your own armies also loot the province? Historically it took till modern times for the army system to develop to such level that soldiers no longer had to rely on scavenging (e.g. looting). It took centralized states lots of time, funds and effort to develop and keep up systems of regular salaries to conscripts, so that they could actually *buy* their provision instead of *taking* it. It take even more time for armies to develop a steady supply lifelines so that armies no longer would rely just on the local resources. Sure, own armies shouldn't put the looting level on the same level as it is for invading army that wishes to pillage and destroy. But still, no province till ~18th century was glad to see a marching army go through it - be it own or foreign.
 

rizla7

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no wait, stop... hold your horses!

this is too much micro for defense... the fortress bit... you'll be busy the entire war flipping funding sliders around for various provinces as the enemy force-marches their troops to the other side right past all the ones you just funded ;o

honestly, not quite realistic, as IRL, the enemy could march their troops out of said fort and attack your flank/rear during a major engagement...
 
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no wait, stop... hold your horses!

this is too much micro for defense... the fortress bit... you'll be busy the entire war flipping funding sliders around for various provinces as the enemy force-marches their troops to the other side right past all the ones you just funded ;o
I guess that if you try this, it will be too late!!!!:eek:

Why?
Probably, will take time to reinforce, and you wil be steamrolled.

Better to use your savings (or borrow, or something like that) at the start of the war.
 

rizla7

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Maybe you are so powerful, that is easier to just steamroll your adversaries.

what's the point of building forts in the first place then? if you're building them, you're gonna lose, is what you're saying, because you are by definition 'weaker' ;p lol

essentially, it will boil down to a pointless micro game, where you fund all their claimed provinces just to piss them off... but you will lose anyways, just remember that ;p
 
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zmarcos

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what's the point of building forts in the first place then? if you're building them, you're gonna lose, is what you're saying, because you are by definition 'weaker' ;p lol

essentially, it will boil down to a pointless micro game, where you fund all their claimed provinces just to piss them off...
If your business is not WAR, sprinkle the frontiers with forts, and live in peace. Because anytime soon, someone will declare war. Then you can build the forces, or concentrate them in the right place.
 

rizla7

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If your business is not WAR, sprinkle the frontiers with forts, and live in peace.

the only peace i can agree with is if you become my vassal ;p then we can agree. lol diplo+influence ideas, 8-10 vassals. funny stuff ;)

i was trying to figure out how to turn them all into marches, and then realized you need AOW for that. only 20$ and you can have marches/mothball fleets too ;p ok, maybe that's not completely fair, it does have a lot of other features, like vassal war objectives (although not sure how that system works).

in the commonwealth game, the vassals provide some 120-150k forcelimit? it'd be pretty funny if they were all marches and i expanded them... ;\