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Today is thursday, the day of the God of Thunder, so what is a more appropriate way to celebrate than with a development diary for Europa Univeralis IV. We’ve talked about development and politics the last few weeks, so now its time to talk a bit more about warfare again, before going back to more peacetime-related activities.

All of this mentioned in this development diary will be in the free update accompanying the next expansion.

Fortress Rework
Connecting a bit to the previous reveal of our change to how building works, we have overhauled the fortress system.

There are now four different forts, one available each century, providing 1, 3, 5 and 7 fort-levels each. A newer fort makes the previous obsolete, so you only have 1 fort in each province. Each fortress also provides 5000 garrison per fort level, so besieging a fortress now requires a large investment.

Forts now also require maintenance to be paid each month, which currently costs about 1.5 ducats for a level 1 fort per month in 1444. Luckily, you can mothball a fortress which makes it drop to just 10 men defending it, and won’t cost you anything in upkeep.

Garrison growth for a fort is also a fair amount slower than before, so after you have taken a fort, you may want to stick around to protect it for a bit.

What is most important to know though, is that forts now have a Zone of Control. First of all, they will automatically take control of any adjacent province that does not have any forts that is adjacent and hostile to them. If two fortress compete over the same province, then the one with highest fort-level wins and in case of a tie, control goes to the owner of the province. Secondly, you can not walk past a fortress and its zone of control, as you have to siege down the blocking fort first.

Each capital have a free fort-level, but that fort will not have any ZoC, as most minor nations can not afford a major fortress.

fH0WehV.jpg



Looting
As we promised, we have now completely revised how looting works. Now there is a “pile” of possible loot in a province, which is directly tied to have developed the province is.

At the end of each month, all hostile units in a province attempt to loot, and the amount they loot depend on how many regiments you have there, and what types they are, where cavalry is by far the best. Some ideas and governments increase the amount you loot each month, where for example Steppe Hordes gains a nice boost.

A province starts recovering from being looted when 6 months have passed since last loot, and it takes up to a year until it has fully recovered.

Of course, the penalty on a province from being looted is still there until it has fully recovered, but it is scaled on how much have been looted.

Ea5YCKh.jpg


Committed Armies
One of the major complaints we have had on the combat in Eu4, has been the fact that you can fully abort your movement whenever you liked. This have been changed, and now you can’t abort your movement if you have already moved 50% of the way. After all, its just common sense that a unit that have already moved halfway between the centers of two provinces is already in the second one.

Force Limits
We felt that the calculations of forcelimits where far too hidden from the player, Players saw stuff like “+25.87 from Provinces”, which based based on projections of base-tax amongst other things, and sometimes those dropped for no obvious reasons.

Now you will be able to see in each province how much it provides to your forcelimits, and we have cleaned up the logic.

Each level of development gives 0.1 land and naval forcelimit.
Overseas will provide -2 land and -2 naval forcelimit
Inland provinces will not provide any naval forcelimit.
However, a province will never be able to provide negative forcelimits.

A nation also have a base value of +3 land and +2 naval force limit, and there are some other ways to get direct forcelimit increased, that are not just percentage increases.

IRmTjoZ.jpg



Next week, we'll be back and talk more about The Devout.
 

Torugu

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This all sounds very nice, but I have one big concern:

What happens to building/conversion/coring/etc. in a province that is occupied? It was bad enough when you lost 150 ADM power and 15 months of build time to an occupying army in the old system, but when that happened it was your fault for letting them siege out that province in the first place. With the new system I can imagine a horror scenario where you lose hundreds of ADM power of years of missionary progress, just because 2 regiments managed to slip through gap in your defenses.

And what if your newly conquered provinces border a higher level fort and that fort's owner declares war on you? OPM Ulm could in theory instantly do decades worth of damage in ADM power to Mega-Blob-of-Death-Conquered-Spain-and-Britain-France simply by pressing the Declare War button and having a fort in the right place.

Now if they change it to that occupation merely holds construction progress instead of resetting it, then I'm all in favor.
 
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Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha........

That's England laughing all the way to the Bank. Sounds like maintenance will be very expensive for some. Imagine a small rich nation fortified the eyeballs, it will be a bitch to defeat.
That'll be the Netherlands in the 16th, 17th & 18th centuries.

I do like the idea of fort dismantling being in a peace treaty, please add that, pretty please, go on add that.
 
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Denkt

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I'm sorry, but how?
The cost of developing increase each time you develop the province (it is not based on how developt the province is but how many times you have developed the province). So with 5 provinces you can develop 5 in a turn compared to 3 before which will give you more development for your monarch points.
 
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Wish I could help you with books but I learned a lot about it during my course on Military History. For the most part the major change was that up untill the Napoleonic wars the land wasn't able to sustain a large amount of people so armies had to be supplied from further away, meaning lines of supply were very important and forts could cut those off, making it suicidal to have a fortress behind you that you didn't control. Due to major changes around the Napoleonic era in the agricultural output smaller amounts of land could sustain a larger amount of people allowing armies to forrage off the land, making it less important if there was a fortress behind you as your supply lines were less essential, allowing for deeper penetration into enemy lands, more manouvering and making battles more decisive.

Very interesting thank you for the response! I did some additional searching with Google and I saw some comments referring to advances in cannon weaponry which caused sieges to end much faster than in eras previous. Apparently this meant military leaders preferred to have a pitch battle and have the outcome decided in the field of battle before it came to a siege where the besieging forces had a good advantage. Does this match up with what you understand?

How Paradox can attempt to model all this will be interesting. It seems with the 'can't move past enemy fortresses' mechanic it is supporting the idea that you never want an enemy fortress behind you. The mechanics just make it so you don't/can't make the 'dumb mistake'. It would seem better though to tie this back to supply limit as well. Maybe Paradox is going to change that too. In order to represent the Napoleonic era, maybe at a certain tech level you would be able to by-pass the 'can't move past enemy fortresses' rule and the side effect of larger supply limits due to tech level represents the ability to forage off the land better. This would effectively mean that with that tech level, warfare becomes a bit more like EUIV is now where you can send your armies all over the place, but prior to that time there is the increased importance of the forts and fort mechanics.

Now I just hope Paradox does it the way I just envisioned it. :)
 
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In every single war, armies have been able to outmaneuver forts and their garrisons. During the Hundred Years War, English armies raided the French countryside at will while French garrisons looked on.
Sometimes. John of Gaunt lost a whole army on his chevauchée from Calais to Burgundy, without managing to fight a single pitched battle.

Homer2101 said:
Historically, at least in Europe, all towns of any substance had some sort of fortification, even if it was a crumbling medieval wall. Those fortifications could fairly rapidly be bolstered with earthern walls and bastions which would require substantial time and effort to take. A hundred soldiers could not have simply walked around taking "control" of anything more substantial than a barn.
One of the problems the French had in the Hundred Years War was that France was over-fortified. It was easy for a couple of dozen raiders to capture a small town or a fortified abbey by stealth and use their new base to terrorise the surrounding countryside. Besieging a routier garrison was immensely more expensive and difficult for the French than establishing one was for the English.
 
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What the people in the first 10 or so pages haven't seemed to catch on to is that a Fort has Maintenance Cost, Construction cost AND opportunity cost. Remember from the earlier Dev Diary that provinces have limited building slots so if you decide to build a fort you are forgoing the construction of something else.

To avoid exploits : Zone of control rule should be calculated on Garrison size not fort level.

If main concern I have is that Forts and Sorties essentially give free manpower to the defenders, I say that either the total fort cant sortie or forts work as in MOTE and you need to garrison units in them to brief the number up.
 
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So in your same example, an army which has marched 19 days into a province which contains an enemy army, should then be able to turn back on day 19, and walk 9 days out of the province and we're supposed to simply imagine that the enemy army just sits in the province wondering where they got to. The point is, once you're 50% through, you've crossed the rubicon so to speak, there's no turning back as you're already committed to the move.
 
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Will we be able to put some of our infantry from army into garrison when we conquer a fort?

Edit: Seems like baiting AI armies got a lot easier :)
 
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Wait is this for a DLC or a big patch? I'm still waiting for the rest of the converter religions, Zoroastrianism in particular.
Are they coming with this patch? Or is it a separate thing?
The patch will be released alongside the DLC.
 
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June/July sounds perfect and like people have said, if you look at their previous major expansions releases you get a good time scale of when the next one will be released.
 
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I am sceptical to whether or not the playability of this game suffers from these updates.

You do know that at any point you can just lock yourself to the desired game version and stick to it, right?

In Steam, right-click the game, chose properties and then the beta tab. At the moment you can go back as far as v1.4.1 (seems 1.3 was removed).
It's actually nice. Don't like the new changes, stick with version you liked best :)
 
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At last I can sign up after several days "not working"....

Question about the fortress and ZOC:
- I own a province with no fort, and it is not adjacent to another fort, and I have an army there.
- On the other side of the border, there is a fortress.
- War is declared.
- Do I automatically lose control of my province because the ennemy has a fort adjacent to it and I don't, even if I have an army there?

Personnally, I don't like this ZOC idea very much, if I understand it correctly.

I don't like that a fortress can automatically control alll the adjacent provinces if they are not protected by a bigger fort. Day one of a war, all the provinces adjacent to a ennemy fort and not to one of mine immediately change side! I can't imagine an example in history when this happened. Fortresses are to prevent the ennemy for coming to your place, not to project power and capture the ennemy

- I think it should still be mandatory to send an army to a province to get control. And it shouldn't be immediate. However, we could consider that an province without any fortress could be "besieged" in a relatively short time (one week? One month?) Minimum time to get control of the administration there.

- to keep control of a province, you should keep a regiment there, or be adjacent to a fort (so fort don't give an automatic control of a province, but allows keeping control once the province has been captured.

- I like better the fact that a fortress stops the movement of ennemy units until captured. But I think it should still be possible to cover the fortress and move further in ennemy territory, as it was possible before. If the fortress is surrounded and besieged, it cannot prevent the besieging army from moving, except if the fortress is a "full size fortification of the whole border". But then the fortress would protect only one border, and so prevent movement from only one direction.

So, why not have a better supply line mechanism? With a large increase of attrition if an army tries to go beyond a besieged fortress?
 
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sodoma

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I would like to design boats.
-Thickness of bulkheads
-number of cannon
-number of boat decks
-etc etc

Being able , detail , design the boat.
With its price according add things and their pros and cons

Something similar to what is being done now to HOIIV
 
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Lemont Elwood

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Maybe loot could be tied into supply? For non-Horde nations, looting was more about feeding your army than about getting rich. Maybe Supply Limits should be much lower, but Loot acts a sort of extension on your Supply Limit that can eventually run out. Or, armies would carry an amount of "supply" which has to be topped off at friendly Forts or sucked up via Looting, with "Supply Lines" of occupation running from friendly territory (or coastal provinces) to the nearest fort.
 
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LordSolar

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Also, does this indicate the removal of the World Conquest achievement? It's already difficult enough, but it would have to be impossible if you can't carpet siege. Because if I understand this correctly, carpet sieges are now a thing of history if you cannot pass a fort without defeating a fort. Going to stink beating back hordes of French mercenaries as you try to siege their border provinces. lol
If you take control of the fort you also get thr surrounding provinces, so that will speed it up a litttle
 
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