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Today is thursday, the day of the God of Thunder, so what is a more appropriate way to celebrate than with a development diary for Europa Univeralis IV. We’ve talked about development and politics the last few weeks, so now its time to talk a bit more about warfare again, before going back to more peacetime-related activities.

All of this mentioned in this development diary will be in the free update accompanying the next expansion.

Fortress Rework
Connecting a bit to the previous reveal of our change to how building works, we have overhauled the fortress system.

There are now four different forts, one available each century, providing 1, 3, 5 and 7 fort-levels each. A newer fort makes the previous obsolete, so you only have 1 fort in each province. Each fortress also provides 5000 garrison per fort level, so besieging a fortress now requires a large investment.

Forts now also require maintenance to be paid each month, which currently costs about 1.5 ducats for a level 1 fort per month in 1444. Luckily, you can mothball a fortress which makes it drop to just 10 men defending it, and won’t cost you anything in upkeep.

Garrison growth for a fort is also a fair amount slower than before, so after you have taken a fort, you may want to stick around to protect it for a bit.

What is most important to know though, is that forts now have a Zone of Control. First of all, they will automatically take control of any adjacent province that does not have any forts that is adjacent and hostile to them. If two fortress compete over the same province, then the one with highest fort-level wins and in case of a tie, control goes to the owner of the province. Secondly, you can not walk past a fortress and its zone of control, as you have to siege down the blocking fort first.

Each capital have a free fort-level, but that fort will not have any ZoC, as most minor nations can not afford a major fortress.

fH0WehV.jpg



Looting
As we promised, we have now completely revised how looting works. Now there is a “pile” of possible loot in a province, which is directly tied to have developed the province is.

At the end of each month, all hostile units in a province attempt to loot, and the amount they loot depend on how many regiments you have there, and what types they are, where cavalry is by far the best. Some ideas and governments increase the amount you loot each month, where for example Steppe Hordes gains a nice boost.

A province starts recovering from being looted when 6 months have passed since last loot, and it takes up to a year until it has fully recovered.

Of course, the penalty on a province from being looted is still there until it has fully recovered, but it is scaled on how much have been looted.

Ea5YCKh.jpg


Committed Armies
One of the major complaints we have had on the combat in Eu4, has been the fact that you can fully abort your movement whenever you liked. This have been changed, and now you can’t abort your movement if you have already moved 50% of the way. After all, its just common sense that a unit that have already moved halfway between the centers of two provinces is already in the second one.

Force Limits
We felt that the calculations of forcelimits where far too hidden from the player, Players saw stuff like “+25.87 from Provinces”, which based based on projections of base-tax amongst other things, and sometimes those dropped for no obvious reasons.

Now you will be able to see in each province how much it provides to your forcelimits, and we have cleaned up the logic.

Each level of development gives 0.1 land and naval forcelimit.
Overseas will provide -2 land and -2 naval forcelimit
Inland provinces will not provide any naval forcelimit.
However, a province will never be able to provide negative forcelimits.

A nation also have a base value of +3 land and +2 naval force limit, and there are some other ways to get direct forcelimit increased, that are not just percentage increases.

IRmTjoZ.jpg



Next week, we'll be back and talk more about The Devout.
 

WhiskyGlen

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This entire post is giving me the mental image of you going to war and your adviser saying "we can't move our armies sir, our enemies have constructed a fort in the nearby mountains!" Then you go outside and look at a bunch of french men sitting on their fort taunting you.

Level 7 fort = 35,000 garrison. That is going to be a lot of attrition on the besieging army... if they maintain the option to sally forth, that is going to be a helluva stack added to the battle. Especially if they were to program the AI to use that option. Would make taking human controlled level 5 or 7 forts nearly impossible.
 
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Wrong, it's just neighboring province


Bold mine

You best not spread misinformation if you can't be bothered to read. I'm just saying.

Eh, desinformation? We are just asking, guessing, and speculating, just like everyone else. And it actually makes for higher-level forts to have a larger ZoC.

So stick to reading developers' posts only if you are getting upset by reading other people's questions, thoughts, and ideas.
 
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I beg you to reconsider your answer/idea.

Why fort on one/my side of border should automatically get control over terrain on the other/enemy side of border? IMO it should not work like that even with provinces without fort, and especially not against any fort.
Forts are defensive feature, unless they have access to rocket launchers and orbital weapons - but that is outside EU timeframe. They should not project anything across border or fort 100 km away.

Capture of fort should allow control (or maybe even give control) of its Zone, and Zones should not overlap.




Example 1 (re provinces over border): country without fort, I build fort 1 on border, dow and instantly get occupation of all country except capital?
Example 2 (re smaller vs larger fort): I capture enemy fort level 7, why should forts level 1/3/5 in neighboring provinces auto-surrender?
Provinces without forts are automatically occupied when an army moves through them. The only thing you will need to siege are provinces with forts.

This fort control thing is then not much different from having to move 1 unit into this fort-less province.
 
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blackchoas

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I beg you to reconsider your answer/idea.

Why fort on one/my side of border should automatically get control over terrain on the other/enemy side of border? IMO it should not work like that even with provinces without fort, and especially not against any fort.
Forts are defensive feature, unless they have access to rocket launchers and orbital weapons - but that is outside EU timeframe. They should not project anything across border or fort 100 km away.

Capture of fort should allow control (or maybe even give control) of its Zone, and Zones should not overlap.




Example 1 (re provinces over border): country without fort, I build fort 1 on border, dow and instantly get occupation of all country except capital?
Example 2 (re smaller vs larger fort): I capture enemy fort level 7, why should forts level 1/3/5 in neighboring provinces auto-surrender?

Forts do not auto yield to other forts, however if two forts overlap in their ZoC than the higher level fort wins out,

I don't really see the complaint anyway, is the argument that because we have a dedicated and well manned and armed military base in a region does not mean that upon declaring war with another nation in that region the forces of said military base should not use their strategic position to control the near by lands and prevent them from sending further aid to the enemy government particularly if there is no enemy military presence in the region?
 
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I am going to concede you are right. I pulled out my old set of RISK instructions and you are right that the teleportation move was a house rule that was included in the manual. Although it does not appear to a be a house rule in the online manual. The word "adjacent" was only used in the main manual where it implies you can only move troops to a next door territory. I still think based on definition, it could be either way, but I am starting to believe you are likely right.

Not to mention that I had a misunderstanding of the word contiguous. My mistake. I am 0 for 100 tonight on everything!
it's OK, it takes courage to admit fault, you're alright.
 
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So what Johan is implying is that if Lübeck has a fort 3 and Schleswig has a fort 1, then once war breaks out, Holstein will go to The Hansa or whomever controls Lübeck.
Yes

So does that mean I can insta-win wars against OPMs by having a big fort standing next to them?

Also, can slighting become a thing?
 
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I think that mothballing forts will add more boring micro into the game. Like if I have 15 forts I need to mothball-demothball them in every serious war. It would be better to add the fort maintenance slider that will affect all of them like with armies/navies with leaving possibility to mothball some of forts manually. And ability to "mothball" armies can be great addition too.

BTW, nice changes. I just got the last #120 achievement and I feel really tired of playing vanilla presenting alomst the same gameplay since release.
 
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A slightly more realistic solution rather than having ZOCs prevent movement is to severely reduce the supply limit within the ZOC to such an extent that taking the fort would basically be essential to keeping your forces in supply. Unfortunately this would probably mean manpower death for the AI. So stopping movement seems like a fair compromise.

I still think an extra penalty to supply limit might be a good addition. Being able to reduce supply to your enemy by controlling fortresses would add to the depth of strategy. Leaving forts behind undefended would be risky.

As I suggested earlier being able to garrison fortresses you have taken would also be desirable.
 
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Johan's answer seemed to indicate opposite, that is why I wrote original reply.
If you want to control enemy province it is YOU who has to send military forces (and usually you do not use fortress garrison for it). What was the range of artillery in EU4 era? How big is province? How do you imagine that ownership of fort in your province gives you control of whole enemy province?

I think it's less about the literal efficacy of a fort and more about what it represents. Without a garrison of some kind in a province, it will, more than likely, revert to local/enemy control, your occupation of a fort ensures the automatic generation of that garrison which the player can construe to be a force maintaining order in the adjacent provinces. It's less micro than actually placing a small force in every province you occupy.
 
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OK, I admit it, however I wanted confirmation from Johan.
Read my example: will simple ownership of fort allow to auto-occupy whole enemy country outside of capital (say in 1444)? IMO you should send troops to do it.
If you do not send troops and receive (for free) 50% warscore at the day of declaration than IMO it is broken feature.

Yeeeah, it does seem odd that your fort would occupy an enemy province... A better solution would be that having an adjacent friendly fort prevents a province from reverting to the enemy after occupation (even with an enemy fort nearby).
 
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Johan said:
Some ideas and governments increase the amount you loot each month, where for example Steppe Hordes gains a nice boost.
My God! TheMeInTeam's head will explode: a horde buff!

I hope he's sitting down while reading Johan's post :p
 
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Thanks, it's cool that a player suggested feature will be implemented!

Well " The Devout" definitely have something to do with theocracy and could be a reference to the suggestion however that don't mean it will be implemented exactly like the suggestion.
It is far from the first time EU4 will use player made suggestions, like this whol expansion is based on player made suggestions.

However even before, player made suggestions have been used, the one Im most knowledgeable with was then paradox made that colonized provinces got permanent 50% mimimum LA if they did not belong to a colonial nation. I and several others however suggested that you should have to pay for the core (which was free) but you should not have any minimum LA.
That suggestion is now how colonized provinces work.
 
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All the things you've mentioned in the last 3 DDs seem good or at least interesting and I'm excited to try them out. However.... the movement locked in at 50% seems to me that it will be orders of magnitude more exploitable than the system we had before. Ok the strange AI army dance will probably be slightly reduced but trapping the AI into very bad movement decisions is now going to be even more easy and powerfull!

Also please tell me that your going to sort out the mess that is military access with this patch.
 
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omega20056

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We want it now! Please, release it soon. This will be a complete overhaul of the game. If you rework also naval system, and coastal provinces to a similar way where coastal fortified provinces are virtually unsiegable without naval blockade it will give the game a new flavour, even more, to merchant republics who tends to conquer important trade provinces and a new way to defend it!

One thing the game was ignoring is that if you don't break the walls of a coastal fortified city, you can replenish supplies by sea. That was the reason that Constantinople never fell until cannons were developed enough to break the walls.
The Ottomans cannons were actually pretty useless against the Theodosian Walls. They took so long to reload and were so inaccurate that by the time they were ready to fire again, the Byzantine troops had repaired the damage. The Ottomans were only able to enter the city because somebody left a postern gate unlocked.
 
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Me_

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How do the changes affect the knights? Do they still start with the best fort? It might seem pretty bad for them now that forts cost upkeep.
 
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BFTeixeira

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You should make naval blockades take control of coastal provinces that don't have an army in them or aren't part of any zone of control.
Alentejo's capital is about 90 kms in-land. How can you control that with a naval blockade? At most, it would make sense for one province islands.
 
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saied_88

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Awesome new concepts, seems like warfare is finally getting some love and my annoyance will finally come to an end!

I remember reading the thread you started a while back and I shared a lot of your annoyances myself. Logistics and the concept of a 'front' were literally non existent and this new fort system looks like it will finally make warfare a little more historical and realistic. Blitzing your way through your enemy's borders straight to the capital with no regard to supply lines or logistics is ridiculous from a realism point of view. Game wise it wasn't exactly game breaking but this new change definitely adds more strategy to warfare - a part of the game that still needs a lot of love. It seems like the devs have really taken all the complaining to heart and have given us an almost completely new game now. Very optimistic about the features we still haven't been told about. So far so good.

The only thing that has me really thinking is how rebels function with this new mechanic. If rebels spawn in one of the provinces in your heartland, which is less likely to be fortified like your borders, then you're potentially facing insta occupation of a fair amount of provinces before the rebels are ZOC'd by a fort. Ofcourse the player can now predict when rebellions will spawn so it's not like you're going to be blindsided completely but still this makes them considerably more dangerous. There's just way too much potential for espionage in this new update. They really need to give it some attention - it's probably one of the easiest ways to make peace time more interesting.

Lastly, I'd like to raise the question of how army tradition will work in the next patch. We all know that the most efficient way to gain army tradition is through carpet sieging. At this point I don't think anyone will be able to fully digest the implications of the new fort system before playing, but I think it's reasonable to say that there will be far more major battles and far less minor skirmishes? Think about it, the majority of wars are going to be a tug of war around key fortresses and for the most part you're going to be sieging with pretty big stacks now. Couple that with the fact that you wont be able to chase down shattered armies so easily anymore and you have far less battles per war. So perhaps battles will now net you a hefty amount of army tradition scaling with the size of the forces engaged?
 
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