EU4 - Development Diary - 6th of February 2018

[caedussl]

Jake certainly likes to create mechanics that go against how he plays. Never paid his units outside of wartime, then he adds professionalism. Always gets behind on non-mil tech, adds innovativeness. I'd like to think there's a whiteboard in the PDS office where all the new ideas for Europa mechanics goes, with a title underlined at the top, "countering Jake strats".

Can we please not have more arbitrary penalties for being behind on tech? The pros to being ahead on tech is the technology itself and the cons of being behind are that you are missing out on tech. Can we also talk about how the games timeline is pre industrialization yet you are adding coal to the game for some reason? Also, why are you buffing Britain? In almost every single mp game I am in, Britain is the #1 on income and navy, why would you significantly increase their might with more provinces and new lush resources such as coal?

There's too many benefits currently to lag behind on non-military tech (especially dip tech). This incentives not waiting, and it finally gives a benefit for taking tech early, instead of it being a waste of monarch points. It doesn't seem like a penalty to not go for innovativeness, however, as you're not penalized for not having that figure high. So I'd argue it's definitely not an arbitrary penalty. It gives a different way to play, which is good in my mind.

 

[XYN]

First of all I want to apologize for my tone prior to my comments. They represent my frustration as I expect that you come up with truly innovative ideas in 3 months time. Because that is what Paradox does or at least did so far: they come up with truly mind blowing concepts and introduce us new ways of thinking in terms of gameplay and sometimes history itself. However I am getting disappointed further down the road in this immersion pack. You have managed to add less and less(by less I mean shallow concepts)maybe except the mission tree system.
1- ındustrialization. Seriously? You could have done so much with this concept but no. We are instead stuck with yet another trade good that helps nothing bu further money creep that is already beyond measure. Changes in society, equality, pollution, child labour, democracy, globalization of production are but a few. This feels like you have added this just to be doing something, just to pass another week in dev diaries. My critization stands if no further changes or satisfying mechanics are added to industrialization.
2-you bring innovativeness which is cool but still we dont need further power creep. We are already swimming in monarch power past 1600 when money is no longer a problem. This way we will need idea groups to be enlarged with new features(10 idea per group for example).
Imho you could have spent time actually improving the game like you did with Great Powers, Institutions.
3- ımmersion packs so far added administrative functionality for the countries they are focused on(russia, timurids, and mameluks)but you havent changed British monarchy as far as I can tell from the announcement which begs the question: did England need an inmersion pack?

These are my disappointments so far.
Kind regards.

Yep. Raw buffs for already extremely powerful England, money for the period which doesn't need more money and extremely situational "knowledge sharing"

Innovativeness can be so-so.

The only thing I am solidly positive about is the new missions system. Maybe now the Purple Phoenix DLC will be interesting.

 

[Bearjuden]

Will Britain get it's own buttons ?

Why would Britain be the only nation to get naval doctrines? Everyone else had a navy too. I know it's a Britain focused DLC, but if this is what they do, I'll be awfully disappointed. Why wouldn't the Netherlands, at least, get one; they had a navy every bit as competent as Britains.

Can we also talk about how the games timeline is pre industrialization yet you are adding coal to the game for some reason?

The final hundred years of the game were very much the beginning of the industrial revolution. I have no idea what you're talking about. The goal is that you can't get industrial resources before the late game, which while the numbers may need to be changed, is reflected.

We are instead stuck with yet another trade good that helps nothing bu further money creep that is already beyond measure. Changes in society, equality, pollution, child labour, democracy, globalization of production are but a few.

Okay, we were heading into the industrial revolution, but we weren't that far into it yet. All of the things you mention were either not considered a real issue yet (child labour, pollution, etc) or had been happening over the course of the entire game (societal changes, globalization). I think there's room to expand the concept, but remember this is the very early days of industrialization.

To the main content of the dev diary, it's nice that they're giving you a buff for playing taller, but I still fail to see how this actually gives you a reason to do so outside of roleplaying or just playing a more casual game. Buffs aren't the same as actual things to do; being stronger doesn't make your time spent feel more meaningful.

But I suppose maybe that would be outside the scope of an immersion pack. Someday.

 

[calebman]

Can we please not have more arbitrary penalties for being behind on tech? The pros to being ahead on tech is the technology itself and the cons of being behind are that you are missing out on tech.

 

[CassCD]

I don't I've ever been so cynical towards any feature in any Paradox game before. Why would anyone ever want to share tech with their neighbours? I'm a person who loves to role-play and be a loyal ally a lot of the time but I can also be an arbitrary bitch and ruin former allies just as often. . This really only seems mildly useful for vassals. Why would I ever want to help someone who's just going to be a possible future threat and/or conquest? I truly cannot see myself ever using this feature, it seems like such a fringe benefit . . .

 

[TheDungen]

First of all I want to apologize for my tone prior to my comments. They represent my frustration as I expect that you come up with truly innovative ideas in 3 months time. Because that is what Paradox does or at least did so far: they come up with truly mind blowing concepts and introduce us new ways of thinking in terms of gameplay and sometimes history itself. However I am getting disappointed further down the road in this immersion pack. You have managed to add less and less(by less I mean shallow concepts)maybe except the mission tree system.
1- ındustrialization. Seriously? You could have done so much with this concept but no. We are instead stuck with yet another trade good that helps nothing bu further money creep that is already beyond measure. Changes in society, equality, pollution, child labour, democracy, globalization of production are but a few. This feels like you have added this just to be doing something, just to pass another week in dev diaries. My critization stands if no further changes or satisfying mechanics are added to industrialization.
2-you bring innovativeness which is cool but still we dont need further power creep. We are already swimming in monarch power past 1600 when money is no longer a problem. This way we will need idea groups to be enlarged with new features(10 idea per group for example).
Imho you could have spent time actually improving the game like you did with Great Powers, Institutions.
3- ımmersion packs so far added administrative functionality for the countries they are focused on(russia, timurids, and mameluks)but you havent changed British monarchy as far as I can tell from the announcement which begs the question: did England need an inmersion pack?

These are my disappointments so far.
Kind regards.

Seriously it would be so nice with real population mechanics. And a real economy, a population that need to eat (doing something with the introduction of the potato in this era would be awesome), that can grow, where manpower is not just a number that ticks up and down but the actual sons of your country.
Then the industrial revolution would not primarily be about the money the county owns but changes to the standard of living. Both good and ill.

 

[Mrakvampire]

And yes, again... Industrialization this early (as soon as we get Enlightement, so in ~1705) is not only clearly ahistorical, but also makes this game even more unbalanced (too much income issue, non-stop hordes of mercs issue)

 

[PedroLuiz]

Yep. Raw buffs for already extremely powerful England, money for the period which doesn't need more money and extremely situational "knowledge sharing"

Innovativeness can be so-so.

The only thing I am solidly positive about is the new missions system. Maybe now the Purple Phoenix DLC will be interesting.

and this is in the free patch so you don't have to spend anything

 

[Arthrodira]

well, considering that universities are basically cost free it would be a bad idea

Universities could be made more expensive, or be associated with a maintenance fee. I understand that innovativeness is designed to make ahead-of-time technologies more attractive (which definitely needs to be done); however, now that innovativeness exists, I am curious as to how logically consistent it is with other features. Universities have been in need of a rework for some time - they should be more rare and special (like they used to be before the building system was overhauled). This feels like an obvious fit. Universities in the real world drive innovativeness, not "development."

 

[Orkonkel]

Eeh. The bonuses for being innovative seem sort of lacklustre compared to the investment you must put into gaining and maintaining them.

Feel kinda underwhelmed by this pack. Would've much preferred something to do either with HRE or mechanics that dealt with the colonization and conquests of Asia in the era (Portugal - or any colonizing European AI - should be able to own some Indian lands without resorting to painting the map, as an example).

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

And I hoped for something real innotiative instead of another feature for more powercreep.

So many great ideas for this patch, but in the end all of them, except the reworked missions, are really lackluster and pretty much... unnecessary. Industrialization? We already swim in money at this timeframe. Innovativeness? Wow, another feature which favors rich and big countries and adds a penatly to nations, which are behind in tech, although the penalties are big enough already.

I am playing the game since release and was never so disappointed with the features of a patch/dlc. Everything after the reworked missions killed my hype.

And in the meantime merc spam is still real, the HRE is pretty often a big mess and so is naval combat...

 

[XYN]

and this is in the free patch so you don't have to spend anything

Thank you for your concern about my 15$, but that's sort of not the point of my post.

 

[PrimeYuri]

and this is in the free patch so you don't have to spend anything

No, these are part of the immersion pack and thus costs money

 

[Ulmo]

Why would Britain be the only nation to get naval doctrines? Everyone else had a navy too. I know it's a Britain focused DLC, but if this is what they do, I'll be awfully disappointed. Why wouldn't the Netherlands, at least, get one; they had a navy every bit as competent as Britains.



The final hundred years of the game were very much the beginning of the industrial revolution. I have no idea what you're talking about. The goal is that you can't get industrial resources before the late game, which while the numbers may need to be changed, is reflected.



Okay, we were heading into the industrial revolution, but we weren't that far into it yet. All of the things you mention were either not considered a real issue yet (child labour, pollution, etc) or had been happening over the course of the entire game (societal changes, globalization). I think there's room to expand the concept, but remember this is the very early days of industrialization.

To the main content of the dev diary, it's nice that they're giving you a buff for playing taller, but I still fail to see how this actually gives you a reason to do so outside of roleplaying or just playing a more casual game. Buffs aren't the same as actual things to do; being stronger doesn't make your time spent feel more meaningful.

But I suppose maybe that would be outside the scope of an immersion pack. Someday.

My point was that they introduce a very very shallow concept of “industrialization”(ı doubt that we can call coal mining as industrialization). If you are gonna do it like a last day homework just to be seen as a hardworking student, please dont.

 

[Knight of Nii]

I don't know, this seems like yet another modifier that modifies modifiers, but doesn't create new gameplay mechanics or address existing problems.

Maybe this would have been better if it influenced institutions in some way to address the dev bombing for institutions issue.

 

[Dakka]

did England need an inmersion pack?

I certainly didn’t think so. That’s why I was hoping for a Spanish one... because they are in genuine need of attention. England was fine as is and the immersion pack focus seems to be based more on what country is popular as opposed to what I (and others) view as more important to gameplay...
I understand they are a business and they need to go where the money is but having it centered on England is overall meh, and frustrating even moreso given that there are other regions that legitimately need some attention

 

[Mortheim]

Too much bonuses. I like the idea and, well, it reminds me somewhat of EU3 (investing in technologies>paying "power"), I'm not sure how it will play.

 

[PedroLuiz]

No, these are part of the immersion pack and thus costs money

they are free, but the english expanded mission tree is in the expansion

Thank you for your concern about my 15$, but that's sort of not the point of my post.

no, i was endorsing your complain by saying that if you don't play as england this is basacally useless

 

[Pbanned]

wait...please!!! inovativeness should be calculated in region or nighbours. for example the aztecs never can have one inovativeness even if had best technology in that region.
thanks.

 

[Dakka]

real innotiative

Except, we did get innovativeness literally.

I am playing the game since release and was never so disappointed with the features of a patch/dlc.

I don't I've ever been so cynical towards any feature in any Paradox game before.

You guys clearly weren’t here when corruption and victory cards were introduced