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EU4 - Development Diary - 6th of August 2019

Good day and welcome to another Development Diary for EU4's upcoming European Update + Expansion. After enjoying a plethora of maps, missions and other content work from our esteemed content designers, I'm here to turn our attention towards the mechanical changes and additions we can look forward to in said European update.

We're going to start with Mercenaries. Not too long ago, I penned a dev diary outlining our ambitions with mercenaries

I'll take this moment to draw attention to the fact that the UI and numbers are far from final

6th Aud DD macro.jpg


In the upcoming Euro update, the old method of recruiting mercenary units one by one in individual provinces is replaced by the action of hiring Mercenary Companies. Mercenary Companies are complete armies of pure mercenaries, as such will not consume from your manpower pool. They can be recruited in any of your core provinces, where they spawn at full strength, but with low morale.

Mercenary Companies come in two flavours: Local Mercenaries and Foreign Mercenaries.

All nations have three bands of local mercenaries available for recruitment, ranging in size from small to large, capped at a minimum of 2 units and a maximum of 40, depending on the development of your nation. Other than the fact that all nations will have local mercenaries available for hire, there is nothing special about them.

6th Aud DD company available.jpg


Things get a little more interesting with foreign mercenaries. Across the world, there will be foreign mercenary companies, tied to a province of origin; the Free Swiss Guard from Bern, the Flemish Company from Vlaanderen, the Raiders from Navajo etc. These companies come with their own General who is loyal to that unit and that unit only. They also can have different costs and modifiers on the unit, depending on which company you hire from. These companies can spawn and despawn over the course of the grand campaign, but no matter how much you want any particular mercenary company, you can only recruit Mercenary Companies within your trade range. So while you may feel confident invading a colonial Portugal, know that they may well have a far larger pool of Mercenary Companies to draw upon.

6th Aud DD Frisians.jpg


So let's take a closer look at the mercenary units themselves. They are typically more expensive than your standard nation's armies, although those costs compared to the current 1.28 mercenaries are likely to be reduced. This is largely due to how Mercenaries will no longer have unlimited manpower, able to feed themselves with coins and bandage wounds with solid gold. No, from the upcoming European update and going forward, Mercenaries will have their own local manpower, unique for their army

6th Aud DD local manpower.jpg


Not to belabour the point, but UI and numbers shown and discussed here are far from final

Once you hire, for example, this Cossack Host, they will replenish any lost souls from their own unique manpower pool until, eventually, they will be completely exhausted and no longer able fight at full strength, leaving them liable to be wiped out in battle. Our intention here is for mercenary companies to be the muscle you flex in times of war and conflict, rather than the go-to permanent standing army for all nations. To this effect:

Make mercenaries always stay at 100% maintenance

We added this and are quite happy with the results. If a nation chooses to rely heavily or exclusively on mercenaries at all times, they will certainly be footing the bill for them.

As for when you terminate your deal with any Mercenary Company, they will leave your nation and your command like all other units, but will not be available to hire by your nation for 10 years. If, in time of great war, you may find yourself at a disadvantage if you have exhausted your access of mercenaries against a foe who has many other companies at their disposal.

You may notice that the Local Manpower for a mercenary army replaces certain actions in the UI. While mercenary regiments can still be consolidated, they fight as a single unit under their leader. They will not accept being lead by another leader or army and cannot be split, nor merged with another. In the event that their leader dies, they shall elect a new leader from within.

6th Aud DD dead leader.jpg


In playtesting, this has lead to it feeling rather chunky, when manoeuvring multiple stacks which cannot be merged together, as they can have different arrival times and movement paths. We are looking into a better way to manage such stacks of armies, and as inconsistent arrival times has been a bugbear for some time, it seems a fitting moment to address it.

Some other points about Mercenaries which warrant bringing up here:
  • Hiring a Mercenary Company won't prevent another nation from hiring from that company too. We didn't want to create a situation where the player who clicks fastest gets those juicy Swiss mercs.
  • Mercenaries will use your nation's military stats, then apply any of their own modifiers on top of that. We did not want to echo the situation in EU3, where mercenaries would end up clearly spending all your money on booze because they were too drunk to fight well.
  • Mercenaries will be hired through the macro builder rather than through the provinces. This should help reduce click fatigue, but also necessitates some work on the Macro Builder, which we'll address in a future DD.
  • With Mercenaries no longer being a bottomless source of manpower, base manpower is likely to increase for all nations, likely by increasing the base amount development gives and/or boosting the value of manpower buildings.
  • Mercenaries are to use unit models fitting for their origin.
  • All changes above are going to be part of the free update.

This is a major change to system that has been largely untouched since EU3, and it won't be until 2020 that this update hits the shelves. The system is likely to get some refinement based on playtesting and feedback. Early results show a lot more involvement with Mercenary Companies, especially in multiplayer. Hearing "Oh bollocks he hired the Swiss" down the microphone certainly evokes much glee, but we shall continue refining the system. We shall be back with more about Mercenaries, as well as the content that goes hand in hand with the system, as development continues.

As ever, comments and feedback are welcome in the thread. Next week we'll be tackling another large change coming in the European Update.
 
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grommile

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Mercenaries has to be a limited resource!
... I don't think you actually read this dev diary, because that's exactly what it's about: making mercenaries a limited resource.
 

BartonPOL

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all mercs companies gonna have a flat 2x manpower compared to number of regiments?

And i'd also like to know if there's gonna be something like "rebying" a merc company from your opponent for a better price? like it used to happen irl
 

redackbar

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I like the idea that companies from other parts of the world will have different unit models! However in the screenshots it looks like a company called "Independent Cossack Host" from the province of Zaporoze is using the Lithuanian models, who I assume is simply the owner of that province. Seeing as they're cossacks and from Zaporoze I think it would be more appropriate for them to use the oft-unseen and cool-looking Zaporozhie unit models from the Cossacks Content Pack. Maybe the unit model could be tied to culture or something instead of the province owner? Just a suggestion, this looks great so far!
 

Ziggy187

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Sorry, 12 pages of comments to read through is not fun to see if this question has been asked/answered.
If multiple countries can hire the same merc company, do they all draw from the same MP pool? What if 5 of the same companies exist as yours that are fighting with tons of loses and drain the pool. Now when you take loses are you punished?
Can we control merc companies or are they like vassal armies?
If you can't merge, what happens when your army and the merc army both engage enemy? Do they mingle or wait for one army to finish battle before second one starts?
 

holyvigil

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Sorry, 12 pages of comments to read through is not fun to see if this question has been asked/answered.
If multiple countries can hire the same merc company, do they all draw from the same MP pool? What if 5 of the same companies exist as yours that are fighting with tons of loses and drain the pool. Now when you take loses are you punished?
Can we control merc companies or are they like vassal armies?
If you can't merge, what happens when your army and the merc army both engage enemy? Do they mingle or wait for one army to finish battle before second one starts?

1.) Yes. 2.) Yes. 3.a) Yes b) no 4.) they haven't answered but the rules for separate armies would stay the same as they currently are I presume.
 

NilsFabian

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Hiring a Mercenary Company won't prevent another nation from hiring from that company too. We didn't want to create a situation where the player who clicks fastest gets those juicy Swiss mercs.
While this sounds nice, I do wonder, are there any plans to allow me to pay the mercs to switch sides? Maybe with a high enough spy network?
During the 30year war it was quiet common to pay off an enemies mercenaries in order to get them to switch sides.
 

tafsiwerd

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Looks like mercs are going to go from overpowered to a noob trap. Since I already don't use mercs I can just sit back and enjoy :D

My main concern though, is that this cripples the weak AI even further. Currently they can spam 1 unit mercs, and while you can mop a couple up, the remainder will inevitably consolidate. Instead they're going to hire like 10 unit mercs at a time. They start at low morale (?). They have a lopsided composition. They will struggle to at best attach to other units. AND stackwiping knocks them out of the available pool for 10 years..... The player will definitely target and stackwipe these troops. As TMIT said, it will be easier to tap out the AI completely.
 

DamonIsa

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Frankly though just for ease of life I've prefer that over the current Whack-a-mole of one off merc stacks scattering like rats off the sinking ship of their country to go all around your country seiging and making a merry chase.

Might just be me, but one of the things I quite despise in AI behavior in strategy games is when they're dead to rights but engage in "Nuisance behavior" that does absolutely nothing to change the outcome but does elongate the conflict needlessly. Such as the desperation "Quickly hire 5 1k Merc stacks and scatter them through the infinite network of Military Access nations to run around finding provinces to siege and avoiding fights" kind of thing. Never wins a war. Just is annoying.
 

grommile

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Might just be me, but one of the things I quite despise in AI behavior in strategy games is when they're dead to rights but engage in "Nuisance behavior" that does absolutely nothing to change the outcome but does elongate the conflict needlessly.
I'm pretty sure such AI behaviour serves to further encourage the player to engage in vindictive peace treaty metagaming (ramp the enemy to 20 WE, wait for rebels to spawn, then take maximum ducats to leave them on 15 WE with rebels everywhere and come back once the truce timer's cooled down).
 

Don Wing

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Excellent improvements!! congrats!

GAme balance is great, but dont forget why people play EU4 ( ck2, hoi, etc) is primarly for historical reasons, not balance ( examples are in power and size of nation, technology, etc) so...

Make a company recruited NOT be able to be recruited by another player, make mercenaries recruitment cost INCREASE as war exhaustion goes larger, country is loosing or very low manpower, make mercenaries cheaper if war is winning above 50% or overwelming chances of winning.

Al so make a system where mercs could desert: not being payed, lot of loose of troops.
 

grommile

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Al so make a system where mercs could desert: not being payed, lot of loose of troops.
Under the current rules, mercenaries instantly disband if you go bankrupt.

I imagine they'll be just as quick to abandon a bankrupt state under the new rules.
 

Notthemama

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That doesn't make a lot of sense though if you consider the nature of European activities in TC areas where they either acted as middlemen or as traders to their home country/Europe while getting involved in the local trade networks (Philippines as the exception). With Islam however, there was often severely restricted access or no access at all for non-Muslim traders to Muslim areas, high fines and taxes if you were not muslim etc. -> lots of pros for conversion, especially in more urbanized and/or trade-heavy areas (though again, large parts of the population stayed non-muslim for a time, but religious minorities or religious demographics in EU4 overall are very very superficial and can barely be called an approximation of actual religious communities at the time.

There could potentially be some more Jesuit missionary work events though that would lead to a wider spread of christianity in TC areas.


Do you have anything to back this up? There was frequently close collaboration between Muslim polities and Christian traders. In reality, since customs, duties, etc were one of the main revenue streams for many governments of this time, plenty of christian governments also tried to control commercial activity by focusing it through certain ports so their agents could make sure everything was being paid. Curious how you think the Venetians were so successful if Muslim lands were restricting them so badly.
 

WilliamTheIII

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If it isn't possible to merge merc units with other units then what would be the point of having small 2k units like the Free Company mentioned? They could only be really used as raiders which cav can do much better. They could also be attached to your main army but movement delays are guaranteed to slow you down which can prove devastating.
 

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1. I’m afraid that mercenary maintenance will still be multiplied by certain number, not concerning unit type. Currently, base regular army maintenance cost of int/cav/art is 0.2/0.5/0.6 per month and base merc maintenance cost is 0.5/1.25/1.5 per month.

It prohibits player from using merc cav and art in most cases as merc cav and art cost too much to maintain. As the patch will force player to hire mercenary company which consists of not only int but also cav and art, players and AIs should spend unintended expense to maintain merc. In addition, we should think twice before hiring merc as we should hire merc which has minimum cav and art. Imagine how merc maintenance cost will be skyrocketed at late game, such as merc company of 20/4/16 composition. Of course, AIs will not be able to calculate it correctly.

Merc maintenance should be affected by merc hiring cost like regular army. It is (regular army hiring cost + 10) * 1.5 now. So if merc maintenance cost becomes 0.2% of hiring cost, then current 0.5/1.25/1.5 will be changed to 0.6/1.05/1.2. It will make balance among merc unit types much better.



2. How will it be worked at countries where merc were not prevalent like Western Europe? Korean government strictly prevented people from organizing armed group and there might be other countries like Korea.

This concern is related to conscription. In EU timeframe, some countries enacted conscription but others didn’t. Some countries didn’t have conscription at 1444 but have at 1821. When Korea conscripted 150k, Spain hired 150k of merc. French standing army at 1444 was mainly composed of knights and squires but La Grande Armée was mainly conscripted. It should be implemented at the game.



3. If hiring certain foreign merc company doesn’t prevent others to hire it, then how exactly merc manpower work? Will countries which hire same merc company share same manpower pool?
 

holyvigil

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Excellent improvements!! congrats!

GAme balance is great, but dont forget why people play EU4 ( ck2, hoi, etc) is primarly for historical reasons, not balance ( examples are in power and size of nation, technology, etc) so...

Make a company recruited NOT be able to be recruited by another player, make mercenaries recruitment cost INCREASE as war exhaustion goes larger, country is loosing or very low manpower, make mercenaries cheaper if war is winning above 50% or overwelming chances of winning.

Al so make a system where mercs could desert: not being payed, lot of loose of troops.

Making a company NOT be able to be recruited by another player would be ahistorical. The Landsknechte army notably fought in battles against each other as did other free mercenary companies (of course the head generals had them situated away from each other so they never actually shot at each other).
 
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purplephoton

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Probably due to the loudness of the battery firing close by. Don't worry, it'll pass.

No disrespect meant to the dev team here, but rimworld inbox is one of the most skilled players out there, miles ahead of any dev. So when he points out that some aspect of a recently-designed concept is ridiculous, it would be wise to listen. Granted, his way of doing so may not have been the best, but this doesn't change the fact that he knows what he is talking about.

(WC by 1640 with almost no loans or corruption from territories taken ever, at a time when 3 Mountains is a rare achievement among devs? That's him. Last I checked, it took the dev team something like 20 players to prevent the reformation; he has done it single-handedly. He's also made serious efforts to find top-tier MP groups and learn their meta - and I'm talking about groups where a dev such as StarNan would be considered well below average. He also has - how would I put it - direct connections to a group of game-breakers such as himself, Florry, marcoantonio, etc.)

I'm not trying to raise him on a pedestal here, but there is a strong disconnect between players and devs right now that makes it difficult for you guys to identify good suggestions from bad ones. I'm sure that's none of your fault - designing a game takes time, after all - but I believe it would be to your advantage to identify skilled players, instead of dismissing their advice with a "Don't worry, it'll pass."
 

rimworld inbox

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I really like the references to historical mercenary compositions in defense of Vladislav having cavalry fetish in his mercstack. However, one wonders, is the near uselessness of cavalry in eu4 also historical? Have I been completely mislead by my reading?

The only real advantage of cav is that it allows you to beat up slightly harder against smaller sub combat width stacks. Ironically, in order to utilize even this properly (to make sure it doesn't take casualties) requires two narrow use conditions:

1. you're facing some brain dead AI or rebels which is fielding sub-CW stack.
2. you can split and merge them as necessary to maximize flanking since the battle UI does not deploy them properly (in many cases you end up with an infantry just chilling on the outside flank unable to participate in the battle)
 
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dD_ShockTrooper

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This seems kind of obvious, but can't the no merging issue be trivially solved by allowing your own armies to attach to each other instead of only allowing them to attach to allies? If leader maneuver still causes them to arrive on different days, just change attach army blocks to move either at the fastest or slowest leader movement.