EU4 - Development Diary - 5th of September 2017

[aeroplaniko]

Don't you think that giving the Ottomans the ability to covert all the provinces in the Constantinople and Ragusa nodes with the "propagate religion" mechanic is just going to make it even easier for them?

I'm not sure they need to be buffed again.

'Propagate religion' is possible in Trade Companies only, as stated in the Dev D. So it won't have an effect in Constantinople or Ragusa.

 

[Ironside121]

So that inland trade route one.. that just represents good logistics, right?

I do love how warfare and armies are getting more depth now.

 

[mohamed 2]

finally so happy you would give us some love thank you and waiting for the next DD

 

[johnleeyx]

By reducing their trade share below 20% (current value, as ever, pending balance testing) will disable the action and default their policy back to Maximize Profits.

Does this disable the religious centre and its effects?

 

[Kapitalisti]

Japan was neither colony nor protectorate either, but Cristianity spread anyway.

Japan already has events that spread Christianity.

 

[Metroidkirby]

When a Muslim nation controls more than 33% of the Trade Power in a Trade Company Region's node, they are able to activate the Propagate Religion Trade Policy, which will establish a Religious Centre in the node, spreading this religion within the node, as can be seen in my totally legit Omani screenshot

Do this religious centre can spread its religion to provinces held by a Trade Company?

 

[YuriiH]

For unknown reasons, the Inland Routes policy has proven very popular in the office.

Obviously, 5% trade income when you control 33% vs. Inland Routes is garbage
This is virtually a 0.5-1 ducat vs. MAJOR combat bonus.
Make faster movement speed + -5% shock damage received, and it would be balanced.

When a Muslim nation controls more than 33% of the Trade Power

Make Tolerance of Heathens/Heretics majorly influence the speed of Province Conversion.
If I'm playing as super-tolerant Ottomans, I don't really care about conversion, and IRL I won't invest a ducat to convert far-far-far-far-far away lands.
This will also help to avoid full Shiite/Sunni India.
Besides, such speed influence would be perfect for the conversion by Protestant/Reformation Religious Centres.

And by the way, If a nation looses 33% trade power, will all provinces stop being converted?
This is rather exploitable by sending pirates, or starting a trade war, occupying, or asking for Trade Power transfer, etc.

 

[flogi]

The inland routes thing can never be balanced. +1 for dice rolls - really?
Thats way to much. A smaller combat bonus would be fine but +1 is way too extreme.

 

[rattatta]

What da f... Give christians the same religious spreading mechanic as muslims, historically things go christian in sub-saharan africa and asia after 1500 :O

 

[randerson1893]

Goodbye Orthodox Greece and Balkans

Only in trade company regions

 

[TemporalAnomaly]

I assume the birth of Sikhism events will be modified to use the new religious center mechanics.

Maybe encourage it to spawn in Amritsar, pretty please.

 

[YuriiH]

Only in trade company regions

Already changed this in my post
In any case, bb Hindu India

 

[MeshPL]

I don't really know the reason why, but I don't really feel hyped for the new expansion. Free patch - yes. I like new countries, the more the merrier, especially with them being based on real historical divisions and entities. New army stuff? Army is already complicated. Trading policy? It does not even seem well thought out. +1 to combat rolls is effectively +1 to land leader shock and fire and late game I can have quite a few merchants, enough to move few of them to another country and give me a +1 bonus to all combat rolls. Other bonuses also seem stronger compared to maximised profits.

We'll see maybe changes to Muslims will be good?

 

[grand_Turk]

You're right that the Islamization of southeast Asia wasn't a colonial process. But I think it's not quite as simple as 'admiration of honest Muslim merchants'. I'm not an expert, but I understand that that the merchants were followed by significant numbers of missionaries. Their strategy seems to have focused on converting rulers, who then pushed their peoples to convert. You could compare the process to the Christianization of northern Europe in the early Middle Ages: it wasn't colonial, but a lot of it was about power too. It's also worth noting that there wasn't always a clear-cut distinction between 'merchant' and 'ruler' amongst the Malays: local rulers were often the major investors in trading voyages, so their natural inclination to propagate Islam from the trading ports into neighbouring island and hinterland was in part an exercise of state power. And the Bruneian conquest of the southern Philippines seems at first glance to be an instance of Islamization by the sword.

I don't think reliability of muslim traders and efforts of sufi scholars in the region were simple reasons for natives to convert to Islam considering the horror created by dutch and portugese expansionism, which eventually accelerated the process of spread of Islam among native folks. Secondly, there's no such thing as missionaries in Islamic literature as in the case of catholic faith. You couldn't just send some missionaries to convert a foreign ruler immediately. That's neither logical nor possible. Truth is, muslim arab merchants had very firm trade connections with the far East and India ever since the 7th century. They used to trade in China, Korea, Bengal and southeastern Asia. So they were well known by the native people. Besides, the sufi masters I mentioned above managed to familiarise the people with Islam by serving as models. Thus, Islamisation of far east had very little in common with christianisation of northern Europe which was largely result of political concerns of pagan rulers against ever growing christianity and military campaigns of christian rulers upon pagans. I'm not saying rulers converting to Islam had no effect on the spread of Islam in the region.Yet, the efforts of local rulers to spread Islam is not the same case as that in the colonization and asimiliation of western powers. That's what makes this mechanic exclusive to muslims in the game. If you allow me to give recommendation for the subject, I suggest that you do some academic reading starting with Dr. Hee Soo Lee's books about the spread of Islam in the far east. Regards...

 

[Twoflower]

Obviously, 5% trade income when you control 33% vs. Inland Routes is garbage
This is virtually a 0.5-1 ducat vs. MAJOR combat bonus.
Make faster movement speed + -5% shock damage received, and it would be balanced.

Is this a problem in reading comprehension or just general negativity? (not specifically directed towards you, but towards all knee-jerk reactions that bash the 5 % trade power). Unless I am misunderstanding the Dev Diary (in which case I will see myself out, thank you very much ), improve inland routes and propagate religion require 33 % trade power, while the three others don't. I.e. those two are basically a reward for controlling a third of a node, and do not really have to be balanced with the three others.
The two "bonus" abilties and the three "basic" abilities actually do seem quite balanced.

EDIT: To reiterate: if you have reached a point where you can get 33 percent trade power in basically any node, you either have already won the game (in which case the +1 terrain bonus will not matter that much) or you are a very competent trade-focused country. This could be considered as a stealth military buff for merchant republics and countries like Portugal and the Netherlands.

 

[Honon]

Is this a problem in reading comprehension or just general negativity? (not specifically directed towards you, but towards all knee-jerk reactions that bash the 5 % trade power). Unless I am misunderstanding the Dev Diary (in which case I will see myself out, thank you very much ), improve inland routes and propagate religion require 33 % trade power, while the three others don't. I.e. those two are basically a reward for controlling a third of a node, and do not really have to be balanced with the three others.
The two "bonus" abilties and the three "basic" abilities actually do seem quite balanced.

EDIT: To reiterate: if you have reached a point where you can get 33 percent trade power in basically any node, you either have already won the game (in which case the +1 terrain bonus will not matter that much) or you are a very competent trade-focused country. This could be considered as a stealth military buff for merchant republics and countries like Portugal and the Netherlands.

I also think people miss the point on the +5% trade power. it isn't +5 Percent income, it's +5% power. That means it gets multiplied per node. So when you have a long chain of nodes, shouldn't the extra money you are dragging from node to know get amplified with each node it passes through?

I actually see the bonus trade power as really strong. and I will probably use it in the majority of my nodes most of the time in my Portugal games.

 

[Grand Historian]

Will you actually have to have a province in a tradenode, or simply a merchant to unlock these abilities?

 

[alphamikefox]

All of the past dev diaries on this next patch and dlc have hyped me for things I didn't know I wanted in eu4. This dev diary I was a more disappointed with these changes and not sure if I would like them until I read @DDRJake 's update post on page 2, and since then I've felt much better about it. Thanks to @DDRJake and @Trin Tragula for helping to set a level-headed tone for dev diary comments and responses

Some questions I have:

Will there be any way for you to be able to see what other countries pick for their trade policy in a node? Even just a tooltip somewhere?

How frequently are AI Muslim nations going to pick the propagating policy. Will AI nations affected by propagate religion react to counter it? Are there any notifications to alert a player to propagating Muslims in your lands?

Will the propagate religion mechanic be limited by age like other religion mechanics?

 

[Nikoleis]

Now if only sea provinces could also be part of the trade setup, so we could have a similar combat bonus for fleets, this one would diversify the naval warfare, while being actually being contested by sending Light ships around, in a risky mission of trade protection to use as a way to prevent naval domination.

 

[Agamidae]

stirring up the dev multiplayer contestants to start a word war

Should that be a world war? Or are you trying to start an epic poetry contest? Not that I mind.