EU4 - Development Diary - 5th of September 2017

[raikaria]

Is there any kind of defence against proselytising Islamic merchants or a CB to try and force them to stop?

Don't let them have 33% trade power in your node.

What is the logic behind trade policy giving a combat bonus?

Better roads and supply routes = better movement of armies; movement of things such as ammunition; ect. I believe it's supposed to reflect that.

 

[TheDungen]

Christianity only began to spread to Africa during the latter half of the 19th century, when europeans had much more influence in their african colonies

Yeah that was kind of my point. In EU4 trade should give the europeans protectorates not religious converts. The push to convert africa is a vic2 thing. The part about protectorates converting was just a joke about how they eventually did that.

 

[-Joeyon-]

No but they could give Catholicism a respite since Catholicism already have the protestant centres of reformation to worry about.

Historicaly, Islamic traders only spread islam to pagan areas like West Africa, The East African Coast, India, and Indonesia. It would be unhistorical and unrealistic if Islam could spread to christian areas throught trade.

 

[Bayes]

I got a feeling this is going to be the best patch/dlc in a long time.

 

[TheDungen]

What is the logic behind trade policy giving a combat bonus?

Probably something about multiplayer and so on. Seems to be the response to everything EU4 these days.

Historicaly, Islamic traders only spread islam to pagan areas like West Africa, The East African Coast, India, and Indonesia. It would be unhistorical and unrealistic if Islam could spread to christian areas throught trade.

Didn't they also convert orthodox up in the steppes? The tartars were always a mixed lot with the russians trying to make them christians while the ottomans tried to make them muslim.
Also the ottomans spread islam in the balkans.

 

[-Joeyon-]

State edicts have defences against conversion, no?

I think those are only available during the age of reformation if you get enought splendor to enable it.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Out of interest, would that be moddable to work for other religions?

Both the new system and the old centers of reformation themselves should be a lot more moddable now (with weighting for target provinces) than they used to be.

 

[-Joeyon-]

Didn't they also convert orthodox up in the steppes? The tartars were always a mixed lot with the russians trying to make them christians while the ottomans tried to make them muslim.
Also the ottomans spread islam in the balkans.

That's true, but those areas didn't become muslim because of Islamic traders, they were only converted by the sword.

 

[damian2503]

View attachment 296486
What is the besides Omans flag?

 

[Kapitalisti]

View attachment 296486
What is the besides Omans flag?

A guy in a funny hat.



But seriously, that was asked about in the previous DD and I'm assuming it's some part of that new shine on the Muslim world they mention.

 

[diceyy]

When a Muslim nation controls more than 33% of the Trade Power in a Trade Company Region's node, they are able to activate the Propagate Religion Trade Policy, which will establish a Religious Centre in the node, spreading this religion within the node, as can be seen in my totally legit Omani screenshot

Are they required to own land in that node? If not that is pretty dirty. Religious centres themselves are due a rework, especially if religious zeal isn't getting tweaked.

A bit strange that inland roads does not improve army movement speed

 

[DDRJake]

Ha, I knew there would be changes to Islam!

Yes, it gives me a cheeky grin when people guess what we're developing in the game, doubly so when they're spot on!

Out of interest, would that be moddable to work for other religions?

Really cool changes, I wonder how does the religious centre decide which provinces to convert?

Based on the screenshot it doesn't seem like it's based on proximity, like protestant and reformation centres are.

Yes, let's talk about moddability. While we always take pride in keeping our game open to modders, we're breaking out the extra effort in 1.23.

With regards to @CheesySnake's question, the Trade Policies are made in script, so that, for example, propagate religion look like so:

propagate_religion =
{
    unique = yes # Only one country can select this in a certain node.

    can_select = {      
        religion_group = muslim
        FROM = {
            has_trader = ROOT
            is_node_in_trade_company_region = yes
            trade_share = {
                country = ROOT
                share = 33
            }
        }
    }

    can_maintain = {
        religion_group = muslim
        FROM = {
            has_trader = ROOT
            is_node_in_trade_company_region = yes
            trade_share = {
                country = ROOT
                share = 20
            }
        }
    }

    center_of_reformation = yes
    button_gfx = GFX_Trading_Policy_Propagate_Religion
}

So if you decided that this was for Zorastrian's only, then that's entirely possible.

Additionally, as @-Joeyon- asks, the method for targeting provinces has also been brought into script, both for Trade Policy Religious Propagation and the pre-existing Centres of Reformation. For example...

protestant_center_of_reformation = {
  
    religion = protestant

    map_icon = GFX_religious_conversion_center_protestant

    base_conversion_speed = 5.0

    target_province_weights = {
        factor = 5
      
        modifier = {
            factor = 0
            has_missionary = yes
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0
            province_id = 118 # Rome, seat of Papacy
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0
            has_province_modifier = religious_center
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0
            has_province_modifier = religious_zeal_at_conv
        }

#...so on and so fourth

I hope this clarifies the modding aspect, although it by no means closes the book on what we have to say about mod support in 1.23. @Groogy has made vague but binding promises to talk at length about support he's been working on.

Is there any kind of defence against proselytising Islamic merchants or a CB to try and force them to stop?

By reducing their trade share below 20% (current value, as ever, pending balance testing) will disable the action and default their policy back to Maximize Profits.

Don't you think that giving the Ottomans the ability to covert all the provinces in the Constantinople and Ragusa nodes with the "propagate religion" mechanic is just going to make it even easier for them?

I'm not sure they need to be buffed again.

There's a lot of talk of Ottoman buffs in the dev diary comments. Overall, the Ottomans are still going to have their fangs in 1.23 but we have made some changes to make them a little less of a 1450's unstoppable killing machine with lazer-guided chainsaw rockets. More on that later.

Historicaly, Islamic traders only spread islam to pagan areas like West Africa, The East African Coast, India, and Indonesia. It would be unhistorical and unrealistic if Islam could spread to christian areas throught trade.

It's worth re-itterating that Religious Propagation will be limited to Trade Company Regions. That is to say, Ivory coast, Cape, Zanzibar, India, South East Asia, Canton, Hangzhou and Beijing. This religious propogation will not be possible in, say, France or Russia or Brazil.

On the other hand, modding this to be possible will, again, be absolutely trivial.

I got a feeling this is going to be the best patch/dlc in a long time.

We're glad to hear that. Myself and the whole EU4 team are really pumped up to bring you the best.

 

[DawramBashere]

Historicaly, Islamic traders only spread islam to pagan areas like West Africa, The East African Coast, India, and Indonesia. It would be unhistorical and unrealistic if Islam could spread to christian areas throught trade.

Well, as they stated the spread is possible only in trade companies regions so christianity is save

 

[Troopperi]

Propagate religion sounds cool, I suppose they aren't as fast as centers of reformation though?
By the way, are there any plans to revise the continental restrictions of trade companies, since most Muslim nations are in Asia and therefore can't make trade companies there.

 

[CelticWarrior95]

awful idea to make trade convert religion, and only for muslims, on the top of that. now india will completely flip to muslim, now. if your problem was indonesia, just add events for that. at the very least, make this mechanic available to all religions and only if the state doesn't have a positive tolerance of the target province's religion.

 

[grand_Turk]

Why isn't propagate religion available to Cristian faith? It is arguably the.way it did spread in colonies, Africa and Japan! Please reconsider!

To give an example, early spread of Islam in far southeastern Asia was purely caused by the muslim merchants in the region. Impressed by muslim traders' honesty, and merchantile capabilities, native people of malacca, sumatra, and indonesia started to convert to Islam in a steady manner. So, the former pagans of the region were neither colonies nor protectorates of muslim states close to that region. What the devs call "propagate religion" was genuinely unique to the muslims by historical approach. Historically speaking, assimilation of natives is a much more suitable mechanic for the colonizers of western christian world as currently exists in the game.

 

[DawramBashere]

awful idea to make trade convert religion, and only for muslims, on the top of that. now the ottoblob will basically convert everybody to islam without actually having to deal with missionaries. and even india will completely flip to muslim, now. if your problem was indonesia, just add events for that. at the very least, make this mechanic available to all religions and only if the state doesn't have a positive tolerance of the target province's religion.

Awful or not but I love how it reflects muslim influence in Indian Ocean trade irl.

 

[-Joeyon-]

Well, as they stated the spread is possible only in trade companies regions so christianity is save

That's great, somehow i completly missed that part when reading throught the dev diary.

 

[pedrito_elcabra]

Am I the only one thinking that policies will see very few uses in MP?
+1 combat bonus is too important a change to risk not having it, and you don't really have time in MP to go switching around policies during a war. Way too many other things to do.

So everyone will stick with Inland Routes and that's that.

 

[I'm gaming]

Don't you think that giving the Ottomans the ability to covert all the provinces in the Constantinople and Ragusa nodes with the "propagate religion" mechanic is just going to make it even easier for them?

I'm not sure they need to be buffed again.

Who said like that? Propagate religion teade policy is only available at trade company regions.

Am I the only one thinking that policies will see very few uses in MP?
+1 combat bonus is too important a change to risk not having it, and you don't really have time in MP to go switching around policies during a war. Way too many other things to do.

So everyone will stick with Inland Routes and that's that.

I don't think so. Unless the MP is played at speed 5, no one will stick to combat bonus trade policy at peacetime.