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EU4 Development Diary - 4th February 2016

Hello everyone, and welcome to another Europa Universalis development diary. We are now working fully towards 1.16 and our next big expansion. While I’ve always been the lead designer for EU4, I’m now the project lead for this expansion, as Wiz has moved to another project.

One of the biggest changes in concept is the introduction of sailors. Sailors represent the trained seamen of a nation. Sailors differ from manpower both in what they are used for, and in how you get them. Only coastal provinces provide sailors, and the amount of sailors depend on total development in that province. Sailors are required when constructing new ships, and when ships are “repaired”. Of course not all ships require the same amount of sailors, with heavy ships needing the most and transports the least.

Docks and Drydocks now provide 50% and 100% more sailors from their provinces instead of increasing forcelimits, while Shipyards and Grand Shipyards have been redesigned to increase naval forcelimits & decrease shipbuilding times in those provinces.

Natural Harbours and Coastal Trade Centers increase the amount of sailors you get from a province, while Merchant marine now gives +50% Sailors & Press Gangs now give +20% Sailor Recovery. Some nations also have ideas giving them more Sailors from their provinces with Netherlands and Norway having the biggest boosts at +25%. There are also policies, parliament issues & norse gods boosting your sailor pool as well.

Qvpb8Sf.jpg


If you have the expansion, you also gain sailors from occupying another nation’s coastal provinces, even if your maximum possible pool is not increased.

One of the most feared things in europe in this time-period was the arrival of slave raiders from the north african coast. Countless villages were razed and millions of europeans were sold in slavery in Algiers, Tunis, Tripoli & Istanbul until the European nations were finally able to stop it at the middle of the 19th century by simply conquering the North African coast.

Now Barbary Nations lose their 10% cheaper ship tradition, and they gained the ability to raid for slaves. Raiding for Slaves is now something fleets can do at sea, where they gain money and sailors from coastal provinces that are not their allies or subjects. To raid a coastal province, you need be able to blockade it with that fleet, and you can only raid a province once every ten years. The efficiency of raiding is reduced by fleets on pirate hunting patrol. Raiding of course hurts your relation with the owner of provinces you raid.

The reason for why you get sailors from raids, is that plenty of them historically ended up chained to an oar at a galley.

wuoomf6.jpg


Next week, we’ll take a deep look at how we have redesigned the espionage system.
 
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Johan can you discuss some of the idea sets getting changes because of sailors? Naval, Maritime, Trade, Quality, Exploration? Can raids be stopped by troops and can the AI use them effectively? Also is raid effectivity impacted by blockade efficiency?

Are the Norse based in Greenland finally being added as a raiding nation? :)

Still like that PI supports its games a long time and DLC are necessary to support such development. Really guys there are so many people behind the scenes that work and they have to be paid and then there are other administrative expenses (building etc).
 
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Am I the only one who thinks the Expansion Idea set should give you this ability to raid for slaves in Africa?
I mean this is not something nice to think about but it would be realistic.
They likely don't for the same reasons HOI games don't model the holocaust, it's an emotionally fraught topic and would add little to gameplay that would merit it's inclusion.
 
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They likely don't for the same reasons HOI games don't model the holocaust, it's an emotionally fraught topic and would add little to gameplay that would merit it's inclusion.

So it's ok for North Africans to raid for European slaves in the game, but not ok for Europeans (or others) to raid for African slaves in the game?
 
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@Johan -- Will new naval revamp include changes to naval tradition? Currently, as per the tooltip, you can gain NT by protecting trade but not by blockades. So during war, instead of getting that nice monthly tick upwards protecting trade, I'm actually losing tradition by blockading my hated enemies.

Yes
 
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They likely don't for the same reasons HOI games don't model the holocaust, it's an emotionally fraught topic and would add little to gameplay that would merit it's inclusion.
It also kind of makes no sense under the existing game mechanics.
 

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What would this add beyond what the current trade good + triangle trade event + abolition decisions represent already?
Well you could have your New World production boosted by actively raiding for slaves instead of just buying them from third parties. And it would simulate the European forts much better than whole provinces. European nations never held vast territory in Western Africa, but just several forts where the slaves were taken to (often by other natives) and then shipped to the New World.
Are the Norse based in Greenland finally being added as a raiding nation? :)
Sadly they most likely had died out in 1444---or at least were very close to it. The last written proof of them is from ~1408 and already then things were not going well. But they were important in the games time frame in how they kept being searched for again and again.
 
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Thanks. But did not get the point. What benefit do the Sailors provide? I mean what problem are we trying to solve here?

At the moment, you can have only one coastal province and get the biggest navy of the world if your economy can carry it.
With the proper income, you can go over your naval forcelimit easily.

This is not the best way to represent how to run a big navy.

So is Greenland now always seen from the start? If I recall it didn't use to be this way.

It's already the case.
 
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So it's ok for North Africans to raid for European slaves in the game, but not ok for Europeans (or others) to raid for African slaves in the game?
I can't say I know about North African + European slavery but considering the descendants of those affected by the triangle slave trade are still seeking reparations and apologies from the countries involved I think it's detailed inclusion in a game would be somewhat disrespectful.

Edit: to clarify I don't have a problem with everyone being able to raid for extra sailors, my original point was against a more detailed modelling of west African slavery and the triangle trade.
 
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I can't say I know about North African + European slavery but considering the descendants of those affected by the triangle slave trade are still seeking reparations and apologies from the countries involved I think it's detailed inclusion in a game would be somewhat disrespectful.
That depends on the nature and presentation of that detailed inclusion.

Now, in the particular case of a strategy game with EU4's levels of abstraction, it's probably impossible to do the matter justice in an appropriate fashion.
 
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At the moment, you can have only one coastal province and get the biggest navy of the world if your ecenomy can carry it.
With the proper income, you can go over your naval forcelimit easily.

This is not the best way to represent how to run a big navy.
While true, in practice the countries with lots of coastal provinces still have the strongest navies. Usually by a large margin if they're also wealthy. This change by itself won't really impact that outcome, I think. Even if you consider it a slight buff to wealthy nations with rich but small coastlines (high dev + harbor = lots of sailors versus a nation with lots of mostly poor coasts), I'm not sure the resulting navies will be much different.

The key here, I think, is how sailors affect ship repair. I'm betting on some tweaks to naval combat that will result in fewer ships sunk (morale might start actually mattering). As a result the outcome of most naval battles will be repairs, with the loser suffering a bigger hit to the sailor count. Therefore, you'd win the naval war not by sinking all their ships (or forcing them to dock forever in fear) but rather by making them run out of sailors.

Another effect would be that if a nation suffers notable sailor losses in a naval war, then turns around and gets into another war, they might actually lose even if the new enemy has a smaller and weaker navy. In the current system, the nation with the large navy would just stomp all opposition into the ground, repair, and repeat. Now every naval battle has a cost, even if you win.

If I'm right about this, I think this might actually be a bit of a nerf to traditional naval powers. It also might force them into naval ideas to grab those sailor boosts. How novel -- a seafaring nation actually needing naval ideas :)
 
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I can't say I know about North African + European slavery but considering the descendants of those affected by the triangle slave trade are still seeking reparations and apologies from the countries involved I think it's detailed inclusion in a game would be somewhat disrespectful.

Research the Barbary Slave Trade. Over a million European men, women, and children as far away as even Iceland were taken slaves by North African slave traders. That is the problem with the West these days. We focus so much on the wrongs of our ancestors that we forget we were also victims in some ways as well. Slavery was common among all people throughout history until recent times and in fact, Western people were some of the first people to end slavery. Many African nations and many Asian nations did not do so until the 20th century. Slavery is wrong, but slavery is part of history and slavery was an important part of European expansion, especially in the new world. I don't feel allowing other nations in this game to obtain slaves is any more disrespectful than allowing North Africans to take European slaves. I am sure those million plus slaves in North Africa did not have good lives.
 
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Research the Barbary Slave Trade. Over a million European men, women, and children as far away as even Iceland were taken slaves by North African slave traders. That is the problem with the West these days. We focus so much on the wrongs of our ancestors that we forget we were also victims in some ways as well. Slavery was common among all people throughout history until recent times and in fact, Western people were some of the first people to end slavery. Many African nations and many Asian nations did not do so until the 20th century. Slavery is wrong, but slavery is part of history and slavery was an important part of European expansion, especially in the new world. I don't feel allowing other nations in this game to obtain slaves is any more disrespectful than allowing North Africans to take European slaves. I am sure those million plus slaves in North Africa did not have good lives.
You are indeed correct, which is why I wanted to clarify my point above. Taking sailors I think is an acceptable level of abstraction as it is applied equally. I just don't think there is any reason, morally, gameplay etc for a more detailed description of slavery in a game.
 

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You are indeed correct, which is why I wanted to clarify my point above. Taking sailors I think is an acceptable level of abstraction as it is applied equally. I just don't think there is any reason, morally, gameplay etc for a more detailed description of slavery in a game.

Fair enough, but why can't Western and Eastern nations also partake in slave raids, via ideas, to increase their sailors? I guess that is my question. I think the reason the other poster suggested Africa in general rather than North Africa is because Europeans did get them from all over the continent. I guess the point is, why limit a (likely) paid feature to such a small group of players?
 

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Fair enough, but why can't Western and Eastern nations also partake in slave raids, via ideas, to increase their sailors? I guess that is my question. I think the reason the other poster suggested Africa in general rather than North Africa is because Europeans did get them from all over the continent. I guess the point is, why limit a (likely) paid feature to such a small group of players?
For that I imagine it is a balance thing to try and keep North African nations alive longer. I would prefer all nations having access to the mechanic though.