EU4 - Development Diary - 3rd of October 2017

[hashinshin]

Basicly there's 2 ways around this, either buff those countries and basicly railroad history so that all big countries enjoy the success that the Ottomans currently do or give more tags at least a fair chance. Mamluks conquering the Ottomans isn't less likely than Burgundy or England beating France (alone)

yyyyyes it actually is. While it's true the Mamluks were amazingly competent and a very large power, at the time of the Ottoman war they were completely incompetent and stood almost no chance of victory.

Burgundy on the other hand was going up up up, and many in France feared that it would soon become greater than France itself. It was over-aggression sparking a coalition combined with an incompetent King dying on the field that doomed them.

 

[Riekopo]

A 10% combat boost is supposed to be strong?

 

[bbqftw]

@DDRJake

Do Janissaries cost manpower to reinforce?

Do Janissaries spawn with 100 men like banners? Or full strength?

yyyyyes it actually is. While it's true the Mamluks were amazingly competent and a very large power, at the time of the Ottoman war they were completely incompetent and stood almost no chance of victory.

I'm sure the Mamluk government will model tha-

Oh look, +2 admin ruler rolls.

Main issue is mediocre idea set, the problem is many upgrades also destroy government form. I'm sure someone will figure it out.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

I'm sure the Mamluk government will model tha-

Oh look, +2 admin ruler rolls.

Honestly, that's the worst change of all..I mean if a nation got that that was actually succesfully administering their country during the EU4 timeline (like maybe France, or England) then fine

But for the Mamluks it makes no sense

 

[bbqftw]

can we be allowed to recruit cossa-janissary banners from Manchu primary culture Eastern tech Ottoman government countries with heathen Manchu states

ty, they might actually be worth the 50 MIL cost then

 

[OcoBri]

When is this available? How do I know if it has been updated through steam?

 

[Inapporpriate name 99]

Turks basically won with numbers and by stealing European technology like cannons. If it hadn 't been for Orban Ottomans would never have taken Constantinople. Janissaries as a whole weren't on part with the average European infantry in that age.

Stop with these myths, the Europeans did not invent cannons, the Muslims were the first to utilize cannons as early as Al-Andalus. Spanish writers even talk about how when besieging a Muslim city, many Christians were killed by a loud weapon they had not seen before. Numbers do not win battles that easily, everyone doesn't fight at once and most don't even get to fight, what wins battles is better generals. Janissaries were trained from birth, and were the most elite armies to exist at that time. Not to mention most of the wars fought by the Ottomans against the Europeans were when the Europeans outnumbered the Ottomans, often just the Ottomans vs a dozen European nations

 

[harezmi]

@DDRJake Are Janissaries only infantry? or do they spawn cavalry units as well (a la banners)?

Six Divisions of Cavalry or Kapikulu Sipahis were the elite cavalry units of Ottoman Empire Army. They were raised like Janissaries and their numbers were as much as 20k towards the end of the 16th century. They were even more prestigious than the Janissaries because their main duty in peacetime was to collect "jizyah", the tax for non-Muslims, and it was almost 15% of the income in the 16th century.

 

[ChloePech]

Some of yall are talking like the Ottomans should be able to kill everyone except Ming at gamestart.

The Ottomans were smart, not space marines. They played history like a good player plays EU4, they were far from invincible, especially in 1444. Now, yes, the largest threats to them (namely, the Mamluks) were in a terrible state, but so were they- any one of them could have "rolled a better leader" so to speak, ESPECIALLY the Mamluk sultanate. Indeed, the Ottomans were afraid of them around this time period, and spent their time getting strong enough to beat them- they didnt start there, for sure. Especially with the fact that the Ottomans had just been through a Crusade and hadnt even fully recovered from Timur at 1444. They can and should be nerfed from how they were in the game before.

Also, the Jannisaries werent space marines either- they were trained, as represented by the drill mechanic and idea group selection moreso than any innate attribute. The Ottomans still have the economic situation to drill well on top of these troops, which, while not on par with banners, are probably generally better than Streltzy and allow the Ottomans to use their economic advantage (which was their clearest advantage ESPECIALLY early on) to fight their enemies. The Ottomans can still meet and surpass their history. They also have some great missions and events alongside a great government type, so... dont lose your heads over them being brought down to historical marks. They're still one of the best ways to do WC- we dont know about Mughals, and Rum seems about equal (harder to achieve but better overal) and Byzantium in around the same ballpark.

Now, Muscovy could probably use some nerfs...

 

[Tavior]

When is this available? How do I know if it has been updated through steam?

It won't be out for a while. Maybe little over a month.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

Stop with these myths, the Europeans did not invent cannons, the Muslims were the first to utilize cannons as early as Al-Andalus. Spanish writers even talk about how when besieging a Muslim city, many Christians were killed by a loud weapon they had not seen before. Numbers do not win battles that easily, everyone doesn't fight at once and most don't even get to fight, what wins battles is better generals. Janissaries were trained from birth, and were the most elite armies to exist at that time. Not to mention most of the wars fought by the Ottomans against the Europeans were when the Europeans outnumbered the Ottomans, often just the Ottomans vs a dozen European nations

Scientific mainstream says that cannons were invented by the Chinese and then brought into the Islamic and Christian world by the Mongols. Invention by christians or muslims is in my opinion nationalistic fringe science

Also regarding outnumbered, I'm really interested what you are talking about. I looked at several wars between the Ottomans and Christian countries and the Ottomans almost always fielded more troops than their enemies. When did the Ottomans fight a war, not a single battle, with numerical disadvantage?

 

[Rip Off Productions]

Scientific mainstream says that cannons were invented by the Chinese and then brought into the Islamic and Christian world by the Mongols. Invention by christians or muslims is in my opinion nationalistic fringe science

I think "invention" here would mean "significant improvements", either in construction or use, not from scratch.

 

[Tavior]

Scientific mainstream says that cannons were invented by the Chinese and then brought into the Islamic and Christian world by the Mongols. Invention by christians or muslims is in my opinion nationalistic fringe science

Also regarding outnumbered, I'm really interested what you are talking about. I looked at several wars between the Ottomans and Christian countries and the Ottomans almost always fielded more troops than their enemies. When did the Ottomans fight a war, not a single battle, with numerical disadvantage?

Are you talking about gunpowder in fireworks and the like?

Europe/Muslim was the first to take gunpowder and use in cannons.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

Nope, not fireworks, the oldest known cannon is the Wuwei cannon from China and is dated between 1040 and 1220.

 

[Tavior]

Nope, not fireworks, the oldest known cannon is the Wuwei cannon from China and is dated between 1040 and 1220.

Those were more of hand-hold anti-infantry kind of deal. As opposite to wall braking cannon.

However interesting nevertheless.

 

[Ahmet Demir]

I hope Mamluks will have a special government type, maybe shared with the janissaries when they take over Turkey.

Actually, Mamluk word comes from special mamluk troop. It means slave. They were slave soldiers, their commanders kept Mamluk Sultanate; they fought each other to aquire it. I think they will add special troops to the Mamluks.

 

[Ahmet Demir]

can ak quyonlu form rum? they are of turkish culture but not a baylik

It would be unappropriate becuase AQ did not have any claims on Rum Sultanate.

 

[oopsione]

To all of those who whine about "nerfing" the Ottoman troops. Do you all forget that they still have an average 2-3 pip advantage per unit type until 1650? A unit with such a pip advantage taking 10% less dmg from all sources is pretty strong, especially in early game when there are devestating shock phases.
The power from the Ottomans in early arent only the 5% disc and 10% inf CA but the pip advantage of the units to provide such huge damage.

 

[Apollyonna]

I like the changes. Maybe they do need slight tweaks as some here have suggested but overall it's an improvement.

One thing i would like to see with this update: countries should be willing to peace out much sooner than now. Instead, AI doesn't mind going into huge debt while very obviously in a losing war. This sometimes results in bankruptcy and then annihilation by another tag.

Also, AI's AE should be looked at again. Whenever Ottomans can eat 1/3rd of Hungary ( non co- belligerent) while at war with Bosnia, no coalitions form. Likewise when they eat half out Qara. This in my view is as much of a problem with blobby nations such as Russia and Ottomans as are their national ideas.

And why does the emperor not gain anything from demanding unlawful territory ? No opinion modifier, no authority... Nada.

 

[[TR] mcbabayaro_57]

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