EU4 - Development Diary - 3rd of October 2017

[Dsingis]

Why does Rûm have such an ugly blue colour? Wouldn't it be much prettier, if you gave them the green-grey-ish colour from CK2?

 

[Smeeved]

As is tradition, the dev diary comments have already spiralled off topic into pointless arguments

 

[Spaninq]

@DDRJake Are Janissaries only infantry? or do they spawn cavalry units as well (a la banners)?

 

[ElGranCapitan]

are you crazy? there is no chance for ottomans against austria, poland, russia or other european alliances.

you must add a land moral (10-15%) national idea to ottoman empire.

spain has 15% moral 5% discipline
france has 20% moral 5% discipline
poland has 15% moral 5% discipline
austria has 10% moral 3% discipline
ottomans has 0% moral 5% discipline

is that a joke?

i am not even talking about every war against europeans they have +10% land moral from ridiculous crusade modifier.

Ottomans never had a superb army, they had a strong elite unit in the Janissaries and then just a huge quantity of regular units that were in no way better than other nations
Spain was the first nation to have a professional army and it's tercios were legendary and were said to be unbeatable until Rocroi (1643). From that time France replaced Spain as the leading military power

Poland's NI are overpowered and should be nerfed, Austria got the little mil just for balancing reasons. Also AI Austria picks mil ideas less often.

 

[Troopperi]

I like the addition of Pasha System and New Janissary units but couple changes would be good.
To recruit Janissaries you need heathen land that has 10 dev atleast and you spend 50 mil points to recruit them , on top they take double the cost to reinforce. Pros of this unit is reduced -10 shock taken and - 10 fire damage taken. When I compare janisseries to manchu , cossacks and streltsy they look really lackluster. If 50 mil cost is what it takes to train a single janissary unit they should be much stronger but their numbers should be few , like %20 of total army at most.

The state of Bulgaria has 57 dev in 1444 ATM, so with a little developing you can get 6 Janissaries for 50 MIL, so not too expensive. OFC Bulgaria as it is now is a huge state compared to other ones in Balkans.

 

[Snake Pliskin]

@DDRJake Will the Ottoman Pasha NI be removed / replaced?

 

[MiniaAr]

Pashas I don't understand the point. As the Ottomans, you want to build as many buildings as you can. Why would you put a +20% cost on that for entire states?

 

[seriousgigi]

Crusade target isn't permanent, it is likely to switch targets, ranging from berber countries to some minors in the New World.

it is a permanent bonus against muslims. or basically ottomans.

Pashas I don't understand the point. As the Ottomans, you want to build as many buildings as you can. Why would you put a +20% cost on that for entire states?

and since the idiot AI is always making irrevelant choices such as docks or regimental camps when they decide to build.

 

[Soulburger]

Well worth waking up at seven in the morning to read.

Nice to see that Janissaries are finally their own unit rather than a uniform buff to the Ottos. Also, has a name been chosen for the new expansion? It's a bit unusual that it seems to be this late into it's dev cycle with no name given.

(Still disappointed at the seeming lack of Turkish culture changes.)

Spoiler: Cradle of Civilization just announced

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...utm_campaign=coc_eu_launcher_all_20171003_ann

 

[Anthedon]

No more Janissaries buff and stronger Mamluks. Very good.

 

[Haydar]

Rum looks nice. I always wanted to play a relatively smaller Ottoman Empire, expanding only to Ragusa, Aleppo, Crimea and Basra trading nodes, explore east from the Persian Gulf and play a tall trading empire. However with the free cultures, it feels stupid not to take Alexandria and the Arabian peninsula, so I always overdo and spoil the game for myself. Alas, unless a change in the culture group setting, Rum would be just a more challenging version of the same.

Anyway, players of the narrative are already a extinct species compared to power players, so we don't matter much I guess.

 

[Kubuini]

it is a permanent bonus against muslims. or basically ottomans.

and since the idiot AI is always making irrevelant choices such as docks or regimental camps when they decide to build.

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Papacy#Call_a_crusade

It doesn't even take close reading, just reading.

 

[durbal]

They still do pretty well in hands off games. Here's a recent one I did:
View attachment 303905

Mind the Mamluks do have a lot more teeth than the used to all the same

And Russia is still silly.

 

[romothecus]

They still do pretty well in hands off games. Here's a recent one I did:
View attachment 303905

Mind the Mamluks do have a lot more teeth than the used to all the same

austrian... maghreb...

 

[seriousgigi]

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Papacy#Call_a_crusade

It doesn't even take close reading, just reading.

well i mostly see that 10% moral modifiers in the battle because curia controller usually declares crusade on AI ottomans. and it isn't about the casus belli. lets say if AI ottos fight against poland with conquest podolia casus belli poland still gets 10% land moral regardless that casus belli.

and since none of the crusades gone successfull against ottomans what is the point of giving them 10% moral?

those moral boosted crusaders still lost the battles of nikopolis and varna in 1396, 1444 respectively.

you are right about it lasts until absolutism age.

 

[omar44]

I've never played with a Turkish Beylik before, what does the decision "State Firearm Regiments" do?

 

[Dakka]

No longer a countrywide boon for all units, the Janissaries are now special elite units.

Finally. Good. Hopefully this will make the Ottoman military a bit more akin to history.

 

[antonkaiser16]

Hello! I have a suggestion. You should add the "Latin Empire" as a formable nation by Naxos and athenia. That might increase depth and those nations would be played more often. It would also be cool if Venice coult release that new

nation!


foramble nation by Athenia,naxos need province constantinopel
change to Empire
New Ideas and Ambitions
5 years +2 Unrest greece Province
Change captial to constantinople

Core Province Latin empire
Edirne

historcial friends venecia and frace

LEideas = {
Traditions = {
missionary_strength= 2
merchant = 1
}
Ambition = {
Discipline = 10
}


teachings_from_adrianopel = {
/

combat_strength_for_cavalry= 10
}
legacy_of_the_cursaders = {
/

Moral = 5
Fort_defense = 15
}
Foreign_contacts = {
/

Diplomatic_reputation = 1
}
city_of_earthly_desire = {
/
Yearly prestige = 1
}
/
legitimität = 1
}
latin_landgrab = {

core_cost = -15
}
New_Colonie = {
/"

Culture_conversion_cost = -15
}​

achivment
Heinrich Heriate
As Latin Empire hold Greece

The Latin kaiserreich was a crusader state proclaimed in 1204 after the 4th crusade.
it existed until 1261 and was involved in constant wars during that time

 

[bbqftw]

Well by their neighbors I mean:

• The newly buffed super Russia who as we all know has been doing amazing (who currently out quality and out quantity Ottomans with these changes.)
• Poland who... I mean we all know what Polish NIs are.
• Black Army Hungary (the AI might not know how to abuse it, but in MP black army is amazing)
• The new Persia with those QQ ideas (35% cav combat with government + traditions...)
• I guess their NIs are fair to Mamluks/Austria, but wouldn't it be easier to just finally buff the Mamluk/Austrian NIs (military wise)?

I guess I expected the Janissaries to be 10% discipline. -10% shock/fire damage is great, but at 2x reinforce that's quite a hit. And 50 mil to draw them up. Ottoman ideas without Janissaries are weaker than other Tier 1 powers (other than Austria) with their saving grace being primarily the core creation cost.

I guess from a MP perspective I'm not really seeing the Ottomans having much teeth. The 50 mil to raise janissaries as well as rather weak buff compared to it's cost means that I think most Ottoman players will prefer to just get tech 4 and 5 faster, then getting mil ideas, than trying to raise Janissaries. Unlike Streltsy/Cossacks who just pop out of nowhere and have no real cost the Janissaries have a real cost, as well as the disaster meaning you can't mainline your entire infantry with them. Then their mil ideas are discipline and cav combat, but the Janissaries are infantry.

I suppose if they don't take manpower to reinforce they have an advantage. That'd be one thing.

Looking at the screenshot I'm a little torn because having super powerful Ottomans (again, they do need a nerf right now) was sort of a mainstay of EU4. Removing all their cores, removing the janissary buff, buffing all their neighbors (literally all 4 of the relevant ones, mamluks persia russia hungary) means I doubt we're going to see a super powerful Ottos. I suspect Russia is going to be the undisputed new world power for many patches.

Let me summarize my argument in this way: Any nation with 5% discipline and 10% infantry combat will have equal military quality to the JANISSARIES. The freaking JANISSARIES.

there's still the early game punchiness of Anatolian unit group

But yeah big nerf, even if janissaries don't cost manpower to reinforce.

It also wasn't clear if you indefinitely spam them or you had to wait until the units were gone to reraise them like banners.

I could see making a 100 dev state, dumping 500 mil points to raise 100k troops instantly might be ok situationally.

 

[holyvigil]

They still do pretty well in hands off games. Here's a recent one I did:
View attachment 303905

Mind the Mamluks do have a lot more teeth than the used to all the same

We'll be keeping that achievement as it is. Although as for any new achievements involving Rûm? well, we'll see...




We are considering adding a cooldown to the action, although they do spawn at no morale, and so cannot be moved until the gain their monthly morale tick.



Correct. Forming Rum is free, Pashas and Janissary units are paid parts of the expansion.



We'll see next week.



Yes they can. It's open to non-nomadic Turkish nations. It will be no surprise that, due to the requirements to eliminate Ottomans and Byzantium, neither of those nations may form Rûm.



I see your Nice Persian overnight and raise you the hands-off Mughals of doom!

View attachment 303911

In 1.23, Persia and Mughals make more frequent appearances on the map. This one was a formation from the very ambitious Khorasan.

Exciting changes all around. But here's what I'm most excited about in this dev diary: those maps. Did you guys do a balance pass on MoH? Both of those posts look like Russia and Yarkand are taking a bite out of Ming. Did Ming get nerfed? Because I've never seen that happen in my games with the present patch. Certainly not Yarkand. Ming getting nerfed deserves a Dev Diary in itself imo.

It also makes a lot of sense that the Jamissaries are a special unit rather than every unit in the Ottoman Army