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EU4 - Development Diary - 3rd of October 2017

Good day all, today is a very exciting Tuesday, as we'll be coming to the conclusion of our EU4 Dev Clash Multiplayer Campaign, complete with trophies and congratulations to the winners and commiserations to those who did not make it to the Top 3. We'll be live over at our twitch page at the usual time of 1500 CEST.

Until then though, let's cover a few more changes we have in store in the upcoming Persia Update and it's accompanying expansion. Last week we covered changes over in Persia, so today let's look over towards Anatolia.

Firstly, let's talk the Ottoman Government. This recently introduced government type is a strong boon to the Ottoman nation, but as of the Persia Update it will be attainable for other nations too via the decision to Restore the Sultanate of Rûm.

decision.jpg


Any ambitious Turkish nation can, after wiping tactfully removing Ottomans and Byzantium from the map, take the decision to form Rûm. The requirements will also ask that they hold key provinces in the region. This will grant their nation a new name, flag, colour and National Ideas for their Sultanate of Rûm.

Rum.jpg


RUM_ideas = {
Traditions = {
manpower_recovery_speed = 0.2
land_morale = 0.1
}
Ambition= {
land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.25
}
trigger = {
tag = RUM
}
free = yes

rum_abul_fath = {
discipline = 0.05
}
"We have enemies in all directions making a strong army is a necessity for a state such as ours. Fortunately we are not a weak people. From the irregular Gazis and the Akinci raiders to the Sipahis of the Ottoman Empire the world have come to know the military might of the Turkish people. Let us build an army for an Empire, taking inspiration from wherever military competence can be found while also drawing from the strengths and experiences of those that came before us."

rum_king_of_the_east_and_west = {
core_creation = -0.20
num_accepted_cultures = 1
}
"Since the fall of Rûm the Turkish people have been divided, serving minor beys from the bosphorus to the mountains of Kurdistan. It was our duty to restore the legacy of the Seljuk Sultans of Rûm and unite the Anatolian Turks. Our ambition however must be much higher than that. The Seljuk Turks once ruled one of the greatest empires known to man, it is evident to anyone who sees our empire that the restoration of this state is now our destiny, as is the reclamation of the Roman lands that were once ruled from what is now our heartland."

rum_shahanshah = {
legitimacy = 1
}
"Rûm was not only an Anatolian state but also one that strongly honored the Persian traditions of kingship. Especially as Persia itself fell to Mongol conquerors. Under the sultans before us Persianate culture blossomed and Persian poets and scholars found patronage. Men such as Najm-al-Din Razi, Qane'i Tusi, Baha'-al-Din Walad and Rumi himself made their homes under Rûm’s protection and the Sultans themselves were versed in Persian literature and poetry.\nWe must cherish our Persian legacy as well as our Turkish and aspire to make our homeland a paragon of Persianate culture, the foremost of Islamic nations."

rum_sultan_of_rum = {
tolerance_heathen = 3
}
"The Sultans of Rûm ruled over the people of Anatolia, Muslims and Christians. It was during their reign that Islam became the dominant religion in the region but their policies accepted all subjects. Often inviting even Christians from the nearby lands to seek out the domain of Rûm. We would do well to learn from their example."

rum_sulan_al_bahrayn = {
naval_maintenance_modifier = -0.15
}
"Like the Rûm sultans of the past we must establish a strong and durable navy that can withstand both Christian pirates and the fleets of other Muslims. The ability to control and expand over the Mediterranean and protect our coastlines is going to be one of the main challenges of our Empire."

rum_sultan_al_muazzam = {
build_cost = -0.15
}
"The greatest of Sultans require grand monuments and buildings. Let us make the lands of Rûm the envy of the Islamic world, with mosques, madrasas, caravanserai, gardens, canals and palaces unlike any other. Through architectural patronage we can create an enduring and unique legacy for our dynasty."

rum_protector_of_dar_al_islam = {
global_heretic_missionary_strength = 0.03
}
"Our predecessors were always ready to defend the righteous and to combat the spread of heretical sects. So too must we do our utmost to promote the pure forms of religious worship and limit the the influence of heretical rulers who would otherwise try to seduce and mislead the faithful."
}
Click to expand...

So with Ottoman Government attainable, we also have some new toys for them to play with.

As part of the accompanying expansion, the Ottoman Government will have access to Pashas and Janissaries

Firstly Pashas. In States, a nation with Ottoman Government can assign a Pasha. This will reduce unrest and the State maintenance cost for those provinces while also raising the cost of new buildings and units from them. This will prove useful in keeping costs and revolts down in provinces far from the capital, however revoking a Pasha will result in increased unrest for 10 years.

pasha.jpg


Janissaries on the other hand, have seen some changes. No longer a countrywide boon for all units, the Janissaries are now special elite units. These can be recruited for a set cost of 50MIL from a given state. For every 10 development of heathen-faith land in a state, 1 Janissary unit will be spawned, making high-development concentrations of wrong-religion land desirable . These special units cost twice as much to reinforce but are able to withstand damage much better, taking 10% less shock and fire damage in battle. Similarly, the Janissary Decadence disaster has been altered, now to fire if a nation relies too heavily on Janissaries relative to their forcelimit.

You know I think it's not fair that we look so much at the Ottomans. For the upcoming Persia Update, it's actually the Mamluks who start in 1444 with higher development between the two. We'll take a look at what we have in store for them but that'll have to wait for next week, as there are trophies to polish for now.

See you next week!
 
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Well by their neighbors I mean:

  • The newly buffed super Russia who as we all know has been doing amazing (who currently out quality and out quantity Ottomans with these changes.)
  • Poland who... I mean we all know what Polish NIs are.
  • Black Army Hungary (the AI might not know how to abuse it, but in MP black army is amazing)
  • The new Persia with those QQ ideas (35% cav combat with government + traditions...)
  • I guess their NIs are fair to Mamluks/Austria, but wouldn't it be easier to just finally buff the Mamluk/Austrian NIs (military wise)?

I guess I expected the Janissaries to be 10% discipline. -10% shock/fire damage is great, but at 2x reinforce that's quite a hit. And 50 mil to draw them up. Ottoman ideas without Janissaries are weaker than other Tier 1 powers (other than Austria) with their saving grace being primarily the core creation cost.

I guess from a MP perspective I'm not really seeing the Ottomans having much teeth. The 50 mil to raise janissaries as well as rather weak buff compared to it's cost means that I think most Ottoman players will prefer to just get tech 4 and 5 faster, then getting mil ideas, than trying to raise Janissaries. Unlike Streltsy/Cossacks who just pop out of nowhere and have no real cost the Janissaries have a real cost, as well as the disaster meaning you can't mainline your entire infantry with them. Then their mil ideas are discipline and cav combat, but the Janissaries are infantry.

I suppose if they don't take manpower to reinforce they have an advantage. That'd be one thing.

Looking at the screenshot I'm a little torn because having super powerful Ottomans (again, they do need a nerf right now) was sort of a mainstay of EU4. Removing all their cores, removing the janissary buff, buffing all their neighbors (literally all 4 of the relevant ones, mamluks persia russia hungary) means I doubt we're going to see a super powerful Ottos. I suspect Russia is going to be the undisputed new world power for many patches.

Let me summarize my argument in this way: Any nation with 5% discipline and 10% infantry combat will have equal military quality to the JANISSARIES. The freaking JANISSARIES.
 
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Assigning a pasha should also most definitely increase local autonomy. Really hope there are also some cool events asssociated with pashas. Rebelling against you, converting cultures on their own, offering you extra taxes from a bountiful year or asking for economical support.
 
Looks great, especially the janissaries.
Speaking of Ottoman, Rum and Byzantium, I really like the new competition setup between the three « empires » (Byzantium, ottoman, and a reformable Rum).

Two suggestions :
1) Pashas look good, but it would be even better if pasha were assigned to a specific culture/annexed tag (I.e, Egyptian pasha, greek pasha, Bulgarian pasha...) rather than a simple state.
This indeed would represent the cultural autonomy granted by the ottoman government, which did explain why there were so few rebellions in the early centuries)

Would be cool too, that Byzantium get a Restore the Pentarchy achievement, rewarding players for a this difficult task to save the empire.
 
well pashas seem completely worthless/pointless

you never have revolts as ottos(outside of 1 round of seperatists) as it is. if you want players to use edicts, i'd rather you'd make them not shit rather than convoluting it further with another low-impact money-based trade-off.
 
Sad part of those last DDs is that they all show no changes to Sahel and East Africa. It's a bit strange when you look at those Islam improvements. Such a great chance to improve whole Central Africa region from Cameroon to Sudan with new provinces and new states like: Mandara Kingdom, Kingdom of Bamum, Kotoko Kingdom, Wadai, Shilluk kingdom, Tegali. Improve West Africa with some Fetishist kingdoms to balance a bit Islam and Christian influence, Nri Kingdom, Koya Kingdom, Mankessim Kingdom, Kwararafa (just look at that name, isn't it glorious?). And East Africa could use some nice changes reducing the sphere of influence of Kilwa and making some of the coastal province either ruled by natives or by small countries such as sultanate of Angoche. Oh, don't forget the Sultanate of Ndzuwani, one of those few established at Comoros, which prevented europeans and Oman from overtaking the islands.
 
On an unrelated note, I am glad you spent the last months fixing and expanding Eastern Asia and Middle East.
What next then ? A logical reasoning would suggest a deeper experience in south and Southeast Asia

More owned provinces and countries in Indonesia
Inhabited Philippines kingdoms
A more interesting experience for trade companies, especially seeing an autonomous British East India Company conquering India
 
considering this dlc changes quite a lot for the timurids, will the mughals get some love?

It seems to me that as one of the major countries in eu4 timeframe, the Mughals deserve a lot of love
 
Trin Tragula said:
They still do pretty well in hands off games. Here's a recent one I did:
View attachment 303905

Mind the Mamluks do have a lot more teeth than the used to all the same :)
Click to expand...

are you crazy? there is no chance for ottomans against austria, poland, russia or other european alliances.

you must add a land moral (10-15%) national idea to ottoman empire.

spain has 15% moral 5% discipline
france has 20% moral 5% discipline
poland has 15% moral 5% discipline
austria has 10% moral 3% discipline
ottomans has 0% moral 5% discipline

is that a joke?

i am not even talking about every war against europeans they have +10% land moral from ridiculous crusade modifier.
 
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So it's the unannounced expansion that gives the Ottoman government Pashas and Janissaries? People with just Rights of Man get neither? I take it the new expansion also unlocks the Ottoman government?
 
Okay I know I'm maybe spamming a bit much, but I'mma make one last post to try to say why the Janssaries need a DRASTIC power increase.

1. 50 mil to raise 1 janissary per 10 dev in a state. In a good state (especially early game) you're looking at 10 mil per janissary. That's... a lot. With double reinforce cost it's not like once you raise them they're good forever with no real cost (Streltsy, Cossacks, Banners.) I can't think of many situations where I'd prefer to raise Janissaries instead of taking a mil tech ahead of time or getting a mil idea. Maybe in to the late-early game once I'm locked down but how do I possibly compete with the army quality of my neighbors? If they get stack wiped it's a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR blow.

2. Historicalness. I know History isn't an argument but hear me out. Currently any nation with 5% discipline and 10% infantry combat has equal military quality to the JANISSARIES. The PREMIERE fighting force of this time period. POLAND has better infantry (just random levies!) than the Janissaries. Poland will have 10% infantry combat, 15% morale, 5% discipline. Ottoman JANISSARIES will have 5% discipline, -10% shock damage, -10% fire damage (which is effectively 10% infantry combat.)

3. Even if it was changed to 10% discipline the Janissaries would still be only equal in quality to Swedish/Prussian levies. These are EXPENSIVE EXPENSIVE troops. 2x to reinforce, at LEAST 10 mil per regiment. Remember, if they get stack wiped you're rebuilding these suckers for monarch points. Not just money, monarch points.

That's why my argument is to give the Janissaries 10% discipline, -10% shock damage taken, -10% fire damage taken. Remember that your Ottoman deathblob has received a SUBSTANTIAL nerf with no more global janissary buff. No more are you going to be taking 3:1 casualties from the Turks. At the least though, their super infantry (and again, the PREMIERE infantry of this time period) should be able to just absolutely WRECK through opponents.

Janissaries will not fill out the Ottoman army (and even if you tried, then the Janissary decadence disaster fires) and the average Ottoman soldier will be below the quality of other army's soldiers of any real nation.

Consider that even with those changes late game Prussian infantry would be superior to Janissary infantry, and Swedish infantry as well.

And if that makes them OP then simply reduce the ratio they can be in your army until you get the Janissary decadence disaster. It's really a fine system right now. Early game they're prevented from being spammed by limits to heathen dev and mil cost, and late game they're prevented from being spammed by the disaster.)
 
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Krebsig said:
Thanks for the DD. How will this affect the Rum achievement?
Click to expand...

We'll be keeping that achievement as it is. Although as for any new achievements involving Rûm? well, we'll see...


Zwireq said:
Any cooldown on the raising Janissaries interaction? Do they spawn at maximum strength? (And as such cost only 50 MIL)?
Click to expand...

We are considering adding a cooldown to the action, although they do spawn at no morale, and so cannot be moved until the gain their monthly morale tick.

Tue_p3 said:
Forming rum is free patch and rum mechanics paid?
Click to expand...

Correct. Forming Rum is free, Pashas and Janissary units are paid parts of the expansion.

Temudhun Khan said:
I hope Mamluks will have a special government type, maybe shared with the janissaries when they take over Turkey.
Click to expand...

We'll see next week.

Βασιλεύς Περικλής said:
can ak quyonlu form rum? they are of turkish culture but not a baylik
Click to expand...

Yes they can. It's open to non-nomadic Turkish nations. It will be no surprise that, due to the requirements to eliminate Ottomans and Byzantium, neither of those nations may form Rûm.

Trin Tragula said:
They still do pretty well in hands off games. Here's a recent one I did:
View attachment 303905

Mind the Mamluks do have a lot more teeth than the used to all the same :)
Click to expand...

I see your Nice Persian overnight and raise you the hands-off Mughals of doom!

hungry mughals.png


In 1.23, Persia and Mughals make more frequent appearances on the map. This one was a formation from the very ambitious Khorasan.
 
Won't the change make Janissaries quite rare, though? The bonus isn't that great and doubled reinforcement cost is a strong downside. I wonder what the ratio for Janissary Decadence is. I would suspect that it's less than 50%, maybe 40% or even 30%.
 
many People underestimate the fact how strong -10% Fire/shock dmg is , together with the army Drilling they are the only Country can gain an -20% dmg reduction.
The new janissary models have a great synergy to be a strong mid/late game force, however the Ottomans cavalary is what makes the Ottomans early game so strong not their infantry at all or the old jannisary modifier.
 
tuor149 said:
considering this dlc changes quite a lot for the timurids, will the mughals get some love?

It seems to me that as one of the major countries in eu4 timeframe, the Mughals deserve a lot of love
Click to expand...

Mughals certainly do deserve some love but they are more of an Indian phenomenon than a middle eastern one.
One has to draw the line somewhere, we've spent quite a lot of time on Everything between Egypt and Anatolia and the Hindukush this time around :)
 
I like the addition of Pasha System and New Janissary units but couple changes would be good.
To recruit Janissaries you need heathen land that has 10 dev atleast and you spend 50 mil points to recruit them , on top they take double the cost to reinforce. Pros of this unit is reduced -10 shock taken and - 10 fire damage taken. When I compare janisseries to manchu , cossacks and streltsy they look really lackluster. If 50 mil cost is what it takes to train a single janissary unit they should be much stronger but their numbers should be few , like %20 of total army at most.
For pasha system bonuses look alright except the +20 construction cost.Currently best way to use them would be building up Anatolia then sending pashas to reduce the state maintenance. I would prefer if pashas were to be sent to more distant provinces of empire. Changing building cost increase to -%15 tax income would represent decentralized nature of far away eyalets like Egypt , Iraq , Tunis etc.
 
seriousgigi said:
are you crazy? there is no chance for ottomans against austria, poland, russia or other european alliances.

you must add a land moral (10-15%) national idea to ottoman empire.

spain has 15% moral 5% discipline
france has 20% moral 5% discipline
poland has 15% moral 5% discipline
austria has 10% moral 3% discipline
ottomans has 0% moral 5% discipline

is that a joke?

i am not even talking about every war against europeans they have +10% land moral from ridiculous crusade modifier.
Click to expand...

Well, national ideas are supposed to give some flavor and uniqueness. If you start giving the same ideas to all tags, then the entire point is lost.

Also don't forget that Ottomans can get their own religion-related morale boost (+10% with full legalism)
 
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