EU4 Development Diary - 3rd March 2016

[bbqftw]

that "promote mercantilism" button might as well read "I'm an idiot"

 

[Tufto]

This seems like the best way Paradox have yet thought up for anti-blobbing against OPMs. Very good work indeed.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Members of the league having to be OPM is ridiculously restrictive. Why not restrict it by something else, for example, members can`t have enough to progress towards second tier of government? It would be far more organic and reasonable. We have this new shiny government ranking system, why not use it here?

I fully agree with this. After all in history there were Hansa offices/cities in larger countries too.

 

[wickermoon]

So Mecklenburg, one of the most important members of the Hansa, what with it having Rostock, Greifswald, Stralsund, cannot join the Hansa...what?

 

[greller]

I agree with various comments that the OPM restriction will make trade leagues rare and not particularly powerful. At the same time, I understand the instinct to prevent France from being a full-fledged member of the Hanseatic League, because that's just silly. So why not integrate with an existing mechanism, estates? OPMs (or relatively small nations) can join a trade league whole, but more importantly the trade league can be given certain cities in larger empires. From the perspective of the trade league, each city counts as a member of the league; from the perspective of the state that nominally controls that city, the trade league becomes an estate, which gives a certain bonus based on influence. Loyalty is affected by relations with other league members, and if you go to war with a trade league that controls some of your provinces you can either revoke those provinces (possibly with a siege), or their autonomy shoots up and they basically don't support your war.

This would effectively model the fact that major trade cities had a cosmopolitan character, owing loyalty to their king but also torn by connections to their overseas trading partners. It would give those large states some incentive to let the trade leagues (and associated OPMs) live, since the more powerful the trade league, the more benefit they derive from that estate. Maybe there would even be some circumstances where you could release a city that's been governed by trade league as a vassal OPM merchant republic (or it could rebel and form an independent OPM merchant republic). Make trade leagues attractive enough that you want your cities to be a part of them, but give them a danger lurking in the indeterminate future. When you give that much autonomy and wealth to a group that isn't completely loyal to the state, there's always a potential downside.

 

[Morricane]

Trade leagues sound like they'd be okay on paper, but then you factor in that the whole union takes just a single diplo slot, so trying to invade an OPM inside a union would bring you to war with the entire union and the other allies the OPM would have. This could potentially result in Denmark declaring on Lubeck and suddenly fighting 9 OPMs and 3 other allies of Lubeck, not counting the ones that'd get pulled in via declaring war on the empire from outside. This doesn't sound sane.

Well, it might at least help "some" parts of the world (HRE *cough*) to retain a number of princes (ie. stay in its intended shape) for a bit longer than right now.

 

[fred.erick]

"Naval combat changes" - now that sounds promising.

 

[Grand Historian]

this expansion would be a great opportunity to add a small province occupying part of the coast of Zeta, to represent the Albania Veneta concentrated around Cattaro until 1797.

(i know you guys are hesitant to split Albania, and that makes sense considering how soon into the game's timeframe Durazzo was conquered by the Ottos, but as Cattaro remained in Venetian hands until the very end of the Serene Republic, representing it with a province would be a really nice touch.)

Despite Durrazzo being conquered early on by the Ottomans in history doesn't mean its fall has to exclude it from the game (just as Byzantium doesn't has to fall, France doesn't have to win the HYW, etc.); splitting Albania would further help represent the proper extent of Venetian power and finally give Albanian a chance of being accepted by someone (I actually say it should be divided into thirds for good measure - and cleaner borders). As a visual example of how this could work;

 

[Zsar1]

How does a trade league produce new OPMs? Especially in parts of the world which start with none.
How do trade leagues police their own OPMs - which would automatically leave once they take a province (from another member)?

What is a player's long-time motivation to stay in a trade league if not the leader?

...

Do overseas possessions count as provinces for the purpose of determining trade league membership?

 

[mursolini]

So basically:
Oh. People who take control of the defined trade nodes which don't change do well, since that means they get money.

I don't get it. Why have a system where it's good to own a trade node for the express purpose of getting more money and then punishing the countries that play smart and get that trade power?

Presumably, to force nations to invest into heavy fleet, which is countering privateers.

 

[MiniaAr]

Well, I think trade league gameplay could be very interesting. I mean, even if you stay small and an OPM, going to war to release countries like Danzig, Gotland, Northumberland, etc... so that you can invite them in your league of OPMs is definitively not boring.

The issue though is that (AI) league members should be a lot inclined NOT to take land for themselves in wars (same as Free cities I'd say). Otherwise, it would be most frustrating as people already pointed out.

I kind of agree with the OPM/2PM debate, Mecklenburg should be allowed to join the hanseatic league somehow.

Also, I don't think league mechanism should be part of the Mare Nostrum expansion, but an update of the Res Publica one. Like the New Random New World was linked to Conquest of Paradise and not The Cossacks.

 

[Em Ay Ef]

in reality, 99% of players will not use it, cause in the first 50 years most OPMs are gone

trade leagues may help slow down OPM disappearance, just like imperial protection over free cities does.

 

[abcdgh]

so Mecklenburg can't be a member of Hansa? sad

 

[noon261]

So it seems that only Europe will have the trade leagues, and only in the Lubeck region too unless venice/genoa are reduced to OPM

The league leader does not need to be an OPM.

 

[Freudia]

This seems like the best way Paradox have yet thought up for anti-blobbing against OPMs. Very good work indeed.

You seem to be misinformed on what will happen. Players will just declare on the OPM's ally and full annex the OPM through that, as they already do vs free cities.

 

[Maria Theresa]

Also 200 diplo power for 1% mercantilism especially now that it has a downside is just laughable. I'd like to see anyone ever actually click this button, i doubt we'll see that.

 

[Tarskin]

@Johan Will Lubeck (or any other OPM that is the leader of a trade league) also get CBs to unify the trade league into a single country (to recreate the Hansa of previous game version)?

However, I am getting quite excited about this expansion with the naval & trade focus

 

[DominusNovus]

- Glad there is finally a downside to mercantalism. Adam Smith is relieved.

- What happens when a trade league member gets a second province? It seems to me that 2-4 province minors would still be interested in such leagues.

- If its limited to OPMs, what do we have that can help expand it? Client states are an option in the late game, but, say Venice wants to expand into Egypt. Its pretty much the standard conquest only.

- Can subjects of the league leader join?

- Can the leader vassalize or annex any members?

- How moddable is this feature?

 

[MacDuffin]

Worth the wait, the trade leagues look super cool!
As I understand it, this means the leader can be as large as desired? Or do all merchant republics stay the same size?

 

[Guidrion]

I like it but shouldn't there be more releasable OPM like Danzig, Krakow, Gotland and so on? It could be an interesting strategy for trade league leaders to seek to balkanize regions to grow stronger. Some areas could realistically see city states rise if the right conditions were met: Catalonia, North Africa, even southern France.

I also hope we get something about the Corsair Republic of Salé in Morocco.