EU4 Development Diary - 3rd March 2016

[Canadian_95_RTS]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet (too long, didn't read) but I think trade leagues should be tied to development, not number of provinces. It makes a lot more sense, while still letting small nations join and leaving out the large ones.

 

[bbqftw]

Like I replied above, if the alternative is spending 200 diplomatic points to raise production three times, then 1% mercantilism might be worth it based on the math.

Can you do the math to figure out if it's worth it? And if you can't does that make you "an idiot"?

you can raise production 3 times and I can diplo-annex 25-50 development and assign it to burghers, we can see who ends up ahead in this

 

[Incompetent]

I like the idea of trade leagues, although we'll have to see how the concept plays out in practice. Could be pretty fun for Lübeck especially, but a lack of suitable OPMs is likely to be a problem everywhere except the HRE. I guess the best league members are HRE Free Cities, as they tend to develop like crazy and already have an incentive not to expand.

Incidentally, doubled MR production bonus when they are also giving you some of their trade power is potentially extremely strong. Usually, getting the most out of that bonus is a balancing act, because the more you take over provinces to increase your market share, the fewer provinces are left to benefit from the bonus. With league members, you can have your cake and eat it. If you can somehow persuade league members to remain OPMs, a relatively small number of development-bloated members producing decent trade goods could actually earn you quite a bit of income, certainly far more than you'd get from simply annexing those OPMs near the start of the game.

 

[Frederick_Will]

you can raise production 3 times and I can diplo-annex 25-50 development and assign it to burghers, we can see who ends up ahead in this

depending on the time of the game and ideas you could probably raise production 5-10 times on a province. I would rather mass culture convert cheap lands than spend 200 dip for 1% of mercantilism for the money and other benefits.

I can see them knocking it down to 100 or 150 dip points and still thinking that is worth it. i am not sure how someone thought that 200 dip points as a starting point was a good idea. especially when mercantilism gives corruption.

 

[TheDungen]

So no mechanics for centralising the Hansa to a proper nation? =(

 

[Susanna]

Trade leagues sound cool. Is this a feature of the patch, or of the expansion?

 

[Wilson Ciao]

How this trade leagues is going to work? Right now 50/70 years in the game there are no OPMs anymore and why would you create a trade league with an OPM if you can just conquer them? 50% trade power vs 100% trade power + taxes + production + manpower

Well, for one, you can take their 50% trade power + a small bonus to trade steering and go conquer someone else. Use that AE and admin elsewhere and get back to them if you really feel like they'd be better off inside your country. Plus, wouldn't the production boost they get from being in the trade league also increase the value of the node a little bit?

There's an opportunity cost for everything.

 

[Archduke Von Nicholstien]

this expansion would be a great opportunity to add a small province occupying part of the coast of Zeta, to represent the Albania Veneta concentrated around Cattaro until 1797.

(i know you guys are hesitant to split Albania, and that makes sense considering how soon into the game's timeframe Durazzo was conquered by the Ottos, but as Cattaro remained in Venetian hands until the very end of the Serene Republic, representing it with a province would be a really nice touch.)

I always felt that the balkans were so misrepresented! The provinces are too big, and Carinolia is Slovene! It simply is underdeveloped!

 

[Twoflower]

How this trade leagues is going to work? Right now 50/70 years in the game there are no OPMs anymore and why would you create a trade league with an OPM if you can just conquer them? 50% trade power vs 100% trade power + taxes + production + manpower

One purpose of the trade league feature might be making OPMs more durable I'm not saying I expect it to work, just that this might be the purpose.
As for trade leagues making sense for a player, bear in mind that most potential OPM members are HRE countries. If you are one of the merchant republics in or next to the HRE at the start of the game, I think adding some OPMs to your trade league peacefully might sometimes be better than the AE for expansion within the HRE (or, in the case of Venice, Ragusa and Novgorod, a lot better than having to fight Austria and its allies because you are attacking a HRE member).

Just as an idea, I think would be really nice if there was some way for trade leagues to add the Burgher estate of bigger countries, since this is what actually happened with the Hanseatic cities in larger HRE principalities (Brandenburg, Mecklenburg, Pomerania etc.), in Sweden, Norway and England. The King of Sweden or the Duke of Mecklenburg did not join the Hansa, it was rather some of their more autonomous (i.e., in game terms, cities assigned to the control of the Burgher estate).

 

[aqvamare]

yeah, so big blue blob eats one of my trade league members through selling him low devolpopment province....after this, I try to force him to release my old member with trade league wargoal. Somethink which will happen in Multiplayer games.

But i cannot:
1.) No of my member joins a offensive war, so me is helpless
2.) even if i get other allies and win this war, with trade league wargoal, i cannot force release my old member out of big blue blob

Moral, I still need to blob as merchant republic and have to make sure, that all my OPMs have direct border with me, so that i can help them in bad times.

Add that you can call your trade league into a offensive war, if you have 30-40 favor with your members.

 

[clemalesia]

I'm waiting ! When can we get this ? It's a dlc or update ? Which prize if it's a dlc ?

 

[TheDungen]

First of, the trade dispute CB should allow you to release countries.

Secondly, have you considered breakign up trad eideas into mercenttile (mercantilistic) ideas (in adm)and free trade ideas (in dip)?

Thirdly perhaps a hard cap on joinging merchant leagues is not the way to go. After all the teutonic order was part of the hansa and it most certainly wasn't an OPM. Perhaps instead of just OMPS countries can be part of the league if they are smaller than half the development of the merchant league?
Or perhaps a cap isn't the way to go at all, perhaps you could model the benefits in such a way that the benfits only outweigh the penatlies for smaller nations (preferably something with not having to spend money on a fleet of their own).

 

[Blanchard33]

It would be great if this trade league mechanic was not hardcoded to a certain government type like federations are to native american governments and their improvement mechanics. If the member province size limit was moddable in the defines file, that would be nice as well. Or simply replace it with development like others have stated. It would then become a useful defensive alliance mechanic to use in mods.

 

[Itchel]

Looks great I was wondering when and how The Hansa would be returning. A little bit more motivation to remain an OPM.

I'm also glad that "Mercantilism" has some drawbacks now in EU4, in the form of "corruption", as it does in real life. Mercantilism did ruin the Spainish Empire.

I Believe that lacking merchantilism should grant small benefits... such as lower unrest and events which improve your provinces development.

 

[wingren013]

Why not make it a development cap rather than a province cap?

 

[Alerias]

200 DIP for Mercantilism isnt worth it, especially since its nerfed by tackling Corruption on top.

Better also increase the positive effects of Merc if you want anyone to ever pay precious bird mana for it.

 

[KhanXLT]

Yes!
I'm so excited for this, I recently set up my paradox account after having the game for a few years so this will the the first expansion I'll be discussing online with the rest of the community!

Welcome to the forums!

 

[TheDungen]

After seeing the twitch stream I have an idea for how to limit the size of the members of the members in the trade leagues without having a hard cap:
No cap on who can join (or stay) but you only get the extra production bonus on the same number of provinces as the merchant republic in charge of the league have (starting with the most developed one, or perhaps the one with the most income), so say that melkenburg joins the hansa, lübeck is a OPM merchant republic so mecklenburg will only get the bonus on it's capital. So a large nations like say sweden will lose a lot by joining since they give up a lot of tradepower to the tradeleague for a production boost on very few provinces. While smaller ones will be getting more out of it for their investment.

Also it'd be nice if during a trade dispute war a leader of a trade league (and perhaps the emperor too) could force his enemy to release a province controlled by the burghers as an independent custom tag (kind of how cossacks do when they rebel) republic.

 

[BoomKidneyShot]

200 DIP for Mercantilism isnt worth it, especially since its nerfed by tackling Corruption on top.

Better also increase the positive effects of Merc if you want anyone to ever pay precious bird mana for it.

Especially since the events which give diplo for merc are only 25 points, IIRC.

 

[Siggerad]

Hmm i read the post and watch the DDjake video in twich, and looks great for people who love play with merchant republic. I like colonial nations, and war-conquest nations, the limit 20 provinces is not my style of playing so is not interesting for me, i hope this mechanic dont count as a mayor feature.