EU4 - Development Diary - 31st of March 2020

[Dewey_Master]

I haven't posted in forever, but I have to echo the voices expressing confusion over placing the vassal swarm in the centralized path. What could be less centralized than Austria leading 100 princes into armed conflict? The Reichskrieg seems like a reasonable endgame for the decentralized path. It also seems like a way to keep something akin to the vassal swarm but in a way that is less OP than before: that is, princes would not be vassals, player would have to regenerate IA between uses, there would be complications for a WC victory.

Right now, the centralized model provides better decentralization benefits than the decentralized path and still has the magic full integration button waiting for a 1-tag at game's end. The centralization model should focus on benefits to the Emperor. -10% CCC is a good and thematic boon. Hereditary monarchy also makes sense. Why not include "+n States" so Emperor could make better use of the expansive lands now under their direct control (the benefits of this tier should probably be kept as permanent modifiers after unfiication)?

As it is, what you are calling the "centralized path" is the vassal swarm path.

 

[SPAMbuca]

Someone convince me this is not a simple and dramatic improvement:

1) Decentralized remains unchanged
2) Centralized remains unchanged, except that you skip right past Revoke and got to Renovatio

Like most people I assumed Decentralized would be vassal swarm and Centralized would be form HRE. Of course, this would have left vassal swarm as superior, and everyone would have gone for this, unless they wanted a one-tag WC.

The novel concept of Reichskrieg is a game changer, however. This enables Decentralized to have vassal-swarm type offensive fire power, but with a few key limitations. 1) they are NOT your vassals, and you will NOT get a WC. 2) they are not your vassals, and you will not get their trade or income benefits

Now imagine that Centralized does NOT have a vassal swarm, just Renovatio. Now we have a REAL decision. Do I want to inherit HRE and get new NI and missions and all sorts of bonuses on way to WC? Or do I decentralize to get the more powerful Reichskrieg, but they are not truly my vassals, and I'd need to work really hard (later revoking reforms and stuff) to try to WC.

This presents an actual balanced choice!!!

Balance wise I think it's the better option. Because at the moment the situation seems to be like this:


Option A: Subjugate every prince in the HRE. You can now add new ones with a new cb as well. You get their trade power with the subject interaction, more additional income, more additional forcelimit, a vassal swarm that joins you every war without cost.


Option B: Pay 25 IA to have the HRE join your war once. No extra bonusses like mentioned before.


Option B would not add anything new in my opinion gameplay wise. You'd just get less benefits instead of different benefits, as the Reichskrieg seems to be simply a regular war after revoking the priviligia.


I currently don't feel it's really an option to go for anything but the centralized path, unless you want to handicap yourself. In that case, you might as well decide not to go past reform x.

 

[YeP1337]

Will there be an actual incentive to unite the HRE? Any National Ideas? Something? Because as it stands right now, using the vassal swarm is far more effective than uniting the Empire. You actually become weaker as a result of uniting it.

 

[RichardOlcese]

Will there be an actual incentive to unite the HRE? Any National Ideas? Something? Because as it stands right now, using the vassal swarm is far more effective than uniting the Empire. You actually become weaker as a result of uniting it.

Yeah, but the sweet, sweet sensation of having unified it! My God!

 

[FantasticFwoosh]

Regarding forcing into the HRE, is it strictly still within the European super-region or has the new CB's conintental circumstances meant it can be stretched outside the borders?

You can become a HRE emperor by afar by strong-arming electors and being the right egible religions (with peace of westphalia, only the puppeteered vassals are required), so it would not be unfeasable to take a strong nation like the Ottomans in Asia Minor (beyond the HRE's usual reach), and then start breaking off expendible opm tags to swell with additional middle eastern princes around your capital.

 

[IVM.Firefly]

You are wrong.

They were always part of the Empire.

Not sure where you get the idea that they werent part of the empire.

But let me explain this as a Frisian.

Frisia was exempt from Feudalism, they killed their last few counts and dukes, while Holland. Technically part of Frisia started to stylize themselves as Counts of Frisia, but this changed into Counts of Holland.

The rest of the frisian lands, the Fryske Freiheit (Frisian Freedom), gained this privilege, with a forged document saying Charlemagne had given it to them. Most emperors respected it or didnt feel the need to deal with it.

In the 14th and 15th century, there was an increasing conflict between many chieftains in the frisian freedom, resulting in a consolidation of power in East Frisia under multiple dynasties.

This infighting let to foreign powers starting to once again eye up Frisia. With both the count of Holland, duke of Saxony and Duke of Burgundy interested.

In the end The Duke of Saxony was given the land, but sold it around 1512 with the guelders wars in full effect.

This all had to do with the rising power of Charles the V and in the end he would be succesful and add all the lowlands into a seperate 17 provinces.

East Frisia went its own way, but the current ruler wasnt recognized as its count, this happened in about 1470, finally making the split real.

So, no Frisia was always part of the empire, the count of East Frisia was simply not recognized.

That is basically what I am trying to represent - I want their land, including East Frisia to be part of the HRE, but not be princes within it. Frisian freedom, including East Frisia were to my knowledge completely independent of the empire. It seems fitting that a player Emperor should try to assert the imperial control over Frisia. How can a tag devoid of feudalism be considered an HRE member state and vote in the Diet? Free to convince me otherwise. It looks like you misunderstood my position.

 

[Pbhuh]

That is basically what I am trying to represent - I want their land, including East Frisia to be part of the HRE, but not be princes within it. Frisian freedom, including East Frisia were to my knowledge completely independent of the empire. It seems fitting that a player Emperor should try to assert the imperial control over Frisia. How can a tag devoid of feudalism be considered an HRE member state and vote in the Diet? Free to convince me otherwise. It looks like you misunderstood my position.

They didnt vote in the diet, but there is no real mechanic to make tags not vote in it, but still be part of the HRE.

They were beyond a doubt part of the HRE. They simply didnt follow feudalism. Similar to Dithmarshen.

The Emperor "protected" Frisia. As it was often stated that Frisia was only beholdant to the emperor.

The killing of Arnulf, Count of Holland in 993 is the first sign of the Frisian freedom. This Frisian count was killed in a rebel attempt to compel obedience from his subjects. The murder of another Count Henri de Gras in 1101 is regarded as the de facto beginning of the Frisian freedom. This freedom was recognized by the Holy Roman Emperor William II on November 3, 1248. He did this after the Frisians aided in the siege of the city of Aachen. Later, Emperor Louis IV repealed these rights and granted Friesland to the Count of Holland. In 1417 the status of the Frisians was reaffirmed by Emperor Sigismund.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_freedom

 

[RichardOlcese]

If the player unifies the Empire, and some of the 13 incidents hasn't fired yet, will it fire anyway?

 

[RichardOlcese]

Since there are some more countries withing Germany/HRE, will the amount of Imperial Authority each prince provides be reduced? Won't it be too easy for the Emperor otherwise?

 

[RichardOlcese]

How is the seat province for the Diet chosen?

 

[Soranya]

Is the "Renovatio Imperii" Reform still undesireable from a Powerplay point of view?

 

[holyvigil]

Personally I am happy that centralized remains the same.

Though centralized could use a defensive war buff. imo a fully reformed out decentralized HRE should be near impregnable.

 

[mclemente]

It seems you haven't fixed the problem that a newly elected Emperor has nearly no manpower and money to build armies up to its force limits, nor does it have the income to sustain it, while former Emperor keeps its inflated manpower and armies (even though it'll probably need to get rid of the armies). Good luck hiring and maintaining 20+ units.

 

[swagmeister]

So if you start as England and become elected emperor are you forced into being a member state and getting down ranked into a duchy? I would prefer that no imperial authority was gained from provinces if the desire is to balance imperial authority gain around the idea of having as many princes as possible.

 

[Execute Order 66]

Edit: Since I keep getting asked this no matter how many times I try to clarify....
You do not get 10 IA for adding provinces to the empire, that's only for when a new prince joins the empire. You do not get IA for adding provinces to the Empire.

I'm not sure if this has been asked and answered already... I like to play wide and most recently as Russia I was elected emperor, any chance we can add provinces into the HRE via area or state rather than each province individually?

 

[YetiBandito]

As Emperor there is no way to get additional IA by adding provinces.

You do get 10 IA if a free country decides to join the HRE.

There no longer is any easy/cheesy/gamey way to farm IA to do early revokes!

 

[Cancerofthehead]

Since there are some more countries withing Germany/HRE, will the amount of Imperial Authority each prince provides be reduced? Won't it be too easy for the Emperor otherwise?

Not getting IA for adding provinces to the empire is a huge neef to Imperial authority gain and along with there being more reforms (unless I fail at counting) that will offset a lot of the IA gain from more princes, free cities, and easier to enforce peace.

 

[SPAMbuca]

Would this work for multiplayer by the way?

1 player is emperor, another player any other tag. Player 2 leaves the empire, player 1 forces him back into the empire. Rinse - repeat, depending on the truce timer you revoke in record time as you rake in 10 IA each time.

 

[Execute Order 66]

As Emperor there is no way to get additional IA by adding provinces.

You do get 10 IA if a free country decides to join the HRE.

There no longer is any easy/cheesy/gamey way to farm IA to do early revokes!

I’m not sure if you meant this directed to my question, but I’ll reply anyways. Mainly for map painting and creating (nice?) borders rather than exploit!

 

[grotaclas]

Will the Casus Belli only be enabled for nations small enough to be added, so one doesn't have to manually do total dev math before declaring war?

Even so, you could theoretically get in a situation where you are able to declare a war with this Casus Belli, but due to expired modifiers or reduced admin efficiency, not actually be able to demand it in the peace treaty due to the warscore cost going over 100%?

You don't have to do the math. You can just hover over the warscore cost in the province window of one of their provinces. That will tell you the total warscore cost for the whole country. And if they are close to 100% you could make sure that you don't lose admin efficiency before the peace deal.